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Old 03-29-2018, 12:36 AM   #101
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Default Re: Animated Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen Two-Parter coming 2018/2019

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Well, it's always like the same handful of people behind these films.

I'm just saying if they had forced TDKR into this New 52 Universe like they're doing with Death of Superman. I don't think it would get a positive response.
When Oliva came on board, there was a noticeable difference in direction even if Bruce Timm didn't step down until after those 2 movies.

TDKR in of itself is much more self-contained than Death & Reign.

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Old 03-29-2018, 12:56 AM   #102
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When Oliva came on board, there was a noticeable difference in direction even if Bruce Timm didn't step down until after those 2 movies.

TDKR in of itself is much more self-contained than Death & Reign.
Well, I can't say much outside maybe an increase use of explicit language and violence. But, it does seem like it's always the same writers, producers, directors, etc. popping up with these things. And that's understandable.

Perhaps, but I'm pretty sure when fans thought of the idea of it being made into an animated film, they thought of it being a self-contained story rather than connected to other films. Much like the first DTV was its own thing, but this time with more characters and heroes involved (maybe even in two parts like TDKR). Also, in a style different from the New 52 DTVs.

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Old 03-29-2018, 02:26 AM   #103
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Default Re: Animated Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen Two-Parter coming 2018/2019

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Well, it's always like the same handful of people behind these films.

I'm just saying if they had forced TDKR into this New 52 Universe like they're doing with Death of Superman. I don't think it would get a positive response.
TDKR was always a standalone 4 issue story. DOS is an incontinuity saga that had massive implications for the Superman line of comics. Better comparisons would be Knightfall or even Batman R.I.P and those I can absolutely see being a part of the shared verse. Its not like they're making Red Son or Kingdom Come part of this shared verse.
DOS introduced Superboy, Steel and Cyborg Superman plus Eradicator as how we know him. Why wouldn't they want these characters to be used again? Particularly Superboy.

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Old 03-29-2018, 08:18 AM   #104
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Default Re: Animated Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen Two-Parter coming 2018/2019

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TDKR was always a standalone 4 issue story. DOS is an incontinuity saga that had massive implications for the Superman line of comics. Better comparisons would be Knightfall or even Batman R.I.P and those I can absolutely see being a part of the shared verse. Its not like they're making Red Son or Kingdom Come part of this shared verse.
DOS introduced Superboy, Steel and Cyborg Superman plus Eradicator as how we know him. Why wouldn't they want these characters to be used again? Particularly Superboy.
Ah, interesting, I think this is something that plagues the "live action" universe, the inability to incorporate the characters and have it make sense to the GA.

I'm okay with DoS being in either universe, I think it's a good story that can fit either way, my only issue is the current universe really hasn't done a good job at promoting superman as this beacon of hope, but flawed, and I think they should have done a superman story prior to this that really shows his ability to inspire.

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Old 03-29-2018, 10:39 AM   #105
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TDKR was always a standalone 4 issue story. DOS is an incontinuity saga that had massive implications for the Superman line of comics. Better comparisons would be Knightfall or even Batman R.I.P and those I can absolutely see being a part of the shared verse. Its not like they're making Red Son or Kingdom Come part of this shared verse.
DOS introduced Superboy, Steel and Cyborg Superman plus Eradicator as how we know him. Why wouldn't they want these characters to be used again? Particularly Superboy.
Doesn’t really matter if the story was used within comic continuity or not. It could still have been done as a stand-alone story like they mostly used to do before the New 52 DTVs if they felt like it.

If they’re so inclined to use certain characters again, nothing is preventing them from being used in continuity or outside of it with these New 52 DTVs. Much like Tower of Babel was used for its own film and didn’t affect anything else or Batman: Year One.

The point is that since this DTV business started, I’m pretty sure people expected this to be its own thing instead of being in continuity with the New 52 like how something like Judas Contract (a film some have wanted for years before the New 52 was a thing) got used.

So, as I said earlier, imagine if TDKR was announced it would be co-opted somehow to fit into this New 52 universe because they felt like it. I’m not sure it would’ve gotten a positive reaction.

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Old 03-29-2018, 11:40 AM   #106
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Doesn’t really matter if the story was used within comic continuity or not. It could still have been done as a stand-alone story like they mostly used to do before the New 52 DTVs if they felt like it.

If they’re so inclined to use certain characters again, nothing is preventing them from being used in continuity or outside of it with these New 52 DTVs. Much like Tower of Babel was used for its own film and didn’t affect anything else or Batman: Year One.

