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Old 10-31-2016, 08:02 AM   #26
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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Originally posted by Indy1Jones



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Cavill looks like he is wearing a black supersuit

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Old 10-31-2016, 01:02 PM   #27
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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I think you misunderstand me. I am not saying Cavill is a bad actor. He does fine with the material he is given. I am saying that the writing/material he is given is bad and a poor representation of the character. As such, I would not be upset if the Snyder Superman went the way of the dinosaur.
There isn't just one right or wrong way to present the character of Superman and certainly the way he is can differ, in an organic way, based on the stage of their life journey they are in during the period in which the story you're watching takes place.

Tyler and Henry both fit their respective narratives and both, to me, are portraying iconic and valid traits, conflicts, relationships, and themes one can find throughout the character's long and varied history.

I don't get your "go the way of the dinosaur" comment. No iteration of Superman is set in stone. The character is always being played by new people, in new stories, with new twists. Cavill's Superman isn't even finished his own hero's journey. We haven't seen him in his final form yet.

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Old 10-31-2016, 05:34 PM   #28
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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I like both versions. And Hoechlin's version is different from Cavill's for one good reason: Cavill's Superman has been active for 2-3 years, while Hoechlin's has been active for 15+ years. There was going to be a world of difference, not just because the CW version didn't want to copy the what had been in the DCEU.

I'm getting really sick of people bashing on Cavill's Superman; he IS Superman, and funny enough, Hoechlin's isn't perfect. Like I said in my review of S2E2, his stance on kryptonite makes him an idiot, that would make it impossible to see him team up with, or even trust, Batman if he ever appeared. The only way to fix it would be to show Superman in his next appearance why having it would be a good thing, but that feels so cliche that I don't want that. Also, if he decided to give Batman kryprtonite, and not back to Jonn, or both, it would make him a hypocrite.

But that, along with Snapper in S2E3, adds to a problem with the show that I'm seeing since this season started: if a character is arguing against Supergirl or Superman, they are just wrong even if they're right, all because those two are big stars as well as household names.

What was I talking about? lol
Anyway, Hoechlin and Cavill's Supermans are good. Stop bashing Cavill's.

I think most people that are doing the bashing are bashing Snyder's version of Superman. Not the actor playing Superman. My main problem is Snyder's Superman was so wooden and lacking in personality.
It was all suit with nothing much inside other than muscles. Other versions were a likable farm kid in the big city that took as much joy in saving an airplane as they did building a barn or other tasks to help
their neighbors. Snyder's Superman acted like he was slopping the hogs or shoveling manure when it came to saving people.

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Old 10-31-2016, 06:23 PM   #29
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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There isn't just one right or wrong way to present the character of Superman and certainly the way he is can differ, in an organic way, based on the stage of their life journey they are in during the period in which the story you're watching takes place.

Tyler and Henry both fit their respective narratives and both, to me, are portraying iconic and valid traits, conflicts, relationships, and themes one can find throughout the character's long and varied history.

I don't get your "go the way of the dinosaur" comment. No iteration of Superman is set in stone. The character is always being played by new people, in new stories, with new twists. Cavill's Superman isn't even finished his own hero's journey. We haven't seen him in his final form yet.
The problem I have with Cavill as Superman has nothing to do with his acting. Fact is I think he could pull off Superman perfectly (better then any one thus far) if he was written right. The problem is that Cavill isn't even close to the mark. He started off okay in Man of Steel (was rough around the edges but nothing couldn't be worked out) but then in Batman v Superman it was like they had no idea who Superman was and almost turned him in to Batman. He was a dark, brooding and depressing character and that just isn't Superman.

The reason for this has nothing to do with Snyder. While Snyder had some input in to the story line this was all on Chris Terrio and David Goyer. I lay most blame on Goyer who is a great writer just piss poor person to be writting for DC in general.

