1938 Superman. The One To Adapt?

[The Batman]

Siegel/Shuster Superman should absolutely be used for Supes' characterization. Not to mention that Birthright's Superman is in many ways an updated version of the S & S character.

Its time to stop portraying Supes as this "Big Blue Boy Scout". He should absolutely be the standard of how to behave, but he dosent have to be squeaky clean. Nor was he inteded to be.

[TruerToTheCore]

I've actually said this for years.

[Slugster]

Superman is about the old American way not todays American way.
When people had Morals, Values and Respect.
and the dollar didnt mean everything.
This World is as corrupt and greedy as it could be and no one cares as long as it dont effect them personally (APATHY)
WE NEED SUPERMAN MORE TODAY THEN YESTERDAY
We need HOPE and and a feeling of a future.
The old Superman was less of a boy scout and more of a Thats enough!

[NotFadeAway]

Originally Posted by Slugster

Superman is about the old American way not todays American way.
When people had Morals, Values and Respect.
and the dollar didnt mean everything.
This World is as corrupt and greedy as it could be and no one cares as long as it dont effect them personally (APATHY)
WE NEED SUPERMAN MORE TODAY THEN YESTERDAY
We need HOPE and and a feeling of a future.
The old Superman was less of a boy scout and more of a Thats enough!

Some good dialouge can be taken from this post actually.

Superman:

"I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. No, not the American way of today, not the ways of the world. A world soaked in apathy, apathy that is in place of needed empathy. I stand for the old American way. I don't care about money, but values. The mighty dollar means nothing to me. I don't advocate greed, but morals. Corruption shows a lack of respect for the person beside you on the street, at the store, the person who has a child born in the room next to yours. Enough is enough, what this world needs is hope. And I've taken it upon myself to provide that hope. My life, my meaning, the reason I am here is just that. I'll never stop, and it's not like anyone could actually, stop me..................

Was that too preachy"?

Lois:

"Well, yeah! But it's a good message, gets your point across".

Superman:

"Kids probably won't think I'm that cool, will they"

Lois:

"Cool is really overrated. Infact, whats cool is really part of the problem nowadays".

Superman:

"True. Well, that bodes well for me".

Lois:

"It really does".

[Catman]

Originally Posted by Slugster

Superman is about the old American way not todays American way. When people had Morals, Values and Respect.

You're joking, right? Superman was created in the middle of the Great Depression. It was a time where people were struggling and in their desperation urban crime became a serious threat for the first time. Why else do you think that Superman was so tough on crime? Why else do you think that Batman's origin involves his parents being murdered by a thug? It was an issue that people were facing in the 1930s. In a way, nothing has changed. Morals, values, and respect is something we've always lacked.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Cousin Itt

I'm all for Superman kicking some ass like he used to.

Not only that but I'd love to see the more violent sarcastic Superman who looks for justice but not as a boy-scout.

[manofsteel4life]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Not only that but I'd love to see the more violent sarcastic Superman who looks for justice but not as a boy-scout.

i think if people saw this in the movie, everyone would probably be standing up and clapping....ofcourse it would probably be more of the women.........that would really make him cool, and relatable

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by NotFadeAway

Some good dialouge can be taken from this post actually.

Superman:

"I stand for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. No, not the American way of today, not the ways of the world. A world soaked in apathy, apathy that is in place of needed empathy. I stand for the old American way. I don't care about money, but values. The mighty dollar means nothing to me. I don't advocate greed, but morals. Corruption shows a lack of respect for the person beside you on the street, at the store, the person who has a child born in the room next yours. Enough is enough, what this world needs is hope. And I've taken it upon myself to provide that hope. My life, my meaning, the reason I am here is just that. I'll never stop, and it's not like anyone actually, stop me..................

Was that too preachy"?

Lois:

"Well, yeah! But it's a good message, gets your point across".