The point is that since this DTV business started, I’m pretty sure people expected this to be its own thing instead of being in continuity with the New 52 like how something like Judas Contract (a film some have wanted for years before the New 52 was a thing) got used.

So, as I said earlier, imagine if TDKR was announced it would be co-opted somehow to fit into this New 52 universe because they felt like it. I’m not sure it would’ve gotten a positive reaction.
And again you're completely ignoring context that comes with the continuity.The original DOS was written with editorial edicts. The JL in that story comprised of the likes of Booster Gold and Ted Kord, Supergirl was a being of protoplasma or whatever, Luthor was a clone of himself with flaming red hair and a beard pretending to be his own son lol and on top of that it lasted many issues. TDKR was a straightforward basic story that lasted 4 issues.

But ultimately I believe they'll use this DOS to do what Final Days of Superman did for Flashpoint Superman and then Reign will get a merger with Superman Reborn. They're using it to soft reboot their animated line to get rid of the New 52 influences. Final Days and Son of Superman and Path to Doom from Rebirth are spiritual successors to the Death and Return saga so I wager they're mixing all of them.

They've established Damian, if they use Reign to establish Jon Kent as Superboy then they can march forward with Super Sons animated film. Thats how continuity works. TDKR would never have been set in a shared universe. If they try to fit in Red Son, Kingdom Come, or Arkham Asylum then I'd agree with you. They're classic standalone prestige stories But DOS, Knightfall, R.I.P, Judas Contract etc are the type of stories that continue the narrative.
DOS in particular was just one big fight, dunno why we're getting bent out of shape over the addition of the proper JL, Lex and removal of a silly Supergirl along with a character driven plot.


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Old 03-29-2018, 11:41 AM   #107
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Default Re: Animated Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen Two-Parter coming 2018/2019

They can do original stories in their New 52 verse, but when they're adapting iconic stories, they should let them be standalones. I'm not a big fan of the shared universe.

I'm bored of the animation style. Give us more variety!

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Old 03-29-2018, 01:42 PM   #108
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And again you're completely ignoring context that comes with the continuity.The original DOS was written with editorial edicts. The JL in that story comprised of the likes of Booster Gold and Ted Kord, Supergirl was a being of protoplasma or whatever, Luthor was a clone of himself with flaming red hair and a beard pretending to be his own son lol and on top of that it lasted many issues. TDKR was a straightforward basic story that lasted 4 issues.

But ultimately I believe they'll use this DOS to do what Final Days of Superman did for Flashpoint Superman and then Reign will get a merger with Superman Reborn. They're using it to soft reboot their animated line to get rid of the New 52 influences. Final Days and Son of Superman and Path to Doom from Rebirth are spiritual successors to the Death and Return saga so I wager they're mixing all of them.

They've established Damian, if they use Reign to establish Jon Kent as Superboy then they can march forward with Super Sons animated film. Thats how continuity works. TDKR would never have been set in a shared universe. If they try to fit in Red Son, Kingdom Come, or Arkham Asylum then I'd agree with you. They're classic standalone prestige stories But DOS, Knightfall, R.I.P, Judas Contract etc are the type of stories that continue the narrative.
DOS in particular was just one big fight, dunno why we're getting bent out of shape over the addition of the proper JL, Lex and removal of a silly Supergirl along with a character driven plot.
Nah, I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just noting how people have shown their expectation of the DOS story not being done in these New 52 films and if something like TDKR was co-opted, it probably wouldn't have gotten a positive reaction. Just like they just did with Judas Contract, TPTB could've used it for their New 52 films if they felt like it. They would just make whatever adjustments they felt needed to fit into that continuity and give enough details for audience members who've never read the story before to understand what's going on. In TDKR's case, it would just simply be, "Hey, this is the future for Batman."

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They can do original stories in their New 52 verse, but when they're adapting iconic stories, they should let them be standalones. I'm not a big fan of the shared universe.

I'm bored of the animation style. Give us more variety!
Yep.

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Old 03-29-2018, 01:43 PM   #109
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Old 03-29-2018, 01:55 PM   #110
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Seriously no one is down for these classic stories being in the shared universe. I’m really not seeing any support from fans.

Do original stories in that shared universe, don’t do adaptations unless they’re actual New 52/rebirth stories

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Old 03-29-2018, 03:33 PM   #111
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Default Re: Animated Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen Two-Parter coming 2018/2019

I really hope they don't do The Long Halloween or Hush with Jason O'Mara's Batman. I'm over this continuity and especially over the hideous designs.

