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Old 01-29-2014, 08:28 PM   #1
enterthemadness
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Default Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

Some of you may recall...he was the Libertarian guy who got 6.5% of the vote in Virginia's Governor race. Well, he is back...and is putting his hat in for the Senate race in Virginia. Will he win? Will he do better than he did in Gov race and be a bigger spoiler? In any case, this is good for the LP of Virginia. Keeps up momentum. Second time he has run for Senate I believe. First was in 2011 as a Republican.


http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/rob-sa...nate-candidacy

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Old 01-30-2014, 05:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

I know that this doesn't have a lot of substance, but **** Sarvis. He essentially cost a libertarian Republican the victory in Virginia governor race.

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Old 01-30-2014, 05:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

^That's assuming that 73% of those who voted for Savis wouldn't have voted for McAuliffe. Cuccinelli is anti-gay, anti-choice, and anti-immigration. That doesn't sound very libertarian to me.

I think economic libertarianism is nonsense, but hopefully him being a spoiler will break this two party system.

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Old 01-30-2014, 06:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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^That's assuming that 73% of those who voted for Savis wouldn't have voted for McAuliffe. Cuccinelli is anti-gay, anti-choice, and anti-immigration. That doesn't sound very libertarian to me.
Generally when you poll people who vote libertarian, many say if the libertarian wasn't there they would have found a different 3rd party candidate to vote for or not vote at all.

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Old 01-30-2014, 06:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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^That's assuming that 73% of those who voted for Savis wouldn't have voted for McAuliffe. Cuccinelli is anti-gay, anti-choice, and anti-immigration. That doesn't sound very libertarian to me.
That's because that's what the McAufliffe campaign wanted people to believe.

Quote:
Virginia’s Ken Cuccinelli would arguably be the most libertarian governor in the United States if he wins on Nov. 5 — which makes it odd that he’s become a top target for many libertarians.

Cuccinelli trails Democrat Terry McAuliffe in all polls, while Libertarian candidate Robert Sarvis is pulling 10 percent of the vote. One national libertarian group is spending big to back Sarvis and attack Cuccinelli.

But Cuccinelli has libertarian bona fides: As attorney general he led the states aiming to kill Obamacare, with all its mandates, taxes, regulations, subsidies and intrusions. He wants to cut the state income tax rate by 15 percent for individuals and 33 percent for corporations.

Cuccinelli has an A rating from the NRA — earned while representing Fairfax County in the state Senate. He opposed smoking bans as a senator.
To a libertarian, all of the above looks good, but not extraordinary for a Republican. But there's more.

Republican governors who sing paeans to the free market almost always make exceptions in order to be more “pro-business.” Cuccinelli, meanwhile, has angered much of his state’s business lobby by running against corporate welfare, opposing the tax hikes that Northern Virginia developers are seeking to pay for roads and public services and pledging to put special-interest tax credits on the chopping block.

Cuccinelli also often chooses government restraint over “law and order.”
When Virginia’s GOP tried to expand the death penalty in 2009, Cuccinelli was the only Republican to vote no — during a competitive GOP primary for attorney general.

Although not ready to support drug legalization like Sarvis, Cuccinelli has criticized the drug war as overzealous, and he said jailing marijuana dealers is a waste of taxpayer money. He told me he’s open to legalizing pot in Virginia if things go well in Colorado and Washington.

Attorney General Cuccinelli crusaded to exonerate Thomas Haynesworth, a black man wrongly convicted and jailed for 27 years. Cuccinelli argued successfully in court to get Haynseworth a rare “writ of actual innocence” — a feat only possible because state Sen. Cuccinelli had championed a law to make such exoneration easier.

Rand Paul and Ron Paul have endorsed Cuccinelli, as has the Republican Liberty Caucus of Virginia — the libertarian platoon within the state’s GOP.
Yet Purple PAC, a political action committee headed by Libertarian Ed Crane, former president of the Cato Institute, announced Oct. 25 it would spend $300,000 to back Sarvis. And many Beltway politicos with libertarian leanings are backing Sarvis and expressing disgust for Cuccinelli.

