Famke finally speaks her mind about the treatment of Phoenix in X3

[Majik1387]

With how vocal Berry was about her role and how she fought for it before and during X3, why don't you understand why Famke was most likely referring to her?

As for the Cure storyline, I felt it would have been a good subplot to have an all out storyline possibly leading to a modified Legacy Virus story for a fourth movie.

[liamoversion2]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

With how vocal Berry was about her role and how she fought for it before and during X3, why don't you understand why Famke was most likely referring to her?

As for the Cure storyline, I felt it would have been a good subplot to have an all out storyline possibly leading to a modified Legacy Virus story for a fourth movie.

I think this is the most important point about the script and the general direction of the film. The cure and Phoenix story-lines actually do 'dovetail' pretty well. The idea to have Magneto vying for Jean's loyalty over Xavier with the intent of using her as a weapon was brilliant and up to the scene at Jean Grey's house, that aspect of the film wasn't going so badly, it just needed to be fleshed out a lot more. But after that it falls into absurdity. The story should have followed Jean more and how Magneto manipulates her in some way, giving her cause to go nuts at the end. Magneto should have taken on the role of Mastermind in the original Phoenix story-line, except with the intent of terrorism.

The cure should have been left lingering in the background, and should only have come to the foreground when it becomes apparent just how powerful Jean has become- giving real cause for the use of the cure as a weapon against mutants. i.e., initially, it's offered completely on a voluntary basis (this would have been a great backdrop) but then with the main drama of Jean/Phoenix playing out through the course of the film, the government's intentions for the cure would alter dramatically.

It seems obvious to me that the film would have been a million times better if it had gone in this direction. Because as it stands, Jean is just a psycho who kills a load of people for no reason. That does not a story make.

Haven't visited these boards in a long while but I'm finally happy to hear Famke's opinions on that film. And, I'm pretty sure she's talking about Halle.

I had not heard of Anna's displeasure with what they did to her either. Is there an article or comments I can read about that?

[Majik1387]

Anna's comments were sorta in a group interview, Halle was in it too. Halle was talking bout Storm and at some point Anna went like "At least your character flies. I just touch people" or something like that

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

With how vocal Berry was about her role and how she fought for it before and during X3, why don't you understand why Famke was most likely referring to her?

But the point is that BOTH actresses were/are complaining about the exact same thing: more screentime. Truth is, Storm should've gotten proper focus in the prior films. So Halle had to yell about it to get it corrected and that unfortunately didn't happen until X3.

Now Famke is complaining about the same slight. *shrugs*

But is possible that Famke was referring to Hugh as well--he made more than Halle AND Famke put together...and he dominated all 3 of the movies to everyone's detriment.

[Majik1387]

Sorry, but Storm was never much of a lead character when dealing with Professor X, Magneto, Rogue or Wolverine. Cyclops was Prof X's first student, and jean the first X-lady; It was right for Storm to take a back seat to Jean.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

Sorry, but Storm was never much of a lead character when dealing with Professor X, Magneto, Rogue or Wolverine. Cyclops was Prof X's first student, and jean the first X-lady; It was right for Storm to take a back seat to Jean.

Not sure if you're referring to the comics or the film adaptation but I believe you may be incorrect on both accounts.

Storm was the lead female in the X-comics for a long time--especially with the new line-up. During that time frame she and Jean ran about even, but for a while Jean played second fiddle to her--especially after Storm took leadership.

In the films, Storm was "supposed" to be one of Charles' original students along with Scott, Jean and later Logan. In neither version was she treated correctly. She was totally underdeveloped by all accounts, hence the tremendous backlash from the fanbase.

Now, I'm not saying that she shouldn't have taken a back seat to Jean in X3--she definitely should have--but if she had been treated properly from jump there wouldn't have been a need to mediate the problem so late in the game.

[BMM]

Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez!

But the point is that BOTH actresses were/are complaining about the exact same thing: more screentime. Truth is, Storm should've gotten proper focus in the prior films. So Halle had to yell about it to get it corrected and that unfortunately didn't happen until X3.

