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Old 06-10-2014, 05:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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revel and celebrate are practically the same, so yes, as Gwen's death can be attributed to a mistake Peter made, that'd be you saying he revelled in Gwen's death.

That's being a bit literal... Ben's death was Peter's fault, but it doesn't seem to affect him much, Captain Stacy's death is his fault...once again, it doesn't seem to affect him much ("those are the best kind"). This is the irreverence I was speaking of. Obviously, he was depressed after Gwen's death, but there was no real lesson that he learned and the film certainly didn't explore this thematically in any capacity. Just: Gwen died, I'm sad and don't want to be Spider-Man. *Rhino appears*- "but I must". Becomes Spider-Man again. All within the span of 5 minutes...meaningless.


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Kind of confused, so he's infallible and fallible at the same time? Feels like you're changing the goal posts just a tad mate.

Yes. Again, you're taking my comments a bit literally... Fallible in that he makes the wrong, selfish decisions over and over and over resulting in three loved ones deaths. Infallible in that he doesn't seem to learn any lesson and that the movie presents him as some wise hero who is going to school his aunt about right and wrong.



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Vicarious fantasy? As in people want to be like him? Who's wish is to make poor decisions? Who wants to live vicariously through a person that makes mistakes.

Vicarious fantasy as in the super powered hero who is good looking, confident, athletic, well dressed, a genius (or so we're told) who makes poor decisions and never seems to learn from them and is then presented as a selfless hero.


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Peter does indeed show concern for the people around him and their needs, people already brought up the egg example, which you promptly dismissed, so I'm not sure if more examples will change your mind. But to bring another one up, he seems relatively compassionate to max, he helps that little kid with his wind turbine, gets the **** beaten out of him for that Gordan child, gives Dr Connors that formula to help him fix his arm, refuses to give harry his blood out of fear that it'll kill him. He has a heart, and he's nowhere near a sociopath.

Those are more tangible details. He helps the kid out (because Spider-Man is the people's hero or whatever), okay. The bigger picture is still missing here and that is the way he responds (or doesn't in this case) to the verbalized needs of every other character (Gwen, his Aunt, Harry). Again, I'm not saying he's actually a sociopath, but this behaviour does err towards it.



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Calling Andrew Peter a sociapath because of a percieved lack of care about others (which is ridiculous anyway) is just a flawed as calling Macguire Peter autistic because he is softly spoken (and his mannerisms as well, social awkwardness, ect)

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

"Lack of love" for example, don't think Garfield PP has a problem feeling love.

So yes, calling Andrew PP a sociopath could be considered just as ridiculous as calling Toby PP autistic.

The distinction being that Tobey's Peter's alleged "autism" doesn't negatively impact/jeopardize the family/friends/loved ones the way Garfield's Peter's behaviour does.

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Old 06-10-2014, 05:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

It's ok, not memorable
I wish they made May his actual aunt like they did in Ultimate Spider-Man comics (Peter's mom is May's sister in that series), I'd like it more
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....do we need this thread at all?
When we have the Favorite lines thread?
Of course not

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Old 06-10-2014, 05:42 PM   #28
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

It still blows my mind how some of you seem to miss the tone and context of scenes like this completely. I don't know if it's because you want everything about this movie to be bad in you're mind or if you didn't comprehend the meaning of the lines or what. But it's pretty amazing how far off some of you are in your analysis of the scene. Objectively speaking of the context and meaning. Not whether you like it or not because obviously everyone will have their opinion on the actual quality of a scene. It's just kinda sad when that opinion is based on misunderstanding the scene on your end.

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Old 06-10-2014, 05:55 PM   #29
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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It still blows my mind how some of you seem to miss the tone and context of scenes like this completely. I don't know if it's because you want everything about this movie to be bad in you're mind or if you didn't comprehend the meaning of the lines or what. But it's pretty amazing how far off some of you are in your analysis of the scene. Objectively speaking of the context and meaning. Not whether you like it or not because obviously everyone will have their opinion on the actual quality of a scene. It's just kinda sad when that opinion is based on misunderstanding the scene on your end.
Yeah, yeah, we get it; if someone doesn't worship a scene, clearly they didn't understand it. Silly, unenlightened plebeians, the whole lot of them.

