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Old 06-12-2014, 10:29 AM   #401
CaptainWagner
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

Taking the logical conclusion that Gerald will be Dave/Whirlwind and Lilly will play Wasp (whether her name is Janet or not, I'll just go with Janet for the sake of clarity, though I'd rather her have a different name) I think, given the story they're telling, they could easily introduce their respective alter-egos/tech/powers in this film.

(Edit: My synopsis was a bit long, so I added the core of my idea at the bottom, if you don't care to read the whole thing. I tend to get long-winded at times)
  • One thing I think they may have wanted to rewrite was Wright's intitions not to have an actual villain. I think Elihas Starr and his quest to destroy Pym's legacy would be the best fit for the story they're going with.
  • So, have Dr. Starr be the one to recruit Scott into his heist. He gets put on a team along with Dave and "Janet" (later revealed as Pym's daughter, who is out for revenge on her father). Add a few other comic villains who wouldn't really work as "big bads" and you have the formation of the Masters of Evil
  • When, Lang steals the Ant-man suit, have it be in a wharehouse of Pym's projects. The rest of the team each is given their pick of the gear. Dave takes the Whirlwind program and "Janet" takes the Wasp suit, which Pym had built for her mother before their divorce.
  • The mission for which Scott signed up for is accomplished. He takes the money and leaves with Janet, infuriating Dave, who had been vying for her affection. But, before the duo can return home, they are captured by Pym and his government squad, who reveal that Starr had used the Masters to steal a key component to a weapon of mass destruction. He plans to detonate it, destroying a major city and framing Pym.
  • A battle ensues, in which Janet/Wasp defeats Dave/Whirlwind. However, it becomes apparent that whoever enters Starr's device to stop it will not come out alive. Pym, finally forgiven by Janet and inspired by Scott to finally overcome his flaws and be the hero, chooses to go in. He defeats Starr and stops the device, sacrificng his life in the process.
  • As the film ends, we see Scott reunited with his healed daughter and Pym's public image cleared. He is honored as a hero. Scott and Janet are cleared of criminal charges for their help in stopping the bomb. A possible post credit scene shows Dave in jail, with implications of his powers becoming ingrained at a genetic level and his obsession with Wasp.
Okay, so that ran a bit long, sorry. As someone looking into a career in film/screenwiting, I tend to do that occaisonally. But anyway, in a more brief way
  • The other characters could get their powers/tech from the same wherehouse that Scott steals the Ant-man suit from.


Last edited by CaptainWagner; 06-12-2014 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:50 PM   #402
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

If we have Rudd as Lang, then Darren Cross would be a smart script and VFX option.

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Old 06-19-2014, 10:33 PM   #403
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If we have Rudd as Lang, then Darren Cross would be a smart script and VFX option.
Called it.

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Old 06-21-2014, 12:45 AM   #404
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

All I know is if they use Yellowjacket as a villain them I'm OUT. I pray that rumor is BS.

If true, this will be the first Marvel film that I don't pay to see. It will ALSO be the first Marvel film that I actively crusade against, again if that is true.

To me, this is not like the Mandarin head fake of Iron Man 3. I enjoyed that concept very much. This is taking foundation material and crapping on legacy.

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Old 06-21-2014, 12:58 AM   #405
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

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All I know is if they use Yellowjacket as a villain them I'm OUT. I pray that rumor is BS.

If true, this will be the first Marvel film that I don't pay to see. It will ALSO be the first Marvel film that I actively crusade against, again if that is true.

To me, this is not like the Mandarin head fake of Iron Man 3. I enjoyed that concept very much. This is taking foundation material and crapping on legacy.
Ah, yes, because the Yellowjacket identity being used for evil is absolutely unheard of, right? Oh wait...



It's not even Pym in the suit; it's said to be Darren Cross. I don't understand why people are so mad about this when Pym's identities have been used by several villains in the comics. There's a good chance he won't even be called Yellowjacket in the film.


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Old 06-21-2014, 04:52 AM   #406
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

It actually seems to me Marvel is keen to cram as much of Ant-Man's story over the years in to this film as they can - hence both Pym and Lang as Ant-Man, and someone suiting up as an evil 'Yellowjacket'.

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Old 06-21-2014, 07:16 AM   #407
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

It sounds like itll be like another Iron Man Vs Iron Monger situation. Im fine with that. I really wanted to see Yellowjacket in this.

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Old 06-21-2014, 10:51 AM   #408
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

Given that Yellowjacket basically *is* a villain ID. . .

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Old 06-21-2014, 12:07 PM   #409
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

Yellowjacket being the villain is a nice mythology gag. I'm all for it. I wonder if his suit even has a little stinger weapon?