Superman:

"Kids probably won't think I'm that cool, will they"

Lois:

"Cool is really overrated. Infact, whats cool is really part of the problem nowadays".

Superman:

"True. Well, that bodes well for me".

Lois:

"It really does".

I love this.

Originally Posted by manofsteel4life

i think if people saw this in the movie, everyone would probably be standing up and clapping....ofcourse it would probably be more of the women.........that would really make him cool, and relatable

Absolutely.

[GreenKToo]

I'd like to see him either beat the crap out of, or scare the crap out of, an abusive father....there is way too much of that going on nowadays.

[JamalYIgle]

Originally Posted by Catman

You're joking, right? Superman was created in the middle of the Great Depression. It was a time where people were struggling and in their desperation urban crime became a serious threat for the first time. Why else do you think that Superman was so tough on crime? Why else do you think that Batman's origin involves his parents being murdered by a thug? It was an issue that people were facing in the 1930s. In a way, nothing has changed. Morals, values, and respect is something we've always lacked.

Superman aslo wasn't able to juggle aircraft carriers and walk on the surface of the moon for giggles. The idea of Superman tossing around wife beaters and involving himself in busting local politicians in an anathema to how much the character has evolved or the last 75 years. While going after abusive people is a cute idea in the abstract, it makes him a coward to do so. Even worse it makes him a bully lording his power over others. Is that how you solve abuse? in the real world often times when an abuser is put in that position his initial victim winds up dead, that's a statistical fact. In the world of the comics it also feeds into the two main ideas that Superman constantly runs into:

1. The inability to save everyone all the time: he's not going to always be there to stop a threat. Most criminals real and imagined become repeat offenders including cases of abuse.
2. Solving other peoples problems. where does it stop? Why doesn't he fix the economy, or stop dictators in recognized governments, or wars? Why doesn't Superman have the time to take my grandmother to her dialysis appointments in Yorba Linda?

Superman's concerns should be the greater good, those problems that can't be handled by normal means, not stopping purse snatchers and beating up abusive drunks.

[afan]

A scene involving a despicable criminal act including Superman's intervention that does not feature a humorous tone ala Reeve's "Bad vibrations?", but rather as NotFadeAway suggests features the demeanor of John Wayne, would be welcome. However this type of action would not carry an entire film. As a vignette, perfect, but the meat of the story needs to be epic in scope!

[El Payaso]

When I said I loved that wifebeater scene I meant Superman's personality more than the situation itself.

[Catman]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

When I said I loved that wifebeater scene I meant Superman's personality more than the situation itself.

We could always compromise. Clark Kent could be the one defending housewives. He's not gonna use his powers, so it could be a fair fight. I just think it's important for Clark Kent to do SOMETHING. In the movie world, Clark Kent has never been a real character. He was just the goofy disguise. It's time to change that. If there's one thing that Lois & Clark and Smallville got right it's that they gave CK the proper respect.

[KyleDW2]

Originally Posted by Kurosawa

It's also proactive things that he would do-smashing up slums and forcing the Government to build better housing, destroying car plants that made unsafe vehicles, making a gun runner go and fight in the war that he was encouraging and profiteering from...not all legal, but all just, at least to him.

"Not legal, but just." That right there is what is wrong with that approach with Superman. The early Superman stories pretty much worked under that banner. Superman didn't take no guff and didn't afraid of anything. He tore down a slum and fought the army because he felt like it. That's not what someone with Superman's power should do. If a guy who can't be killed begins making his own laws, even if its for the public good at the time, that's the beginnings of a dangerous and slippery slope.