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Old 03-29-2018, 04:24 PM   #112
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Default Re: Animated Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen Two-Parter coming 2018/2019

As one of the many voices here not supportive of the current animated continuity, I wanted to see what Wally West thinks of the death of the uncle in law who respected him more than his father ever did (post crisis version), and then seeing it followed not long after by the death of a teammate both guys raced and greatly respected.

That stuff wasn't touched upon in the comics.
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This looks ok at best.

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Old 03-29-2018, 04:31 PM   #113
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Default Re: Animated Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen Two-Parter coming 2018/2019

Like others, I cannot understand the setting within a now defunct New 52 for this story.

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Old 03-29-2018, 04:47 PM   #114
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They can do original stories in their New 52 verse, but when they're adapting iconic stories, they should let them be standalones. I'm not a big fan of the shared universe.

I'm bored of the animation style. Give us more variety!
Agreed 1000%

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Old 03-29-2018, 05:06 PM   #115
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I really hope they don't do The Long Halloween or Hush with Jason O'Mara's Batman. I'm over this continuity and especially over the hideous designs.
That would crush me. We've waited for those two as long as they've been making these animated movies. To do that would be a huge mistake.

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Old 03-30-2018, 04:03 AM   #116
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I really hope they don't do The Long Halloween or Hush with Jason O'Mara's Batman. I'm over this continuity and especially over the hideous designs.
That would suck, I don’t even like his voice and the designs for all these New 52 inspired takes are dull as hell.

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Old 03-30-2018, 05:39 AM   #117
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Nah, I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just noting how people have shown their expectation of the DOS story not being done in these New 52 films and if something like TDKR was co-opted, it probably wouldn't have gotten a positive reaction. Just like they just did with Judas Contract, TPTB could've used it for their New 52 films if they felt like it. They would just make whatever adjustments they felt needed to fit into that continuity and give enough details for audience members who've never read the story before to understand what's going on. In TDKR's case, it would just simply be, "Hey, this is the future for Batman."



Yep.
I'm not following this, they made a standalone Gaslight film that had virtually nothing in common with the classic one shot. They made a panel for panel standalone recreation of The Killing Joke and it was still poor.
So what I'm saying is that the universe these films are set in does not determine either accuracy to the source material or quality. The animation quality and designs of those films were lackluster and cheap as well so this is hardly some continuity films specific problem. Same goes for violence and adult content. Its clear that the reason they keep repeating the designs is to save cost not some loyalty to a non existent New 52.

Do you really think a standalone Long Halloween or Dark Victory will ever be able to replicate the Sale designs? Do you think a standalone Arkham Asylum will ever look anything like Mckeans artwork? They dont have the resources for those kinds of special projects.

I think comic fans need to realize is that not all great comic stories will ever end up becoming great films even with a panel for panel recreation. Just look at Watchmen. DOS is better off trying to be contemporary than working with 90's edicts.

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Old 03-30-2018, 07:18 AM   #118
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Do you really think a standalone Long Halloween or Dark Victory will ever be able to replicate the Sale designs? Do you think a standalone Arkham Asylum will ever look anything like Mckeans artwork? They dont have the resources for those kinds of special projects.
Not replication, something more like how Superman/Batman: Public Enemies was done, the art of Ed McGuiness greatly influenced that adaption without being a replication, it stands out well.

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I think comic fans need to realize is that not all great comic stories will ever end up becoming great films even with a panel for panel recreation. Just look at Watchmen. DOS is better off trying to be contemporary than working with 90's edicts.
The problem is not modernizing the adaption, it's that the current animated world has been majorly underwhelming, we don't want a long anticipated translation end up being another underwhelming entry in their underwhelming world with some of their disappointing voice actors.

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Old 03-30-2018, 07:29 AM   #119
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Not replication, something more like how Superman/Batman: Public Enemies was done, the art of Ed McGuiness greatly influenced that adaption without being a replication, it stands out well.

The problem is not modernizing the adaption, it's that the current animated world has been majorly underwhelming, we don't want a long anticipated translation end up being another underwhelming entry in their underwhelming world with some of their disappointing voice actors.
Bingo

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Old 03-30-2018, 07:55 AM   #120
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Default Re: Animated Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen Two-Parter coming 2018/2019

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The problem is not modernizing the adaption, it's that the current animated world has been majorly underwhelming, we don't want a long anticipated translation end up being another underwhelming entry in their underwhelming world with some of their disappointing voice actors.
It's somehow gotten way better. Since the Teen Titan movies, the JL Dark movie, most recent Suicide Squad (which somehow also feels like a sequel to Assault on Arkham as much as it is a sequel to Flashpoint). Heck, speaking in particular with Superman, he was the standout in that JL vs Titans movie.

