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Old 08-19-2013, 09:06 PM   #401
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Default Re: Zach Snyder plans to speak with Frank Miller for MoS Sequel

Originally Posted by dnno1 View Post
So you didn't like this:

I love that scene, i just wish the suit was more... more animal, if that made sense.. so it wasn't completely obvious it was a man in armour

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Old 08-22-2013, 04:21 AM   #402
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Default Re: Zach Snyder plans to speak with Frank Miller for MoS Sequel

Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
So much of what Frank Miller has done his entire career is to do and say the most over the top things in his work to rile up the fans. End of story. I don't think Snyder is going to be taking much if anything from Miller except for this: The conflict that occurs between Superman and Batman in modern comics is all about opposing world views that are deeply held by both men. Miller's take (I don't agree with it, just giving his view here) is that Superman sees order as the natural and proper state of society/mankind/the universe. It's somewhat believable, I mean he is a guy born into great power and an arguement could be made he can't ever really understand or see lifes nature through a "mortal's" eyes and experience. Miller's Batman is a person that had his sense of order in the universe shattered as a young child. He believes order MUST be imposed on the wider world, to think otherwise is either naive or stupid.

I'm not endorsing this dynamic in a team up film with the two, but I think more or less this core idea will be what Snyder will try to incorporate into the script, not some "let's bash Superman because he's lame" theme some here seem to fear.

That's a very good analysis of the fundamental difference between BM and SM, and what underpins their separate approaches (sort of "I'm a billionaire orphan with childhood trauma...what do I do next ? " to " I'm a god-like alien who's been hiding most of my life...what do I do next?" kind of vibe).

I think you are completely right, but I'm not sure that that will underpin a conflict between them in a BM v SM film, simply because it's a conflict that really requires a series of films/comic books to play out.

Also, I'm not sure if your interpretation of Superman is consistent with the MOS version of Superman (although in the comics you are completely correct) but after MOS he's still only just found his place in the world, next he'll have to deal with the consequences of assuming that role.

(Interestingly, Miller's Batman was also all about imposing order on world in both BM year 1, and DKR "Life only makes sense when you force it to " ) perhaps their difference lies in how they go about imposing that order.
In fact, one way of looking at Superman is that his approach is about
letting humanity get on with its own affairs. One of the underlying strengths of the character is that with all that godlike might, he doesn't just take
over and impose order -when disasters, aliens or supervillians show up
he'll intervene, but otherwise he lets mankind get on with its own affairs
( a great example of the opposite is Mark Millar's brilliant Red Son)

Anyway, back to Cavill's Superman, in MOS he only just came to terms with reconciling his alien heritage and human upbringing. To reach the stage where he believes in an underlying order would certainly be a character leap ( one that would take a couple of films), while this is a fantastic idea to play out over a comic book series, I'm not sure it lends itself well to film.

For example, I quite liked, in MOS, that even after Clark discovered he was really Kal-El, we still see him drinking beer and watching football. He still sees the world through essentially human eyes.

So I think you're right in that the different approaches the characters take to
making the world a better place will feature as a point of conflict (Hope vs Fear ?) lets hope there's some subtlety as well as smashing up buildings.
Let's hope the motivations are handled at least as well as Zod's were (which made the villain much more engaging).

Anyway, my main concern in Snyder talking to Miller is getting directing advice from him. That Spirit movie Miller directed was garbage ! He'd be better off to take everything Miller says, and do the opposite.

Miller's greatest Batman works were BM Y1 and DKR, which are 80's stories (interestingly, most of today's superhero films are based on stories from the 80's i.e. The Wolverine, Days of Future Past, X2, Rise of the Silver Surfer-actually that's the 60's ).

I found "Dark Knight Strikes again" avant garde, but vastly inferior to DKR.
Not so sure about All-Star Batman either. It's almost like he lost something
over the years because Batman in those 2 earlier, epic, works is a tough and
obsessive but also a compassionate figure.

While the epic BM v SM smackdown from DKR is a legendary moment in DC comics, it's about the end of their relationship, not the beginning, which is
why I don't think it'll be as effective if adapted for the BM v SM film.
It's underlying decades of philosophical disagreement that underpins that fight
( it's two ideologies at war, not just two men). Without that context,
it just isn't as powerful. And that's the context you were talking about in your post.

so maybe Miller will give him some good advice and tell him to leave that bit
for a later film -but he doesn't seem to have the same impeccable taste he used to, and I am a devoted fan of Miller's early work.

Still, I'm pretty hopeful for BM v SM. I went into MOS with zero expectations,
actually I expected to hate it, (after Nolan's DK trilogy, I thought "After seeing Batman in an everyday world, how will Superman be even remotely relevant ?") but to my surprise I loved MOS ended up enjoying it so much that I've seen it five times.

Fingers crossed that Snyder takes Miller's advice with a grain of salt.


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