Haven't heard that line of logic before.

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Old 06-10-2014, 05:57 PM   #30
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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It still blows my mind how some of you seem to miss the tone and context of scenes like this completely. I don't know if it's because you want everything about this movie to be bad in you're mind or if you didn't comprehend the meaning of the lines or what. But it's pretty amazing how far off some of you are in your analysis of the scene. Objectively speaking of the context and meaning. Not whether you like it or not because obviously everyone will have their opinion on the actual quality of a scene. It's just kinda sad when that opinion is based on misunderstanding the scene on your end.

Can you please elaborate? What did those of us who take exception with the portrayal of these characters or this scene and it's overall [ir]relevance to the story, miss exactly? It's the old, "you didn't like it, therefore you didn't get it." excuse hauled out again.

I said the scene was fine- (if not a bit meaningless- much like the entire parents subplot which ultimately contributed little to the story thematically or otherwise) which it was. But I took excpetion with this iteration of Peter Parker teaching his aunt how/why to share info about his parents with him in a moment that should should be about catharsis for May- not to show how cool and infallible Peter is (again!). Sloppy writing.

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Old 06-10-2014, 05:58 PM   #31
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

I've given this movie an 8.2/10, and I still think this scene fits kinda meh with the scene before...

Which is the ****ing Kafka-Electro torture scene.

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Old 06-10-2014, 07:13 PM   #32
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

What would have been fantastic in my book is if the airplane scene at the beginning of the film was removed, Peter still feeling anxious to know about his parents, and THEN, he has this conversation with Aunt May - in which he agrees with her. Afterwards, the entire crappy parents subplot can be dropped because he accepts the reality of him being Aunt May's boy, and it would be a good conclusion, at least for me, of this horrible plot line.

But no. Instead we have this great conversation and then an annoying Peter Parker, who pretty much disregards the conversation and continues to investigate his parents. It just seemed like the conversation meant nothing to Peter.


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Old 06-10-2014, 07:16 PM   #33
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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So yes, calling Andrew PP a sociopath could be considered just as ridiculous as calling Toby PP autistic.
That about sums it up.

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Old 06-10-2014, 07:24 PM   #34
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

I thought the airplane scene was incredible, actually.

However, the tone change from that to Spidey's freefall felt weird.

I feel like a lot of stuff from ASM2 is actually better out of context.

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Old 06-10-2014, 07:34 PM   #35
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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What would have been fantastic in my book is if the airplane scene at the beginning of the film was removed, Peter still feeling anxious to know about his parents, and THEN, he has this conversation with Aunt May - in which he agrees with her. Afterwards, the entire crappy parents subplot can be dropped because he accepts the reality of him being Aunt May's boy, and it would be a good conclusion, at least for me, of this horrible plot line.

But no. Instead we have this great conversation and then an annoying Peter Parker, who pretty much disregards the conversation and continues to investigate his parents. It just seemed like the conversation meant nothing to Peter.
But this movie is exactly like the comics. Didn't you hear?

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Old 06-10-2014, 10:16 PM   #36
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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However, the tone change from that to Spidey's freefall felt weird.
I think it worked fine. The juxtaposition of two freefalls. One is doomed, the other is joyous.
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That was a great scene and Sally Field played it brilliantly
Yeah, well done. Rosemary Harris is brilliant too, but Sally is my favourite.

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Old 06-10-2014, 10:20 PM   #37
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

I don't know. If I was Peter and saw my Aunt May crying and convincingly explaining how the whole parents ordeal is hurting her, I'd learn to drop the thing just so she knows she is my true mother. Actions count, not words.

Even though he says, "I am your boy," it's wrong for him to contradict that by saying, "I just want to know." Like...yeah, so you JUST wanna know? Out of curiosity? No emotional connections to his real parents? Please.