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Old 03-30-2018, 08:32 AM   #121
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I'm not following this, they made a standalone Gaslight film that had virtually nothing in common with the classic one shot. They made a panel for panel standalone recreation of The Killing Joke and it was still poor.
So what I'm saying is that the universe these films are set in does not determine either accuracy to the source material or quality. The animation quality and designs of those films were lackluster and cheap as well so this is hardly some continuity films specific problem. Same goes for violence and adult content. Its clear that the reason they keep repeating the designs is to save cost not some loyalty to a non existent New 52.

Do you really think a standalone Long Halloween or Dark Victory will ever be able to replicate the Sale designs? Do you think a standalone Arkham Asylum will ever look anything like Mckeans artwork? They dont have the resources for those kinds of special projects.

I think comic fans need to realize is that not all great comic stories will ever end up becoming great films even with a panel for panel recreation. Just look at Watchmen. DOS is better off trying to be contemporary than working with 90's edicts.
Totally Agree!!!!

Plus since they dedicated a shared universe in the beginning, improve on it instead of scrapping it when there's a slight set back.

And a legendary comic book story can improve the the rest of this DamianVerse.

Yes I call it that so it won't be confused with the actual comic book continuity of New 52.

DamianVerse since they obnoxiously promote the hell out of Damian in this continuity.

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Old 03-30-2018, 09:18 AM   #122
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Not replication, something more like how Superman/Batman: Public Enemies was done, the art of Ed McGuiness greatly influenced that adaption without being a replication, it stands out well.

The problem is not modernizing the adaption, it's that the current animated world has been majorly underwhelming, we don't want a long anticipated translation end up being another underwhelming entry in their underwhelming world with some of their disappointing voice actors.
That film was made over a decade ago, their budgets were higher and DC animation had a novelty factor. Besides Mcguiness art is cartoonish and simple and personally speaking I dont think either Superman/Batman film stands well at all. Loebs storylines went downhill around that time.

And I get that but after TKJ and Gaslight what makes you think accuracy, quality and good designs plus animation will be guaranteed in a standalone universe? Even a supposed DCAU offering like Batman and Harley Quinn was horrid. As another poster correctly said all these films have been made by pretty much the same team for a long time so whatever their vision they'll find a way to execute it, in continuity or not.

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Old 03-30-2018, 10:02 AM   #123
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That film was made over a decade ago, their budgets were higher and DC animation had a novelty factor.
Higher/movie because the output/year was lower. They also had more shows back then to produce. They're definitely taking approximately the same budget to spread between more than 3 movies (including the ones advertising specific toylines like Superhero Girls & Batman Unlimited + Adam West) and web series.

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Old 03-30-2018, 10:55 AM   #124
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Default Re: Animated Death of Superman/Reign of the Supermen Two-Parter coming 2018/2019

Just saw the sneak peek, I'm over DC and this anime style they've been doing for years with their movies.

Why can't we get more designs like BTAS/STAS it always has to be that overdone anime shxt.

And this storyline remake has been done to death (no pun).

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Old 03-30-2018, 11:09 AM   #125
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It's somehow gotten way better. Since the Teen Titan movies, the JL Dark movie, most recent Suicide Squad (which somehow also feels like a sequel to Assault on Arkham as much as it is a sequel to Flashpoint). Heck, speaking in particular with Superman, he was the standout in that JL vs Titans movie.
JL Dark is solid, underwhelming considering the writer involved and how it could have been, but certainly better than the rest of the films in this series.

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That film was made over a decade ago, their budgets were higher and DC animation had a novelty factor. Besides Mcguiness art is cartoonish and simple and personally speaking I dont think either Superman/Batman film stands well at all. Loebs storylines went downhill around that time.
The comic arc is stupid but fun, the film improved on it significantly. The art of ED McGuiness is very detailed and heavy with effort. Similar art is that of Humberto Ramos.

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And I get that but after TKJ and Gaslight what makes you think accuracy, quality and good designs plus animation will be guaranteed in a standalone universe? Even a supposed DCAU offering like Batman and Harley Quinn was horrid. As another poster correctly said all these films have been made by pretty much the same team for a long time so whatever their vision they'll find a way to execute it, in continuity or not.
Personally speaking, I wouldn't mind a distinguishable art style being used so long as it doesn't look less pleasant to the eyes.

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