Why are libertarians working so hard against Cuccinelli, who is probably the most libertarian statewide official in Virginia in recent history?

I suspect identity politics plays a role.

I asked Sarvis why a libertarian should oppose Cuccinelli, and the first words out of his mouth were “social issues.” Crane’s only critique of Cuccinelli when announcing the $300,000 buy for Sarvis: “Ken Cuccinelli is a socially intolerant, hard-right conservative with little respect for civil liberties.”

Cuccinelli is undoubtedly conservative. He’s an observant Catholic with seven children and a home-schooling wife. He’s a hero to the pro-life cause and an opponent of gay marriage.

Libertarians, as a rule, support gay marriage, and most libertarians are pro-choice. But pro-life views fit within the libertarian framework: If you believe an in utero baby is a person, and if you believe the government has a legitimate role in protecting the innocent from violence, it’s logical to restrict abortion.

And Cuccinelli, while unwavering in his moral opposition to abortion, is a moderate among Virginia Republicans when it comes to government restrictions on abortion: He worked behind the scenes trying to remove a GOP-created requirement that women undergo an ultrasound before getting an abortion.

But the social liberals' attack on Cuccinelli conflates his personal conservatism with his policy views.

In prosecuting a 47-year-old sexual predator who had sex with minor, Cuccinelli defended the state’s “Crimes Against Nature” law — thus the charge he wants to “ban sodomy” and hence homosexuality. “I can assure you,” Cuccinelli told me, “I don’t want to outlaw it — or outlaw contraception.”

And on gay issues, he’s no busybody: “I support the marriage amendment in our state. It really doesn’t go beyond that.”

But this is where the identity politics comes in. Taxes, regulations, government spending, gun control and corporate welfare are mere policy matters. Abortion and gay marriage touch on personal matters.

Cuccinelli’s large family, homeschooling wife and religious devotion are also personal matters.

Politics often has less to do with policy and more to do with whether voters feel a candidate is “one of us.” Many libertarians have difficulty feeling that Cuccinelli is “one of them” — despite his voting record.
washingtonexaminer.com/ken-cuccinellis-policies-show-a-strong-libertarian-streak/article/2537877?utm_source=Tim Carney Reoccurring - 10/27/2013&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Washington Examiner: Timothy P Carney

And here's one thing that makes absolutely no sense. Voters who would vote for a libertarian like Sarvis, would not go off and vote for a progressive like McAuliffe. Going from one end to the other makes no logical sense.

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I think economic libertarianism is nonsense, but hopefully him being a spoiler will break this two party system.
The only way a two-party system is broken is if you switch the voting model in the United States from FPTP to proportional.

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Old 01-30-2014, 07:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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And here's one thing that makes absolutely no sense. Voters who would vote for a libertarian like Sarvis, would not go off and vote for a progressive like McAuliffe. Going from one end to the other makes no logical sense.
That is BS, many people who decide to vote Libertarian are one issue voters and like the way the libertarian candidate doesn't cut any bones about how he feels(instead of talking like a politician).

Look at Ron Paul he got alot of support from anti-war and pro-drug liberals for instance because unlike a "legit" candidate, Ron Paul cut no bones how he felt about those 2 issues. I am guessing many of those anti war and/or pro drug people weren't exactly on the same wavelength about many other issues.


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Old 01-30-2014, 07:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
And here's one thing that makes absolutely no sense. Voters who would vote for a libertarian like Sarvis, would not go off and vote for a progressive like McAuliffe. Going from one end to the other makes no logical sense.
IIRC, Sarvis was more liberal on social issues than McAuliffe, so that probably have played a factor. 1/3 of women get abortions, so it's not something you can just ignore.

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The only way a two-party system is broken is if you switch the voting model in the United States from FPTP to proportional.
I don't support proportional because it requires political parties to exist. I think Approval Voting is much better, since it is simpler, and easy to implement, and doesn't cause spoilers. I also support electoral fusion. If more spoilers happen, then those who support the losing candidates would push for these alternate voting methods.

