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Old 06-25-2017, 11:41 AM   #26
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

That's most likely what they'll do. She'll have some kind of power or tech that allows her to look mostly normal most of the time, and then she'll go more "comic book" with her look in certain specific moments.

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Old 06-25-2017, 01:42 PM   #27
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

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Also I now ship #Karfoodie
Kaign?

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Old 06-25-2017, 01:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

I think that the reason why a lot of people keep fan-pairing Kara is because she tends to be written better/have more chemistry with characters who AREN'T her designated LI. Like Kara and Mon-el had decent chemistry, but it was more Melissa and Chris playing off of each as opposed to solid writing.

But Kara and Lena, or Kara and Cat, or Kara and Alex, or even Kara and Winn when they get to interact, etc. They all tend to be better written interactions and Kara has more chemistry with them than with Mon-el or James.

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Old 06-25-2017, 02:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

Or some shows are just shipper bait. Though, now that I think about it, CW tends to be heavily shipper bait...

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Old 06-25-2017, 03:09 PM   #30
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

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Or some shows are just shipper bait. Though, now that I think about it, CW tends to be heavily shipper bait...
The WB/CW started out as a shipper network. 7th Heaven, Gilmore Girls, One Tree Hill, Reba, Dawson's Creek.

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Old 06-25-2017, 03:17 PM   #31
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

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I think that the reason why a lot of people keep fan-pairing Kara is because she tends to be written better/have more chemistry with characters who AREN'T her designated LI. Like Kara and Mon-el had decent chemistry, but it was more Melissa and Chris playing off of each as opposed to solid writing.

But Kara and Lena, or Kara and Cat, or Kara and Alex, or even Kara and Winn when they get to interact, etc. They all tend to be better written interactions and Kara has more chemistry with them than with Mon-el or James.
Although I am one that hopes we get less...much less Mon-el/Kara relationship stuff this next season, I'm sorry....but their chemistry was off the charts. That first kiss, very first thing that popped in my mind.....holy crap, these 2 have something going on (long before knowledge of the divorce, long before knowledge of Chris and Melissa dating, long before any of that). So, no.....sorry, totally disagree with Kara having more chemistry with others more so than Mon-El. #1...totally different chemistry. There is a sexual chemistry, friend chemistry, etc.....theirs is MOST DEFINITELY an off the charts sexual chemistry...to say otherwise IMO, means more study in chemistry is needed.
  • Alex and Kara, you bet, IMO the best sister relationship I have seen...ever.
  • Kara and Cat, love the balcony scenes, but I just read a little bit of a fan fiction where they are secret lovers....YUK, NO.
  • Kara and Lena, I just haven't felt the friendship thing yet between them. NOT THAT it won't come, I think it will this next season, I just never saw that they had the strong friendship that the writers seem to have written in the last few episodes. Apparently there were lots of lunches and brunches that we didn't see.
  • Kara and James, nuttin honey.

However, as I stated before, I don't mind Kara and Mon-el having a relationship, I just don't want it to take up an entire episode, after episode, after episode, after episode. I want some sister time in there as well. As well as any of the other relationships, I'm cool with all of them, just so they don't take up entire episodes and take time away from what should be the central focus in all episodes and that is Kara's story.

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Old 06-25-2017, 08:13 PM   #32
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

The thing that kept me from being too enthusiastic about the Kara/Mon-El relationship, or pardon me, *karamel*, is it? was that it was mostly about her reforming him which I just didn't think was a great dynamic.

It forced Kara to spend time being "the mature one," or admonishing him for being selfish and immature. Sometimes that made her come across as a little condescending, or even slightly conceited (Rhea criticizes her for that at one point).

So I didn't think it was a great dynamic for that reason. But I didn't think it was a chemistry problem.

On the whole, I would just rather that the bulk of the character material for Kara not focus on her trying to get her boyfriend to behave better.


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Old 06-25-2017, 08:43 PM   #33
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

I thought Kara and Mon-El had great chemistry, just more comedic chemistry than romantic. I saw the POTENTIAL for great romantic chemistry, but that was squandered by the writers rushing the romance so the sexual tension never really "got there" for me. And once they actually hooked up I just wasn't feelin' it at all (the writing certainly didn't help there).

And yes, I don't ship Kara/Lena beyond friendship at all but there are definitely scenes there that seem more romantic in nature than intended due to chemistry, imo. I swear half the time it seemed like Lena was about to make a move on Kara, lol.