Kind of. It’s not as though Berry’s wishes went unnoticed until the third film though. Prior to X2, she commented about the lack of screentime in X-Men and that she wanted to show a more nurturing side of the character. Both comments were noted. She easily had a boost in screentime compared to the first film and they showed a more nurturing side of the character. In addition, she wanted a Storm origin story, but she didn’t receive one, which put her in the same boat as everyone else. After X2, it then became an issue of not only wanting more screentime but also wanting a more prominent voice and so on and so forth.

http://www.comics2film.com/index.php?a=story&b=20&c=2

Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez!

Now Famke is complaining about the same slight. *shrugs*

True. Although, I think Janssen’s logic holds more weight than Berry’s in this instance. If the X-Men movies gave Storm the shaft while purporting to tell a Storm related story, then I would be more understanding… but they didn’t, nor did they ever claim to. X-Men: The Last Stand, however, did set out to tell a Jean Grey related story, and, to the detriment of the movie, they left it hanging.

Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez!

But is possible that Famke was referring to Hugh as well--he made more than Halle AND Famke put together...and he dominated all 3 of the movies to everyone's detriment.

I think Janssen is referring to both Berry and Jackman. While Storm is thrust into the forefront, Wolverine ultimately hogs the screen--and Jackman was a producer, which lends him more say in the production process than Berry. There is even an article in which Rothman discusses running the cure idea by Jackman and that if Jackman didn’t like it, they were f----ed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/12/business/media/12movie.html?ex=1307764800&en=771420df168faa00&ei= 5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[Phoenix_Flare]

They could've still kept the cure story and the Phoenix story the problem with X3 was the script wasn't that well developed. One could easily tell that the writer(s) didn't know what to do with certain characters keeping his or her scene(s) 5 mins. top.
The cure story should've had excellent dialogue between Xavier,Rogue,Beast,Storm, gangs of mobs, anti-mutant gangs(think Friends of Humanity) and w/Phoenix should they give Jean the cure?

X3 wasn't that bad of movie, like I said b4 a lot of the scenes could've been better written, had more emotion/depth which is what Singer's crew did...Truth be told we dont know what Singer had planned for his X3 maybe it was the Phoenix/cure plot, but knowin Brian he would've balance both storylines perfectly...

[Phoenix_Flare]

Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez!

Not sure if you're referring to the comics or the film adaptation but I believe you may be incorrect on both accounts.

Storm was the lead female in the X-comics for a long time--especially with the new line-up. During that time frame she and Jean ran about even, but for a while Jean played second fiddle to her--especially after Storm took leadership.

In the films, Storm was "supposed" to be one of Charles' original students along with Scott, Jean and later Logan. In neither version was she treated correctly. She was totally underdeveloped by all accounts, hence the tremendous backlash from the fanbase.

Now, I'm not saying that she shouldn't have taken a back seat to Jean in X3--she definitely should have--but if she had been treated properly from jump there wouldn't have been a need to mediate the problem so late in the game.

I don't think Storm should have taken a backseat to Jean in X3 what they should have done is shown the sisterly bond that those 2 have. I can think of 2 scenes where Storm could have expressed her feelings for Jean: 1) the balcony scene that was obvisouly cut short I mean why would Storm be on the verge of tears i.e. rain clouds if she wasn't thinkin of Jean 2) when Logan is goin to leave the mansion n search for Jean, Storm could've expressed her concern and love instead of attacking her...The one thing bout all these char. is that they all have a bond and the only bond we saw in all 3 films was Logan/Rogue...

Phoenix,

Famke still has the biggest beef over Halle's problems simply because Singer was setting up the Phoenix Saga since the first film. It came to the climax in X2 and everyone knew that the Phoenix Saga was the next thing coming in the third film. Hell, even Bryan Singer said in either a commentary or interview that he had planned to give Jimmy Marsden a much more central role in the third film...ie, the Phoenix Saga. Again, it was plain as day what Singer was going to do if he directed the third film.

Famke's complain is that it wasn't treated with the proper respect in The Last Stand and she's totally right. The cure storyline and the Phoenix story could've easily co-existed in the same film. It just need a much, much better script and a longer running time than the film we got.