I have a theory about the two big comic book universes. DC's population loves and trusts their heroes, while Marvel is fearful of them. Why is that? Because DC started off with Superman, a guy who upheld the law and didn't wear a mask, who fought for truth and justice and the American way, who started off as Superboy and earned his place in the public's hearts. Marvel, meanwhile, had the Human Torch, an android who could kill you by standing next to you and Namor, a psychotic Atlantean prince with the world's worst temper. That's the difference. Superman earns people's trust. That's what he has to do. And in order to do that, he has to be hard, but he also has to work strictly within the limits of the law. That's why post-Crisis Lex gets away with so much. Superman knows how bad he is, but so long as Lex works the legal system in the way he knows how to, Superman can't touch him. That's the Superman that earned the public's trust. He's the guy who would gladly let Lex go free rather than turn into what Lex thinks he is: someone who wants to impose his own morality on the world.

[NotFadeAway]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

I love this.

Thank you. It was off the cuff, but reflects the kind of dialouge I want to see in the movie. I'm a big believer in the power of dramedy in comic book/sci-fi/fantasy/adventure material.

Originally Posted by afan

A scene involving a despicable criminal act including Superman's intervention that does not feature a humorous tone ala Reeve's "Bad vibrations?", but rather as NotFadeAway suggests features the demeanor of John Wayne, would be welcome. However this type of action would not carry an entire film. As a vignette, perfect, but the meat of the story needs to be epic in scope!

Your right, it could not carry the film alone. But like you said, a vignette would be nice. Have you seen the original Robocop? In the film, after Robocop comes online he is sent out on his first night in Detroit. What follows is a series of non-related crimes that Robocop stops while showing off all his abilities. I would do something similiar with Superman following his debut in suit. While it might draw ire, I'm having Superman stop a terrorist attack myself.

Originally Posted by Catman

We could always compromise. Clark Kent could be the one defending housewives. He's not gonna use his powers, so it could be a fair fight. I just think it's important for Clark Kent to do SOMETHING. In the movie world, Clark Kent has never been a real character. He was just the goofy disguise. It's time to change that. If there's one thing that Lois & Clark and Smallville got right it's that they gave CK the proper respect.

Clark Kent would do his part.......through writing.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by NotFadeAway

Thank you. It was off the cuff, but reflects the kind of dialouge I want to see in the movie. I'm a big believer in the power of dramedy in comic book/sci-fi/fantasy/adventure material.

Me too. But it's an extremely dangerous way. Comedy in superhero movies. They try it every time and I have seen them fail big time every single time with a few exceptions.

[Kurosawa]

Although Superman in the movie shouldn't be fighting the same level of crime as the early version, he really could use some of his cockiness, attitude and confidence.

[Superwoman Prime]

Superman was the original wise-cracking superhero.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Kurosawa

Although Superman in the movie shouldn't be fighting the same level of crime as the early version, he really could use some of his cockiness, attitude and confidence.

Absolutely what I was saying.

I'd love to see that Superman.

Originally Posted by Superman Prime

Superman was the original wise-cracking superhero.

Yes and yes. And I don't want anyone saying "He'd be another Spiderman, because it was Supes who brought that in and no one should monopolize that.

[Catman]

Originally Posted by Kurosawa

Although Superman in the movie shouldn't be fighting the same level of crime as the early version

Why not? We already saw a light-hearted version of it in the `78 picture. In the sequel he stopped a terrorist attack. And in Superman IV he tried to rid the world of nuclear weapons. Snyder and Nolan could take a cue from those movies and do a better job of it. Superman fighting aliens and monsters is fun and all, but it doesn't make him relatable. A superman who ASSISTS in fighting everyday crime and saves people from everyday dangers is a good thing. Heck, even Sam Raimi did it with Spider-Man! How many times did we see Peter Parker run into a burning building? How many times did he rescue children who didn't look both ways before crossing the street?

[JamalYIgle]

Originally Posted by Catman

Why not? We already saw a light-hearted version of it in the `78 picture. In the sequel he stopped a terrorist attack. And in Superman IV he tried to rid the world of nuclear weapons. Snyder and Nolan could take a cue from those movies and do a better job of it. Superman fighting aliens and monsters is fun and all, but it doesn't make him relatable. A superman who ASSISTS in fighting everyday crime and saves people from everyday dangers is a good thing. Heck, even Sam Raimi did it with Spider-Man! How many times did we see Peter Parker run into a burning building? How many times did he rescue children who didn't look both ways before crossing the street?