Goyer great for Batman but a bad choice for general DC films in general. He doesn't know how not to write dark films. Even Man of Steel was dark to a degree. This is why Superman was written poorly. Because Goyer is piss poor person to write for Superman. You need some one who can find that balance between light and dark. You need writer who can jump between writting Superman (who is a hopeful and optimistic character) to Batman (who is a dark, brooding character.)

If you took how Tyler Hoechlin Superman was written and put it in to Cavill Superman we would have the perfect Superman. Cavill looks like Superman and has the acting Chops to pull off Superman as well maybe even better then Hoechlin.

Bottom line is this all comes down to writting. They need to drop Goyer as there main go to writer. He is horrible pick to write DC films. They need some one a bit more balanced.

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Old 11-01-2016, 09:16 AM   #30
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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There isn't just one right or wrong way to present the character of Superman and certainly the way he is can differ, in an organic way, based on the stage of their life journey they are in during the period in which the story you're watching takes place.

Tyler and Henry both fit their respective narratives and both, to me, are portraying iconic and valid traits, conflicts, relationships, and themes one can find throughout the character's long and varied history.

I don't get your "go the way of the dinosaur" comment. No iteration of Superman is set in stone. The character is always being played by new people, in new stories, with new twists. Cavill's Superman isn't even finished his own hero's journey. We haven't seen him in his final form yet.
I disagree. Regardless of what phase the character is in, there are certain fundamental truths that make the character who they are. For example, Sherlock Holmes ceases to be Sherlock Holmes if he is not hyper-observant. There are certain aspects of a character that simply cannot be rewritten. I feel like the Snyder Superman is perverted to the point where he ceases to be Superman. But it's okay if you disagree.

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Old 11-01-2016, 10:46 AM   #31
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

Digital Spy with an article on what we could expect in a Superman spin off if it's to happen

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/supergi...actors-batman/


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Old 11-01-2016, 12:58 PM   #32
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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I disagree. Regardless of what phase the character is in, there are certain fundamental truths that make the character who they are. For example, Sherlock Holmes ceases to be Sherlock Holmes if he is not hyper-observant. There are certain aspects of a character that simply cannot be rewritten. I feel like the Snyder Superman is perverted to the point where he ceases to be Superman. But it's okay if you disagree.
What fundamental truths are we talking about here? What ones did Cavill break that Hoechlin upheld? What makes something a fundamental truth? For example, is a fundamental truth something that's repeated in canon a prescribed amount of times, or is it something that may have only appeared once in a successful Superman story? How do you think fundamental truths got started? Can it be something that appeared and was successful and repeated in subsequent works but not in the original (e.g. Action Comics #1 1938)? Can fundamental truths about characters be something that a character develops or grows into as part of his character development?

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Old 11-01-2016, 04:39 PM   #33
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

Can I just say that I am the unique one here, because my favorite version of Superman isn't from the animations, films, TV, or comics; it's actually from the novel, It's Superman! from Tom De Haven.

Just wanted to say that.

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Old 11-01-2016, 08:34 PM   #34
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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What fundamental truths are we talking about here? What ones did Cavill break that Hoechlin upheld? What makes something a fundamental truth? For example, is a fundamental truth something that's repeated in canon a prescribed amount of times, or is it something that may have only appeared once in a successful Superman story? How do you think fundamental truths got started? Can it be something that appeared and was successful and repeated in subsequent works but not in the original (e.g. Action Comics #1 1938)? Can fundamental truths about characters be something that a character develops or grows into as part of his character development?
You are very worked up over someone not liking the same things you like

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Old 11-01-2016, 08:49 PM   #35
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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Having just binged season 1 and not yet started season 2 or seen Hoechlin's portrayal, I will say that the DCEU is no reason to stall a Superman show. Hell, whatever it is we have in the DCEU sure as hell isn't Superman. The creative team of Supergirl, through instant messages from Clark, have captured the character better than Snyder has ever dreamed of. The whole tone of this show is precisely what Superman should have been on screen. Instead we are met with a dark, melancholy, joyless doppleganger on the big screen. If CW can give the audiences the Superman they deserve, I am all for it.
I agree, even before I saw S2, I was already preferring their portrayal just from those text messages alone. Thankfully when they finally brought him in, he matched the Clark we got in those messages perfectly.