She's pretty much on point with her criticisms of that film.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Originally Posted by J.Howlett

Phoenix,

Famke still has the biggest beef over Halle's problems simply because Singer was setting up the Phoenix Saga since the first film. It came to the climax in X2 and everyone knew that the Phoenix Saga was the next thing coming in the third film. Hell, even Bryan Singer said in either a commentary or interview that he had planned to give Jimmy Marsden a much more central role in the third film...ie, the Phoenix Saga. Again, it was plain as day what Singer was going to do if he directed the third film.

Famke's complain is that it wasn't treated with the proper respect in The Last Stand and she's totally right. The cure storyline and the Phoenix story could've easily co-existed in the same film. It just need a much, much better script and a longer running time than the film we got.

She's pretty much on point with her criticisms of that film.

Agreed with all of this, the movie should have been MUCH longer, Superman Returns or at least Transformers length, and it should have dealt with its issues rather than showing us them and simply moving onto the next action scene. Video Games from 15 years ago have more story and depth than X3, the movie was just a travesty, and i'm glad the cast are now acknowledging that.

[Phoenix_Flare]

Originally Posted by liamoversion2

I think this is the most important point about the script and the general direction of the film. The cure and Phoenix story-lines actually do 'dovetail' pretty well. The idea to have Magneto vying for Jean's loyalty over Xavier with the intent of using her as a weapon was brilliant and up to the scene at Jean Grey's house, that aspect of the film wasn't going so badly, it just needed to be fleshed out a lot more. But after that it falls into absurdity. The story should have followed Jean more and how Magneto manipulates her in some way, giving her cause to go nuts at the end. Magneto should have taken on the role of Mastermind in the original Phoenix story-line, except with the intent of terrorism.

The cure should have been left lingering in the background, and should only have come to the foreground when it becomes apparent just how powerful Jean has become- giving real cause for the use of the cure as a weapon against mutants. i.e., initially, it's offered completely on a voluntary basis (this would have been a great backdrop) but then with the main drama of Jean/Phoenix playing out through the course of the film, the government's intentions for the cure would alter dramatically.

It seems obvious to me that the film would have been a million times better if it had gone in this direction. Because as it stands, Jean is just a psycho who kills a load of people for no reason. That does not a story make.

I like how you think (LOL)...I don't think they did a good job showing how fragile Jean's mind was. I mean they could've had a scene where Psylocke took the role of Emma Frost from the comics and had her tap into Jean's mind and then Magneto did his thing or if Mystique wasn't cured their could've been scene(s) where Mystique was impersonating Scott and she/he was encouraging Jean to bad things taking advantage of her in her weaken condition and when she finds out Mystique was Scott really have her go off the deep end or their Brotherhood in general should have bee out committing terrorist attacks and Jean/Phoenix did the worst then it would've made the cure seem so more prominent for the gov. to make cure weapons and explain why the cure is needed...

[thegameq]

Originally Posted by Neptune

I still don't get why they used the cure storlyline when the Phoenix storyline was already set up in X-2. Why would they want to do both of them half assed at the same time when they could have done just one of them and really nail it?

According to Fox execs no one ever said anything about X3 being the Phoenix Saga. I guess Singer must have snuck the ending of X2 past them.

This franchise desperately needs to revert back to Marvel.

[Storm22]

Originally Posted by thegameq

This franchise desperately needs to revert back to Marvel.

Agreed and I'd love to see that happen sooner rather than later. I'd much prefer a continuation of the current X-Men films than have to wait years for a reboot. I don't think X-Men needs a reboot at all.

Having said that though I don' know if even Marvel would be the saviour of the X-Men films, I just read a few days ago that the studio has already slated Iron Man 2 for an April 2010 release without even consulting Faverau or having any form of script/development done, they seem to want to rush release IM2 which is worrying.

[BMM]

Originally Posted by thegameq

According to Fox execs no one ever said anything about X3 being the Phoenix Saga. I guess Singer must have snuck the ending of X2 past them.