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Old 01-30-2014, 09:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

The Republican lost in Virginia cause he just didn't bring his A game. Can't go around blaming the other guy. That's not mature. This is a free nation...anybody can run for office, regardless if they are basically a spoiler or not.


It should tell you something that even with Ron and Rand Paul endorsing the GOPer, enough libertarians and voters in general went to the LP guy.


Also, there are libertarians like myself that lean more left than to the right. I don't hate Big Gov't as much I say I do ...it's well meaning, but generally doesn't work like it should on paper.

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Old 01-30-2014, 10:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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It should tell you something that even with Ron and Rand Paul endorsing the GOPer, enough libertarians and voters in general went to the LP guy.
Because of the same partisan loyalties that have lead us into this feedback loop of a two party system? Hmm....

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Old 01-30-2014, 10:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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The Republican lost in Virginia cause he just didn't bring his A game. Can't go around blaming the other guy. That's not mature. This is a free nation...anybody can run for office, regardless if they are basically a spoiler or not.
Here's the thing. Anyone can run. But Sarvis' reasons were just dumb. It was like how "pure" conservatives chastise someone who doesn't act 100% conservative and it often hurts the cause. "Pure" libertarians chastised Cuccinelli for no good reason and as a result we don't have a libertarian in charge of Virginia. We don't have someone who could have proven that libertarian ideology works in power.

And it didn't help that until the very last minute, the GOP wrote off Cuccinelli.

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It should tell you something that even with Ron and Rand Paul endorsing the GOPer, enough libertarians and voters in general went to the LP guy.
Because McAuliffe successfully painted Cuccinelli as an extreme wack-job evangelical who was going to outlaw abortion and ban sodomy. And Cuccinelli was dumb enough to let those attacks stand so he could placate the evangelical base.

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Also, there are libertarians like myself that lean more left than to the right. I don't hate Big Gov't as much I say I do ...it's well meaning, but generally doesn't work like it should on paper.
Here's the thing though, we need to start acting practical. We had a really good shot of getting a libertarian in a major seat of power that would have given much needed momentum for the libertarian faction within the GOP to gain more influence within the party. Sarvis helped to squander it. And it's all because libertarian purists who were dumb enough to fall for McAuliffe's advertisements and looked at Cuccinelli's personal life pulled a Tea Party on us.

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Old 01-30-2014, 10:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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Because of the same partisan loyalties that have lead us into this feedback loop of a two party system? Hmm....
No, the Pauls supported Cuccinelli because he's pretty much in line with the libertarian faction of the GOP. The Pauls, Ron in particular, are more ideological purists than party loyalists. It's why Ron didn't endorse Romney, and hinted that he preferred Gary Johnson. And it's why the GOP did everything they could to try to mitigate Paul's influence in the primaries.

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Old 01-30-2014, 10:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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That is BS, many people who decide to vote Libertarian are one issue voters and like the way the libertarian candidate doesn't cut any bones about how he feels(instead of talking like a politician).
People tend to vote in line with their ideological tendencies. People who lined with Sarvis, would be more ideologically closer to Cuccinelli than they would with McAuliffe. Libertarianism goes far more than just social issues.

Seriously, people just don't make that massive of a shift in second choices.

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Look at Ron Paul he got alot of support from anti-war and pro-drug liberals for instance because unlike a "legit" candidate, Ron Paul cut no bones how he felt about those 2 issues. I am guessing many of those anti war and/or pro drug people weren't exactly on the same wavelength about many other issues.
Not really. Even with the anti-war, pro-legalization message that Paul espoused, he was still VERY vocal about his Austrian economic views. If they didn't agree with the core of Paul's message (i.e. economics), and just supported his anti-war, pro-drug stances, they wouldn't vote for Paul. They'd vote Democrat.

Your entire premise is based on people being completely irrational. People can be stupid, misinformed, or just flat out ignorant, but most are not irrational.