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Side note --- It surprised me that Hoechlin was cast as Clark. Season one seems to suggest that Superman has been active for some time (at least in the 12 years Kara has been on Earth). Hoechlin isn't even 30.
Yeah they're going the old Silver Age "Kryptonians age super-slowly once their cells reach their prime" route (and do explicitly address it in the S2 premiere).

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Old 11-01-2016, 10:47 PM   #36
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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Originally Posted by misslane38 View Post
There isn't just one right or wrong way to present the character of Superman and certainly the way he is can differ, in an organic way, based on the stage of their life journey they are in during the period in which the story you're watching takes place.

Tyler and Henry both fit their respective narratives and both, to me, are portraying iconic and valid traits, conflicts, relationships, and themes one can find throughout the character's long and varied history.

I don't get your "go the way of the dinosaur" comment. No iteration of Superman is set in stone. The character is always being played by new people, in new stories, with new twists. Cavill's Superman isn't even finished his own hero's journey. We haven't seen him in his final form yet.
Yeah there is, if superman wore a costume with a skull on it's chest and started killing everything and anything that moves, then that would be a wrong way to present the character.

As for Snyder's superman, well I wouldn't call that interpretation wrong because superman is still heroic but I would most certainly call the interpretation unsuccessful and I totally agree with Matt that snyder (like the dinosaurs) has had his reign and now he needs to recuse himself from superman (and preferably from the DCU proper) and direct something else.

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Can I just say that I am the unique one here, because my favorite version of Superman isn't from the animations, films, TV, or comics; it's actually from the novel, It's Superman! from Tom De Haven.

Just wanted to say that.
You know that's really interesting, because alongside miller's DKR and Snyder's versions, Tom De Haven's version of superman is the one I hate the most! Different strokes.

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Old 11-02-2016, 01:28 AM   #37
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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You know that's really interesting, because alongside miller's DKR and Snyder's versions, Tom De Haven's version of superman is the one I hate the most! Different strokes.
Really....

Are you kidding me?

Why?!

I consider DeHaven's Superman to be what Smallville, what Synder, even Burton as well, tried and either came close or didn't come close to all to what they wanted. Even if Snyder did a good job (I say he did), DeHaven's has something that Snyder's didn't.

I hate to hear you hate it, and maybe others do, because to goes to my frustration with...well....fanboys.

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Old 11-02-2016, 02:21 AM   #38
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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You are very worked up over someone not liking the same things you like
Worked up? I don't have a problem with different opinions. In fact, I want to understand yours better; hence my asking you questions. If you can't be bothered to answer with anything more than this dismissive jab of yours, then I can only assume you can't or don't feel like answering me. That's all you had to say and should have said, instead of just being rude.

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Old 11-02-2016, 02:31 AM   #39
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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Yeah there is, if superman wore a costume with a skull on it's chest and started killing everything and anything that moves, then that would be a wrong way to present the character.

As for Snyder's superman, well I wouldn't call that interpretation wrong because superman is still heroic but I would most certainly call the interpretation unsuccessful and I totally agree with Matt that snyder (like the dinosaurs) has had his reign and now he needs to recuse himself from superman (and preferably from the DCU proper) and direct something else.
I think you knew what I meant. In terms of Cavill vs Hoechlin. there's no right or wrong, just preference. Neither is flawless, as far as I'm concerned and neither diverges so much from the core (your skeleton example) to be apocryphal.

Snyder has been telling a story of Superman becoming. Saying you want him gone because of those growing pain stages (stages Hoechlin's Clark admits going through himself) when he's on track to evolve as he was meant to be is, in my view, hasty and unfair.

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Old 11-02-2016, 03:03 AM   #40
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

Can we please cut the Cavill vs Tyler ****, it got old ages ago.

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Old 11-02-2016, 07:33 AM   #41
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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Really....

Are you kidding me?

Why?!