I don't remember the ending very well but when Peter listens to Gwen's speech again and they show pictures of him and Gwen, do they also show a picture of him and his parents on the wall?My mind may be deceiving me, but at one point they do show Peter looking at a photo of him and his parents and brooding. I remember being pissed it wasn't Uncle Ben.

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Old 06-10-2014, 10:35 PM   #38
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

^IDK if one was one on the wall, but I do know that they showed Peter putting a picture of his parents away in a box.

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Old 06-11-2014, 01:25 AM   #39
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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Can you please elaborate? What did those of us who take exception with the portrayal of these characters or this scene and it's overall [ir]relevance to the story, miss exactly? It's the old, "you didn't like it, therefore you didn't get it." excuse hauled out again.

I said the scene was fine- (if not a bit meaningless- much like the entire parents subplot which ultimately contributed little to the story thematically or otherwise) which it was. But I took excpetion with this iteration of Peter Parker teaching his aunt how/why to share info about his parents with him in a moment that should should be about catharsis for May- not to show how cool and infallible Peter is (again!). Sloppy writing.
You're reading way too much into it and that's exactly what I'm talking about. You're seeing something that isn't there in my opinion. Peter was angry with his parents for abandoning him which was clearly demonstrated before this point. He lost Gwen and wanted to focus on something else. She made him happy, so when they broke up, his happiness turned to anger and sadness. Which he vented by focusing on his parents again. He puts together all this information about his parents and he knows something is wrong. He knows Aunt May isn't telling him something.

Aunt May doesn't realize that his obsession with his parents has nothing to do with her. He isn't ignoring her and he certainly doesn't love her any less. From her perspective, she feels like his parents don't deserve his attention. She took care of him while his parents abandoned him. And from what she's been told, she thinks his parents left because they were thieves and traitors. So she gets upset. Peter clearly says, "You're my everything. You're enough... more than enough. This isn't about that". Because it's not. Peter simply wants closure. He isn't teaching Aunt May anything. It was just a misconception on her part and Peter needed to clarify that he loves her more than anything and his interest in his parents doesn't change that at all.

How some of you get "Peter doesn't love Aunt May because he's too interested in his parents" or as you said "(The scene is there) to show how cool and infallible Peter is"... it's just not the intended tone or context of these lines. Now, you could say you didn't like the scene because that's not how it came across for you. But I think your interpretation is wrong. Simple as that. And that's ok, cause we don't have to interpret things the same way. That's one of the beauties of art. But I'm going to defend it for how I see it.

And Visualiza, get over yourself. You're putting words in my mouth and completely missing my argument entirely. I never said or implied anything of the sort. In fact, I said just the opposite. But go ahead and play the straw man if you like.

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I don't know. If I was Peter and saw my Aunt May crying and convincingly explaining how the whole parents ordeal is hurting her, I'd learn to drop the thing just so she knows she is my true mother. Actions count, not words.

Even though he says, "I am your boy," it's wrong for him to contradict that by saying, "I just want to know." Like...yeah, so you JUST wanna know? Out of curiosity? No emotional connections to his real parents? Please.
Another example of what I'm talking about. No, he doesn't "just want to know". He needs to know. And he said as much. If you think he has no emotional stake in finding out the truth about his parents, you didn't pay attention to the movie. Aunt May made a wrong assumption about Peter's obsession with his parents. She was hurt, but for something that wasn't true. And Peter explains this. But I guess you missed that line too.


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Old 06-11-2014, 01:57 AM   #40
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

Anyone who wasn't raised by their natural parents has a burning desire to know who their biological parents are (obviously there are some exceptions). It isn't about caring about these people (natural parents) more than your guardians, it's about a need to know. When people say Peter is a douche for giving more attention to people who were never there for him over people who cared for him every day it angers me no end.
The May scene hold specials resonance because I've experienced it first hand.

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Old 06-11-2014, 02:19 AM   #41
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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I think it worked fine. The juxtaposition of two freefalls. One is doomed, the other is joyous.
Yes, I get the similarity between the two scenes - both falling.