But Lena and Alex are really the only two people I've seen Melissa have chemistry with that's not Mon-El (and to be clear, I'm referring to pure sisterly chemistry with Alex!). DEFINITELY don't see it with Cat, and still never saw it with James or Winn.

I completely agree with Flemm on the Kara/Mon-El relationship dynamics. That was just rubbish writing, as I never saw them as equals or partners, and I hope never to have to watch several episodes of Kara reforming her boyfriend ever again. That was just frustrating as hell to sit through.

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Old 06-25-2017, 11:10 PM   #34
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

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Just hope they don't put her in a rubber Halloween mask. It's fine for bit part characters like the Maaldorians but not for a season long main character.
Is J'onn still GCI or do they now use make-up and prosthetics. I think he is a great looking character.
I honestly wish they'd switch to prosthetics for John or at least partially. He'd be able to spend more time as a martian, and it might honestly look better.

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Old 06-26-2017, 02:59 AM   #35
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

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The thing that kept me from being too enthusiastic about the Kara/Mon-El relationship, or pardon me, *karamel*, is it? was that it was mostly about her reforming him which I just didn't think was a great dynamic.

It forced Kara to spend time being "the mature one," or admonishing him for being selfish and immature. Sometimes that made her come across as a little condescending, or even slightly conceited (Rhea criticizes her for that at one point).

So I didn't think it was a great dynamic for that reason. But I didn't think it was a chemistry problem.

On the whole, I would just rather that the bulk of the character material for Kara not focus on her trying to get her boyfriend to behave better.
I think the idea was supposed to be that Kara never got the chance to raise Kal-El. She had been sent to Earth-38 to raise the infant Kal-El.
But by the time she got there Kal-El had already grown up to become Superman. So she felt she didn't really have a purpose anymore.
When Mon-El came to Earth-38 she saw it as her chance to get to mentor someone new to Earth-38. A way of fulfilling her destiny. So of course she
was going to come off bossy. Because in her eyes Mon-El was the infant Kal-El that she was trying to raise. She was sort of his mommy. And even more
so the people of Daxam were the enemies of the people of Krypton. So she had to overcome that too. Last season was Kara learning to be
Supergirl. This season was the growth of Kara. Looking at it from that perspective everything she did and said made perfect sense.

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Old 06-26-2017, 08:10 AM   #36
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

Well, Kara will come off as Kryptonian to people that had relations with the Kryptonians either bad or good. She lived there for 12-13 years. So for Rhea to have seen more of her Kryptonian side is totally plausible. She is Kryptonian....she even lapsed into their cadence way of speaking when she got flustered at Mon-el when she was questioning him at the DEO. That will probably never leave her all together, nor should it.

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Old 06-26-2017, 08:45 AM   #37
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

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This season was the growth of Kara. Looking at it from that perspective everything she did and said made perfect sense.
Well, something can make sense and still not be the greatest creative choice.

You make some interesting points, and I did pick up on at least some of those things during the season, but I'm not 100% convinced by that line of reasoning.

For one thing, she was sent to protect Kal-El, right? Not to be his mum.

And having Kara fill almost a parenting role with regard to Mon-El is precisely the part that I thought didn't really create the best material for Kara.

There was a series of episodes in which it almost felt like the writers were assuming Kara was perfect already, and that Mon-El just needed to be like her. Which is not good character writing, in my view, because it doesn't allow any room for growth on Kara's part, or really give the actress a lot to work with.

Benoist could be charming doing almost anything, from collecting stamps to being the world's most adorable serial killer, or anything in between, but I still think season 2 left a lot of room for improvement in this area.

On the flipside, I agree with flickchick that Kara and Mon-El had really good comedic chemistry and that Mon-El sometimes worked very well as a goofy sidekick.


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Old 06-26-2017, 09:00 AM   #38
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

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Also I now ship #Karfoodie
I ship Kara with you. KaraKel.

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Old 06-26-2017, 10:54 PM   #39
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For one thing, she was sent to protect Kal-El, right? Not to be his mum.
This is a fair point, but I think this was given to her as a task to help her as much as Kal. They already Kara and Kal will have powers so they know they will be relatively safe, what they dont know is about their emotional well being. Finding Kal and caring for him insures that she wouldnt be alone.

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And having Kara fill almost a parenting role with regard to Mon-El is precisely the part that I thought didn't really create the best material for Kara.
In season 1 they very badly mishandled feminism and in season 2 it was handled very well, and her being a mentor to him plays into those politics of feminism. This the first time in any superhero show or movie I can think of where a female superhero mentored a male superhero and no one gave this dynamic another thought.