I consider DeHaven's Superman to be what Smallville, what Synder, even Burton as well, tried and either came close or didn't come close to all to what they wanted. Even if Snyder did a good job (I say he did), DeHaven's has something that Snyder's didn't.

I hate to hear you hate it, and maybe others do, because to goes to my frustration with...well....fanboys.
Sadly I'm not kidding you, IMO DeHaven tried to give us yet another attempt at a 'relatable' CK/superman and just like every other writer (or film maker) who tried to make superman relatable he failed miserably IMO.
What annoyed me the most about his superman was the fact that he wasn't that bright, which is a product of the post-crisis/Byrne interpretation of the character. I don't miss alot of things from the silver age because they're mostly silly but one thing I will forever miss from that superman is his "a genius in intellect" trait that made the character so appealing to me. Despite of his unlimited power the silver age superman more often than not used his intellect to solve problems and beat his foes, something that the much weaker post-crisis version ironically failed to do very often.

To quell your fear and frustration I think 'it's superman' is well liked by many (atleast by those who even know of the novel's existence) so my opinion seems to be the exception rather than the rule.


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I think you knew what I meant. In terms of Cavill vs Hoechlin. there's no right or wrong, just preference. Neither is flawless, as far as I'm concerned and neither diverges so much from the core (your skeleton example) to be apocryphal.
I wasn't talking about Cavill vs Hoechlin because this thread is called Tyler Hoechlin is superman and not cavill vs Hoechlin. I mentioned Cavill's superman just to demonstrate that even though I detest Snyder's superman doesn't mean that it's not a legit interpretation.
But to be honest we should be talking about Tyler's superman and not cavill so after this post I will refrain from talking about anything else but tyler's superman.

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Snyder has been telling a story of Superman becoming. Saying you want him gone because of those growing pain stages (stages Hoechlin's Clark admits going through himself) when he's on track to evolve as he was meant to be is, in my view, hasty and unfair.
No it's perfectly fair, I myself and the majority of fans out there don't like Snyder's half ***ed 'deconstruction' of superman, not to mention that I don't think the character has evolved at all in over 5 hours of screen time and doesn't seem to be 'on track' to be going anywhere redeemable for the general movie audiences. If and that's a BIG if JL redeems superman like CW did for spidy then I will be the first to congratulate Snyder but until then all we have right now are 2 financially disappointing critically failed superman films with Snyder's name on them and so it's perfectly fair to want Snyder out and most of the movie audiences seem to agree on that.

Ok so like I said this is the last thing I will say about snyder's superman in tyler Hoechlin's superman thread.
I will also say that while I don't really like the CW shows I will give Berlanti and co. big props for giving us a unique superman, a superman who is experienced, optimistic, smart and oh so likable and that's the superman that I want to see because I've had my fill of the 'in development' superman that we've been saddled with all throughout smallville and the DCEU.

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Old 11-02-2016, 12:50 PM   #42
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

Watched the third episode last night with President Wonder Woman. Obviously Tyler's not in the episode, but I'm pleased he now appears in the intro section instead of that old shot of Superman's silhouette.

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Old 11-02-2016, 04:15 PM   #43
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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Sadly I'm not kidding you, IMO DeHaven tried to give us yet another attempt at a 'relatable' CK/superman and just like every other writer (or film maker) who tried to make superman relatable he failed miserably IMO.
But making him relatable is a good thing, a very good thing. If he's not, or overall perfect, no one would care about him. Thus, you need what you declare as "failures", as they helped succeed in making him last.