But it's the sudden tone shift that really got to me. I was feeling pretty damn sad during the plane scene, and when then when Spidey happy and everything, it just feels wrong.

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Old 06-11-2014, 02:21 AM   #42
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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Anyone who wasn't raised by their natural parents has a burning desire to know who their biological parents are (obviously there are some exceptions). It isn't about caring about these people (natural parents) more than your guardians, it's about a need to know. When people say Peter is a douche for giving more attention to people who were never there for him over people who cared for him every day it angers me no end.
The May scene hold specials resonance because I've experienced it first hand.
I wasn't raised by my biological parents, and have no interest whatsoever to meet them

Still, it does makes Peter even more relatable to me, except for him caring about his bilogical parents.

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Old 06-11-2014, 03:20 AM   #43
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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I wasn't raised by my biological parents, and have no interest whatsoever to meet them

Still, it does makes Peter even more relatable to me, except for him caring about his bilogical parents.
Never wanted to meet them? Even in your teens?

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Old 06-11-2014, 05:19 AM   #44
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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Never wanted to meet them? Even in your teens?
Nope, not really.

No one know where they are, so even if I wanted to, I couldn't.

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Old 06-11-2014, 05:42 AM   #45
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Great scene, one of my favorites scenes from the movie.

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Old 06-11-2014, 06:59 AM   #46
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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Yes, I get the similarity between the two scenes - both falling.

But it's the sudden tone shift that really got to me. I was feeling pretty damn sad during the plane scene, and when then when Spidey happy and everything, it just feels wrong.
Others cite jarring tonal shifts, but I don't really get the big deal. There's a black screen and a bell which Zimmer literally uses to toll on that segment. "For Whom the Bell Tolls" means everyone will eventually be brought to their end. It is how we accept that fate which defines us. So I see Peter free-falling as as Richard's legacy, something good emerging from the darkness - the black screen transition. One story ends, another begins. Plus the spider logo appears again before the end credits, bookending the film.

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Old 06-11-2014, 07:02 AM   #47
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

High five AnneFan, that was some fine symbolism!!

On another point, I've seen your post Par Avion, just cannot accept it, and there's no real point in trying to discuss our points of view as they're just so unmovingly different, will just have to hug and go bash a movie we both hate/praise a movie together or something

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Old 06-11-2014, 08:32 AM   #48
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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Others cite jarring tonal shifts, but I don't really get the big deal. There's a black screen and a bell which Zimmer literally uses to toll on that segment. "For Whom the Bell Tolls" means everyone will eventually be brought to their end. It is how we accept that fate which defines us. So I see Peter free-falling as as Richard's legacy, something good emerging from the darkness - the black screen transition. One story ends, another begins. Plus the spider logo appears again before the end credits, bookending the film.
I love the why how the movie shifts from the plane crash to Spidey falling. Every time I see those scenes together I literally get goose bumps.


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Old 06-11-2014, 08:55 AM   #49
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

Nothing wrong with the switch from the plane scene to Peter falling, the plane scene was beautifully done and emotional too and giving it was sorta like a pre title scene it fit in with having lighter spider-man moment next

A lot of Films do that, they have a dark opening before the title then a light touch after

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Old 06-11-2014, 03:11 PM   #50
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Default Re: "you're MY boy" - one of if not the best scene in the movie

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Others cite jarring tonal shifts, but I don't really get the big deal. There's a black screen and a bell which Zimmer literally uses to toll on that segment. "For Whom the Bell Tolls" means everyone will eventually be brought to their end. It is how we accept that fate which defines us. So I see Peter free-falling as as Richard's legacy, something good emerging from the darkness - the black screen transition. One story ends, another begins. Plus the spider logo appears again before the end credits, bookending the film.
Well, luckily, it's just the order of them that feels weird to me. Don't get me wrong, though. I LOVE both the plane scene and the free fall.

The bookending is definitely nice.

Care to elaborate on the "bell" thing? Sounded interesting.

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