Sure at times they behaved like 2 kids in the backseat of a very long car ride. This however fed into a major theme of the season of immigration/racism as Kara realizes she is indeed racist and learns to overcome it with Mon-El.

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There was a series of episodes in which it almost felt like the writers were assuming Kara was perfect already, and that Mon-El just needed to be like her. Which is not good character writing, in my view, because it doesn't allow any room for growth on Kara's part, or really give the actress a lot to work with.
There was no growth for supergirl this season as she hit the ground running in season 2. In most situations it was her plan they went with to defeating the villains, from the Metallos, to sending J'onn up to confront Rhea disguised as supergirl.

Kara however was a mess really. She chose a profression and felt entitled to it even expecting Cat to go tell Snapper to respect her, to which Cat said no. She got fired from that job for not respecting it and ultimately having to actually be a reporter to get it back. plus things I mentioned previously.

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Old 06-27-2017, 02:00 AM   #40
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

Here's the thing, if you want Kara to have a "parenting role" towards Mon-el, ok. That could work.

But then don't at the same time, don't make him her primary LI, and don't have her have sex with him (and it's the only time that we've gotten 100% no doubt about it) confirmation that Kara has even had sex.

It's a really awkward dichotomy.

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Old 06-27-2017, 02:53 AM   #41
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Is the reign thread the right place for this?

Still, some thoughts.

I think Melissa and Chris had chemistry earlier and the comedic sidekick thing they had in some of the latter episodes were great! But, the romance was IMO not well written.

And... as for Kara's growth arc: I think there was a clear difference between the first half of the season and the second half of the season.

The first half of the season, it seemed that the writers had the following ideas in mind:
1. Racism: Kara faces up to her racial prejudices by meeting a Daxamite who is not her idea of a Daxamite
2. Growth via mentorship: Kara learns to become a better mentor by facilitating growth rather than demanding it (and certain way of growth)
3. Supergirl as Inspiration for growth: Mon El is inspired by Kara to become a superhero
4. Growth as a reporter: Kara realises that she has to start from the beginning again as far as reporting is concerned and learning it
and as addendums
5. Kara being the supportive sister instead of Alex
6. And Kara battling prejudices again and learning to work in grey areas with Lena

They managed all of the above with some of the earlier episodes. For example, E1 and E2 for prejudice, E3 for racism, E4 for racism and being a mentor (I really liked the conversation between Kara and Alex on that), E9 and the episode where Mon El gets kidnapped for inspiration and so on.

The thing is: I think they dropped most of these in the second half of the season.

Daxam was no longer a complex culture about which Kara didn't know much about. They were slave holders, folks who kept the lower rungs on drugs and pain, and just about the worst folks you would encounter on this world. Mon El seemed like the only exception (among upper classes at least) and even he was inspired by Kara to reevaluate at his culture.

Where is Kara facing issues of prejudices and racism in all of these? Apparently, she was right to think bad of Daxam because Daxamites were pretty bad. (Daxam was thoroughly reduced in the entire process).

The Menteeship, if it can be called that, became all about Mon El being wrong all the time and Kara telling him what to do instead of supporting him.

Then, as far as romance/inspiration thing was concerned, you had a number of episodes where Mon El does something wrong, Kara calls him out on it, he apologises, and she takes him back. And apparently, he "grows."

Even the reporter thing was treated as if Kara was right all the time and snapper was somehow wrong in not believing her. (When it was touched up on that is; even though she did lose her job over it). She does say she made a mistake, but then, how the story goes doesn't support what she says.

As for the sister thing: Alex was having a storyline of her own which barely touched hers until "Alex" (and then they flipped Kara's entire character just to prop it and Maggie up).

Where's Kara's growth in all that?

The understated feminism thing: I just don't see how Kara being right all the time and Mon El learning to be not so thoughtless and Kara basically having to build him a roadmap for how to be better boyfriend a great example of subtle feminism.

In fact, the second half of the season is why so many folks thought it was quite the opposite of feminism and Mon El was a bad example. Women/girlfriends having to teach their partners to be better seems cliched and even dangerous (at its extreme).

Also, speaking from the POV of a non-American (since Supergirl also caters to an international audience even if it never takes that into account in storylines):

Portraying a women as a goddess, infallible and the mother who teaches the guy to be better is not exactly conducive to feminism. India has a very strong goddess theme in our religion, created mostly by men and for men (AFAIK Goddess temples are the ones where you need to be past 12 days of your menstrual cycle to enter). The Goddess is the ultimate force (Shakti), and is the mother as well; who teaches men to be better while also being forgiving when he messes up.