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What annoyed me the most about his superman was the fact that he wasn't that bright, which is a product of the post-crisis/Byrne interpretation of the character.
Actually, the author has talked about this criticism before. On The Thunder Child, he expressed his defense against that criticism which makes more sense than you realize. And to tell you the truth, that would be the case beyond just this:

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I've been startled and often disappointed, sometimes even disgusted, that some reviewers and bloggers have felt that I wrote about a Superman who was "dumb." I didn't, not at all but he is a young man who grew up in his time and his place and was educated according to the theories and with the tools of that context. (He went to Smallville High, not Phillips Exeter Academy, for crying out loud.) He worries that he's not smart enough to do the things that he wants to do, feels he should do, but he manages to put aside, if never completely overcome, those feelings of inadequacy, and to me that's heroic. Why would anyone think a 17-, 18-, 19-, 20-year old kid from a tiny farming town in eastern Kansas would move out into the greater world and immediately, instinctively believe he could compete with a big-city politician like Lex Luthor or engage in an easygoing man-to-man conversation with the President of the United States?

In the novel we take leave of Clark/Superman just before his 21st birthday, if we re-visited this version of the character when he was, say, 30, he'd be a very different, probably very confident individual because of his life experiences. My novel, however, shows him just when those life experiences are beginning. And frankly, if he had super-confidence at that point, I'd be worried about him. And I sure as hell wouldn't believe in him.
Ditto.

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Old 11-02-2016, 05:59 PM   #44
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

Guys, we have warned, and warned again about the Superman vs. Superman debate.

This is a thread about Tyler Hoechlin as Superman on the Supergirl series. PLEASE, keep it to that discussion.

Start a thread here.... http://forums.superherohype.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40 if you want to discuss who is the best.

I will start deleting posts if it continues....

Thank you, and post on.......

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Old 11-02-2016, 06:59 PM   #45
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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But making him relatable is a good thing, a very good thing. If he's not, or overall perfect, no one would care about him. Thus, you need what you declare as "failures", as they helped succeed in making him last.
Not necessarily, there can be a big difference between relatable and likeable and for me personally I prefer the latter.
Chris Reeve's superman or Hoechlin's superman or the STAS superman weren't relatable (nor were they perfect in any way or shape) but they were all charismatic, intelligent and likable and that's what makes a good superman for me.
SR, MOS and BvS all tried to make superman relatable and they all failed IMO. Same with the comics, the new 52 superman was supposed to be younger and more brash and more 'relatable' and it didn't work out hence we have Byrnes' older and wiser superman back.
smallville gets a pass because it was about CK and not superman.

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Actually, the author has talked about this criticism before. On The Thunder Child, he expressed his defense against that criticism which makes more sense than you realize. And to tell you the truth, that would be the case beyond just this:
Oh I get where the writer was coming from, his line of thinking was legit and made perfect sense but just because I understand it doesn't mean I have to like it.
Like I said previously, I've had my fill of the CK 'growing into' the superman role through trial and tribulation (MOS, BvS, Smallville and the new 52) and I want more of the older, wiser, more experienced superman that we got from Hoechlin and the rebirth superman.

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Old 11-11-2016, 11:25 PM   #46
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

Any news about him coming back??

Please?

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Old 11-11-2016, 11:49 PM   #47
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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Any news about him coming back??

Please?
Somewhere apparently people have read that he is on for 4 episodes, but I have yet to have that confirmed...

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Old 11-12-2016, 01:04 AM   #48
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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Somewhere apparently people have read that he is on for 4 episodes, but I have yet to have that confirmed...
His IMDb profile keeps changing. But since it's a fan-based site, any confirmations from there should be taken with a massive salt lick.

It would be a shocker if he were to appear in the crossover, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Old 11-12-2016, 04:14 PM   #49
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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Originally Posted by LL2K2 View Post
His IMDb profile keeps changing. But since it's a fan-based site, any confirmations from there should be taken with a massive salt lick.

It would be a shocker if he were to appear in the crossover, but I'm not holding my breath.
If he was in the cross-over then they kept a tight seal of secrecy, as they finished filming a while ago. If Superman was in it, it would have leaked by now.

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Old 11-12-2016, 05:49 PM   #50
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Default Re: Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Thome216 View Post
If he was in the cross-over then they kept a tight seal of secrecy, as they finished filming a while ago. If Superman was in it, it would have leaked by now.
Yep, they finished filming right at Popfest, I think they had a couple more scenes to shoot after they got back to Vancouver. So that was around the last of October, first of November.

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