Superman isn't supposed to be relatable. Relatable is a fanboy buzz word for validity. It's the search to desperatly justify their love for the fantastic by trying to ground it in their rules and their thinking. that way people won't make fun of them for it, or at least in their minds. Superman doesn't need to be stopping street crime, or fighting a fire in 3 seconds between keystrokes at the Daily Planet. he needs to be stopping world conquering villains, Super-powered criminals and giant monsters like Chemo and Titano.
Superman's powerset alone makes it ridiculous for him to be stopping muggers in the street. It's also not in Superman's mission to solve the world's problems, which was the problem with Superman IV.
Stopping the hydrogen bomb in Superman 2 is different. The bomb if it had exploded would have leveled an entire city.
Spider-man is not a relatable character. He's a genius with superhuman strength, reflexes, precognitive senses and the ability to cling to surfaces. He's got an over developed sense of guilt and constantly complains about being unlucky while winning a Pulitzer prize, marrying a supermodel/actress, being friends with some of the richest most powerful people in the Marvel universe. Now he's a successful research scientist working for a billion dollar think tank. Aunt may is married to a millionaire author, who's son was a successful media tycoon turned Mayor of New York City.
Relatable.

[JamalYIgle]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Absolutely what I was saying.

I'd love to see that Superman.

Except it wouldn't be Superman.

[The Batman]

....You really can't say "Thats not Superman". That is indeed Superman. Maybe not the Superman you prefer. Maybe not the Superman of today, but the fact is that that is an official interpretation of the character. And one of the only reasons that Superman is gone is because DC softened all their characters in the 40's. Just because something has "evolved" (not really the word i'd use, but ok) from the original concept dosent mean the original concept is flawed or "not superman".

To me, Snyder using 38' Superman as a character template wouldnt be much different from burton using 39' Batman as a template for his films, or nolan using Batman # 1 Joker as a reference for ledger's performance.

[NotFadeAway]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Me too. But it's an extremely dangerous way. Comedy in superhero movies. They try it every time and I have seen them fail big time every single time with a few exceptions.

comedy in comic movies is risky, like you noted. But it can work. I point to JJ ABRAHMS STAR TREK as a way its done right though

[KrypJonian]

Originally Posted by JamalYIgle

Superman isn't supposed to be relatable. Relatable is a fanboy buzz word for validity. It's the search to desperatly justify their love for the fantastic by trying to ground it in their rules and their thinking. that way people won't make fun of them for it, or at least in their minds. Superman doesn't need to be stopping street crime, or fighting a fire in 3 seconds between keystrokes at the Daily Planet. he needs to be stopping world conquering villains, Super-powered criminals and giant monsters like Chemo and Titano.
Superman's powerset alone makes it ridiculous for him to be stopping muggers in the street. It's also not in Superman's mission to solve the world's problems, which was the problem with Superman IV.
Stopping the hydrogen bomb in Superman 2 is different. The bomb if it had exploded would have leveled an entire city.
Spider-man is not a relatable character. He's a genius with superhuman strength, reflexes, precognitive senses and the ability to cling to surfaces. He's got an over developed sense of guilt and constantly complains about being unlucky while winning a Pulitzer prize, marrying a supermodel/actress, being friends with some of the richest most powerful people in the Marvel universe. Now he's a successful research scientist working for a billion dollar think tank. Aunt may is married to a millionaire author, who's son was a successful media tycoon turned Mayor of New York City.
Relatable.

Damn... Good call

Although I still see Superman taking a quick bathroom break from the Planet to stop fires and street crime, but I wouldn't want to see a movie based on that.

Way to call Spider-man out though... I've thought that for years...