That has not translated into women being considered equal to men. It has among other things led to the idea that women are all forgiving, so it is her duty to teach men and if she doesn't forgive, she is not all that great (and so is judged for that). That she always gives and if she doesn't, then she is not living up to her "goddess" potential. (And you have several Indian movies where "men" learn to be better thanks to "womenly" influence. I wouldn't call any of those feminist).

But... That is all in the past (I meant SG storyline, not sexism in India); and hopefully, season 3 will be better, Mon El or no.

I agree by the way that S1 feminism was too in your face.

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Old 06-27-2017, 07:41 AM   #42
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In season 1 they very badly mishandled feminism and in season 2 it was handled very well, and her being a mentor to him plays into those politics of feminism. This the first time in any superhero show or movie I can think of where a female superhero mentored a male superhero and no one gave this dynamic another thought.
Other than mid-70s Wonder Woman, there haven't really been other such shows to go by. Given that the audience generally prefers a male superhero, it is difficult to pull off a female superhero that does not impact or diminish male egos, as she is more powerful, faster, etc than most, if not all, men on the show. It does make me wonder if the Martian Manhunter was introduced as a plot device to keep men engaged, especially those who would tune out a show without powerful male figures.

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Sure at times they behaved like 2 kids in the backseat of a very long car ride. This however fed into a major theme of the season of immigration/racism as Kara realizes she is indeed racist and learns to overcome it with Mon-El.
This might have been her only area of growth this season.

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There was no growth for supergirl this season as she hit the ground running in season 2. In most situations it was her plan they went with to defeating the villains, from the Metallos, to sending J'onn up to confront Rhea disguised as supergirl.
Some of which backfired on her and them, like her charging into battle to find her sister in the water tank.

That said, the show, by its nature suffers from what I call the star trek box; the main character is Supergirl, committed to truth, justice and decency, which means the only change or growth they can experience is towards evil - which would turn off a lot of the audience as their expectations of who and what she is would be obliterated. As Cat said, heros don't get to be human with depth; they have to be ideal role models all the time.

The only instances where that wouldn't apply would be red K supergirl, for a fun and temporary episode where the audience is willing to accept less than ideal behavior due to a temporary condition. Also the time on slaver's moon where she did not have the use of her powers, again temporarily.

This is a significant challenge for the writers of the show; how do you retain audience interest season after season when the main character is not allowed to change their perspective? The other characters surely can, as we've seen from Winn and Alex - but Kara/Supergirl operates in a rigid, narrow framework that cannot really be altered.


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Old 06-28-2017, 02:51 PM   #43
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On the topic of Reign, what if they try to shoe her in as a 'superfriend..?' Being basically Kryptonian, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to pass her off as a 'superwoman' or Power Girl.

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Old 06-28-2017, 02:55 PM   #44
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On the topic of Reign, what if they try to shoe her in as a 'superfriend..?' Being basically Kryptonian, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to pass her off as a 'superwoman' or Power Girl.
Hmmmmm..... I think those characters may be coming later, and to use their title for this character would be wasting great characters.

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Old 06-28-2017, 02:58 PM   #45
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

I certainly hope they don't go in that direction with her.

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Old 06-28-2017, 05:23 PM   #46
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

I would be extremely surprised . I can see them moving leaning towards a superwoman changes and this character .

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Old 06-28-2017, 08:23 PM   #47
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

I wouldn't want it either, it was just an errant thought. But also how do we know that she is truly evil? We come upon nature versus nurture. Is she inherently bad because of how she was created, or is it compounded by being treated badly once she reaches Earth?

That's another problem I see with starting her off as a child when Krypton died and having pretty much the same origin story as Kal and Kara. In the comics she is evil because she was raised as a Work Killer and that is what she is designed to do, destroy worlds.

In this, how does she even know what she is? Yes, they could have a crystal in the pod that could 'teach' her, but she's a baby. And she's bound to have other contact beside that, such as those who find her and raise her.

I'm wondering if they might have her as a confused individual who is bad merely because she is told to be or was raised to be, rather than as just cut and dried, no excuses evil.

I'm hoping for the evil part...

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Old 06-28-2017, 08:24 PM   #48
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Hmmmmm..... I think those characters may be coming later, and to use their title for this character would be wasting great characters.

I hope they are!! You know I already want Alex to be Superwoman!

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Old 06-28-2017, 08:26 PM   #49
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

Super Woman dies in the comics...

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Old 06-28-2017, 09:33 PM   #50
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Default Re: Odette Annable IS Reign

She currently has her own title so it could work lol.

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