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Old 06-21-2014, 12:17 PM   #410
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It sounds like itll be like another Iron Man Vs Iron Monger situation. Im fine with that. I really wanted to see Yellowjacket in this.
Actually, I did too.

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Old 06-21-2014, 09:28 PM   #411
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

I'm excited to see Yellowjacket!

I have ZERO knowledge when it comes to Ant Man so I'm really excited to experience the cinematic world of Ant Man!

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Old 06-22-2014, 06:51 AM   #412
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

^^ The fact most of us dont know Ant Man really well will only make this movie more fun to watch. Theres no baggage or expectations (besides wanting it to be awesome).

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Old 06-22-2014, 08:39 AM   #413
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

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^^ The fact most of us dont know Ant Man really well will only make this movie more fun to watch. Theres no baggage or expectations (besides wanting it to be awesome).

As a long-time Marvelphile and Avengerphile since 1975, this is a nutshell summary of who Hank Pym is:

Hank Pym is an iconic and founding Avenger, known for 90% of his career as Giant-Man. He began his career as Ant-Man, but learned how to reverse the shrinking process early on to become giant-sized (he was "Ant-Man" for less than a dozen issues, as I recall), and he remained (remains) the true "giant" of The Avengers ever since. The "Ant-Man" suit disappeared entirely from the early 60s until the early 80s, when an Avengers writer resurrected the concept with Scott Lang and the whole "To Steal an Ant-Man" storyline on which this movie is primarily based. Pym let Lang keep the Ant-Man suit and identity and recruited him to the Avengers, and Pym and Lang were both Avengers (as Giant-Man and Ant-Man, respectively) until the early 2000s, when the proverbial **** hit the fan for the superteam (Disassembled, Lang's death, Civil War, Avengers Initiative, etc.)

Oh, and Hank Pym created Ultron by accident, and didn't find out about it until later.

So maybe the non-comic readers out there should be a bit more patient with comic readers who are absolutely correct in their observations that Movie Hank Pym bears absolutely no physical or story resemblance to Comic-Book Hank Pym. We're not just *****ing to *****; this is a bona-fide case of them INO'ing a major Marvel Universe character. I'm still cautiously optimistic about the whole Hank Pym thing, but the only reason I'm *slightly* more optimistic is due to the fact that Edgar Wright is finally off the project.

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Old 06-22-2014, 09:06 AM   #414
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

What Im hoping is that Douglas' Hank Pym will be portrayed as being the classic Ant Man the comic fans love (albeit in his past), but shown as his older self whos retired from the game. If they can do that in a good enough way, maybe the hardcore fans can accept it and even find it cool. Think about the dramatic aspects of the older retired hero passing the torch to a new one. It can be pretty effective as a story.

Im completely openminded to this movie at this point. Im not going to be negative about it unless I see it and its just not a good film.

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Last edited by TheVision; 06-22-2014 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 06-22-2014, 09:27 AM   #415
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

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So maybe the non-comic readers out there should be a bit more patient with comic readers who are absolutely correct in their observations that Movie Hank Pym bears absolutely no physical or story resemblance to Comic-Book Hank Pym. We're not just *****ing to *****; this is a bona-fide case of them INO'ing a major Marvel Universe character. I'm still cautiously optimistic about the whole Hank Pym thing, but the only reason I'm *slightly* more optimistic is due to the fact that Edgar Wright is finally off the project.
But I'm not seeing anything there about the personality or behavior of Hank Pym being in any way different from the movie version. The only thing I'm seeing different are the actions that surround him, the chronology, the creative choices of other Marvel movies, etc.

In other words, his role in the Avengers and his role in Ultron are taken away from him, but that has nothing to do with the character, just with his plots. The way I see it, a whole range of Hank Pym as Ant-Man stories exist in this universe (and take place the same time that Hank Pym was Ant-Man in the comics - i.e., the 60s and 70s). Is the complaint that he's not Giant Man? I really trying to figure out how Hank Pym's character is different in the movie from the comic book version aside from that his stories are already completed from our perspective.

ETA: TheVision is describing what I have in mind. I understand that iconic Hank Pym interactions have been deprived of the audience, but I still think it's possible to do a movie version of Hank Pym that does justice to the character himself even if his adventures are not replicas of the stories he had in the comics.

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Old 06-22-2014, 10:21 AM   #416
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

Ant-Man vs Yellowjacket? I'm down with that.

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Old 06-22-2014, 11:23 AM   #417
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

I agree with a lot of you that there isn't a whole lot to Pym's story so the expectations don't have to be as high; however, there are a few key points to him that you just cannot change.

1. He is the original Ant-Man/Giant Man

2. Wasp is his love interest

3. He builds Ultron

To me, it sounds like they are going to change at least two of the three, and that would kill any interest I have in seeing this version.