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Old 01-30-2014, 10:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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Your entire premise is based on people being completely irrational. People can be stupid, misinformed, or just flat out ignorant, but most are not irrational.
No my entire premise is saying many people vote a 3rd party candidate as a protest because they don't like the 2 party system and sometimes it's just a case they feel so strongly about 1 issue that they will back a candidate on the basis of that.

As I said above chances are people who voted Sarvis would have voted a different 3rd party guy or not voted all if he wasn't one the ballot, so getting 73% of his vote would be much harder then it seems when you figure a few of them would also jump over to the Demcorat side.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...overnors-race/


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Old 01-30-2014, 10:29 PM   #14
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

Or maybe, just maybe, a lot of people tend to vote third party because that is where they lean ideologically. My friend votes Green because that's where he lies when the Democrat isn't left enough for him. I often vote Libertarian when I find myself agreeing more with the Libertarian candidate than the Republican candidate.

It's called being a rational voter. People often just don't throw away their vote that doesn't have any meaning.

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Old 01-30-2014, 11:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
Here's the thing. Anyone can run. But Sarvis' reasons were just dumb. It was like how "pure" conservatives chastise someone who doesn't act 100% conservative and it often hurts the cause. "Pure" libertarians chastised Cuccinelli for no good reason and as a result we don't have a libertarian in charge of Virginia. We don't have someone who could have proven that libertarian ideology works in power.

Ummm...Gary Johnson ran New Mexico for 8 years as a Republican who was really a libertarian. And then many years later he saw the light--and by light got pissed off by the GOP and went into the Libertarian Party.

I also really think Gary Johnson is a good thing for the LP's future. Granted, the future there is mixed cause of Johnson's new-ish PAC that supports libertarian-Republicans.


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Or maybe, just maybe, a lot of people tend to vote third party because that is where they lean ideologically. My friend votes Green because that's where he lies when the Democrat isn't left enough for him. I often vote Libertarian when I find myself agreeing more with the Libertarian candidate than the Republican candidate.

It's called being a rational voter. People often just don't throw away their vote that doesn't have any meaning.
Here's the thing....I really hate the GOP. I don't want to vote for them...but from what I've seen, read and know of Huntsman Jr, Rand Paul and Justin Amash...those are the only people that would make me second and third guess myself voting for the LP. Who am I voting for in 2016. Gary Johnson if he runs--yes, even if he runs as a GOPer--I'll admit it, I'd vote for him. I've said it...make it into a damn sig....I really don't think he'd go back to the GOP though...cause of Rand Paul blocking him getting nomination. I know I read Libertarians or Republicans wanted him to run for the Senate in 2014...

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Old 01-30-2014, 11:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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It's called being a rational voter. People often just don't throw away their vote that doesn't have any meaning.
I have voted for a 3rd party out of protest of not liking the 2 candidates more then actually liking the person and all his policies I voted for. If I didn't vote for that 3rd party person I would have voted for a completely different 3rd party who i might agree with on one issue or not voted at all

3rd party votes to me are basically none of the above but I will throw a little support to the cause of what 3rd party candidate X says about issue X.

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Old 01-30-2014, 11:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Libertarian Robert Sarvis, who ran for Governor, now running for Senate.

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I know that this doesn't have a lot of substance, but **** Sarvis. He essentially cost a libertarian Republican the victory in Virginia governor race.
In fairness, Cuccinelli is the man most responsible for his own loss. His opponent may have painted him everything you said, but Cuccinelli gave him the paint. Everything he did as attorney general came back to haunt him.

Supporting Arizona's Neo Nazi-sponsored immigration law (and I'm not using the term Neo Nazi as a pejorative here, the law's sponsor actually had Neo Nazi ties), check.

Going against gay nondiscrimination laws, check.

Investigating a climate scientist for no discernible reason other than petty politics, check.

Calling medicare despicable, check.

...I could go on.

I don't know much about the Sarvis, or the guy who won, but this man, shouldn't be governor of anything.

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