I think the executives had some idea. Lauren Shuler Donner makes note on the X2 DVD commentary that Fox deserves credit for letting them kill Jean, as there was a lot of back and forth discussion about whether or not it would be allowed. If they actually had to sneak Jean's death by the studio, then kudos to them for doing it.

[Angamb]

Originally Posted by Lightning Strykez!

But is possible that Famke was referring to Hugh as well--he made more than Halle AND Famke put together...and he dominated all 3 of the movies to everyone's detriment.

finally someone names Hugh too!!

Hugh Jackman/wolverine was the main problem of the x-men trilogy, if he would have had less screentime, other characters would have been better treated.

[Storm22]

Originally Posted by Angamb

Hugh Jackman/wolverine was the main problem of the x-men trilogy, if he would have had less screentime, other characters would have been better treated.

Agreed!

[MoPlaYa]

I dont blame Hugh..I blame Fox and Ratner

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I never used to blame Hugh, but seeing as he was the producer on X3, he did have some pull, all of that seemed to go into getting himself the most screentime, ruining the main core of The Pheonix Saga, i have lost a lot of respect for him.

[Majik1387]

Hugh was not the only producer, and he wasn't the producer that put in the most money to fund the movie, so I fail to see how he is at blame.

[BMM]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

Hugh was not the only producer, and he wasn't the producer that put in the most money to fund the movie, so I fail to see how he is at blame.

I wouldn’t say Jackman is to blame for the way the movie turned out. In my opinion, the blame ultimately lies with Fox and its poor business practices. That said, it appears Jackman has a certain amount of pull, as he is Fox’s cash cow. No one cares if Ralph Winter walks away. He can be replaced. Case in point—Tom Desanto. The same can’t be said for Jackman. Fox can always find more financiers for a proven money maker, or the studio can pick up the slack itself. It, however, can’t replace its star quite so easily. Look at X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Jackman seems to have a lot of influence regarding the creative decisions of that movie, yet he is only one of a handful of producers. Why does he have such an influence? Because, unlike Avi Arad and Louis G. Friedman, Jackman is the one people pay to see. If he’s a no show, the movie’s a no go.

[danoyse]

And I also remember reading awhile ago--I think it was in Variety, and I'm not sure how accurate this is--that as part of the distribution deal that Hugh's production company got with Fox, he had to do X3 and the Wolverine solo movie.

So I don't think it was a matter of Hugh just demanding tons of screentime and being the focus of the movie--the studio decided that from the beginning. And it wouldn't have been so easy for him to just walk away if it meant risking whatever deal his company had made with Fox.

The blame for what went wrong really lies with Fox. They had no idea (and really didn't care) what they had and wasted so many opportunities to make a better movie. I think anyone involved with the movie who is upset about it had every right to be.

[CB Fan]

Like thegameq said marvel really needs to just take the franchise under its wing, pay a fee to fox like they did with universal inorder to market and distribute hulk, and reboot.

[StormCrazy]

Leaving it hanging was I guess, the writer's and Ratner's idea so they can expand the franchise so they can make an X4 or 5 or 6. I would be sooo happy if they did that. Because I was "massively" disappointed with The Last Stand... leaving the theatre, I have so many thoughts in my head... "It just wasn't right!", "What the hell just happened!"... these are the thoughts in my head. I was expecting too much from the film that I just thought it fell short. It was the Phoenix's time to shine... the fire, the Phoenix Force... it's non-existent! I can forgive anything that is different from the comic book to film... but this, recognizable, significant element of the character that is nowhere to be seen! It just blew everything up! Completely disappointed! Juggernaut... not believable... random unpopular, villains... terrible, Colossus metal powers revamped... what the hell!, Rogue still get no action (still a runaway after 3 films) what the hell times 3!, death of three important X-Men (Cyclops, Jean..double death, Professor X) Lame-O! Though I'm happy about Iceman get to Ice-up... finally!, Storm getting a lot of action... satisfied!, But the biggest downer... Jean! special effects, superb! BUT, where is the Phoenix?! I'm still mourning for this movie... my chest is like crunched, every time I think about it...