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Old 06-22-2014, 11:31 AM   #418
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

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I agree with a lot of you that there isn't a whole lot to Pym's story so the expectations don't have to be as high; however, there are a few key points to him that you just cannot change.

1. He is the original Ant-Man/Giant Man

2. Wasp is his love interest

3. He builds Ultron

To me, it sounds like they are going to change at least two of the three, and that would kill any interest I have in seeing this version.
You forgot one: Hank is a hero.

Just in case they decide to make him the actual villain of the film somehow, which is what happened with the first Mission Impossible movie with Jim Phelps.

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Old 06-22-2014, 11:41 AM   #419
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

They still have the death of Pym's first wife Maria and father-in-law on his honeymoon in a communist revenge attack they can use. I'm sure they can get some drama out of that.

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Old 06-22-2014, 11:56 AM   #420
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

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I agree with a lot of you that there isn't a whole lot to Pym's story so the expectations don't have to be as high; however, there are a few key points to him that you just cannot change.

1. He is the original Ant-Man/Giant Man

2. Wasp is his love interest

3. He builds Ultron

To me, it sounds like they are going to change at least two of the three, and that would kill any interest I have in seeing this version.
Obviously Hank Pym is going to be the original Ant Man in the film since he created the suit/found Pym particles etc.

We know pretty much for sure hes not building Ultron since he hasnt been intro'd in the MCU yet (also see: Avengers: Age of Ultron)

How much do those #2 and 3 things really affect one specific story about him for this movie? Not much really. Wasp may or may not be included in the film, hopefully she will.

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Old 06-22-2014, 12:45 PM   #421
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

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Originally Posted by Marvelocity View Post
I agree with a lot of you that there isn't a whole lot to Pym's story so the expectations don't have to be as high; however, there are a few key points to him that you just cannot change.

1. He is the original Ant-Man/Giant Man

2. Wasp is his love interest

3. He builds Ultron

To me, it sounds like they are going to change at least two of the three, and that would kill any interest I have in seeing this version.
Ultron is hardly this film's fault, though. That's water under the bridge by that point. However, let's suppose Age of Ultron did not exist as a movie. Did you expect Ultron in the first Ant-Man film? The claim is that this particular movie presents a character that is Hank Pym in name only. I disagree with that if you judge the movie solely on its own merits (at least based on everything we've heard so far).

Janet I agree with. If they make put Lang and Janet together, I would have some problems with that.

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You forgot one: Hank is a hero.
Well, it seems he will be a hero in this story (original rumors notwithstanding). However, even in the rumored version, he was still a hero. He had the 60s, 70s, etc. to do heroic things in.

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Old 06-22-2014, 01:01 PM   #422
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

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Ultron is hardly this film's fault, though. That's water under the bridge by that point. However, let's suppose Age of Ultron did not exist as a movie. Did you expect Ultron in the first Ant-Man film? The claim is that this particular movie presents a character that is Hank Pym in name only. I disagree with that if you judge the movie solely on its own merits (at least based on everything we've heard so far).

Janet I agree with. If they make put Lang and Janet together, I would have some problems with that.



Well, it seems he will be a hero in this story (original rumors notwithstanding). However, even in the rumored version, he was still a hero. He had the 60s, 70s, etc. to do heroic things in.
But even if he were a hero in the 60s and 70s but turned bad in present day, that would still ruin his character the way Mission Impossible 1 ruined Jim Phelps's character.

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Old 06-22-2014, 01:18 PM   #423
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

I don't think Mission Impossible ruined Jim Phelp's character mostly because I get the impression those who are fans of the original show just remove the film from the same continuity entirely. The different actor doesn't hurt that choice wither. I suppose it's an interesting question whether all the good that one did is undermined by a single bad act. I don't think anyone goes back and watches the original show and now views him as a bad guy.

Either way, it seems to be a bit of a moot point because it doesn't appear that Pym will be the bad guy. Whether he was once intended as one, I don't know, but it appears they've decided not to go down that road.

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Old 06-22-2014, 01:30 PM   #424
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

I don't think Pym was ever going to be the villain. Pym has always been talked about as a mentor character and co-lead in the movie.

I think Pym being a villain was wishful thinking of some who didn't like the character or think that Pym should be a villain because of his yellowjacket era in which he wasn't even an out and out villain.

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Old 06-22-2014, 01:44 PM   #425
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Default Re: The Villains of Ant-Man Thread

Well, I think lack of mention of any other villain also fueled the speculation. After all, Scott Lang was stealing his suit, it was possible for him to try and get back at him. Also, "concerns about the morality of the film" and "greater ties to the Marvel universe" (the cited reasons for the rewrites) fit with the Crosses replacing Pym as the villain.

Not saying it ever was the case, just that it is a possibility.

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