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View Poll Results: What is the best superhero film ever? (in alphabetical order)
The Avengers 8 8.60%
Avengers: Infinity War 19 20.43%
Batman (1989) 1 1.08%
Batman Begins 1 1.08%
Black Panther 0 0%
Captain America: The Winter Soldier 3 3.23%
Captain America: Civil War 1 1.08%
The Dark Knight 44 47.31%
Deadpool 0 0%
Guardians of the Galaxy 1 1.08%
Iron Man 0 0%
Logan 1 1.08%
Spider-Man 1 1.08%
Spider-Man 2 4 4.30%
Spider-Man: Homecoming 0 0%
Superman: The Movie 4 4.30%
Thor: Ragnarok 0 0%
Wonder Woman 0 0%
X2: X-Men United 0 0%
X-Men: Days of Future Past 2 2.15%
X-Men: First Class 0 0%
Other (please name in thread) 3 3.23%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-13-2018, 07:43 AM   #151
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

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Originally Posted by LvtLeeTDK View Post
Are you the same guy who bashed TDK in may previous thread or that's sarcasm ?

It wasn't sarcasm.



I still think the movie is overrated but that doesn't mean I can't give credit where it's due.

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Old 05-13-2018, 08:13 AM   #152
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Old 05-13-2018, 08:30 AM   #153
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It also doesn't help that the characters are sterile and lifeless to me so I have no interest. And when I have no interest in these fortune cookie, user manual spouting characters it's impossible for the stakes to be high because I just don't care. When Rachel blew up I felt absolutely nothing mainly because she never really did or said anything of importance. She's just there with nothing to do. That undercuts Dent's turn because I never really saw he and Rachel had any kind of relationship. I was simply "told". Same goes for Rachel and Bruce. None of these people feel human to me. I couldn't even see The Joker as a threat since it was a relief whenever he was on screen that gave me a break from the rest of the cast who didn't seem any different from the next person. I know people hold this movie in high regard and put it on a pedestal but being a person who likes character driven movies it falls flat.
I mostly agree with this. I would offer that the reason the characters feel lifeless is because the movie doesn't develop any of them beyond their roles in the plot.



I.E. we are told that Gordon is a family man but we aren't shown any scenes of him actually enjoying time with his family. We are never given a sense of who this guy is away from his job.


And really that applies to every character in the movie, which is why they all feel so lifeless and dull. It's like none of them have any attachment to the outside world.

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Old 05-13-2018, 10:51 AM   #154
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

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Saying characters don't sound like natural people usually rings as a false criticism to me. While the Nolans are not Howard Hawks, David Mamet, Quentin Tarantino, Martin McDonagh, or (thank goodness) Woody Allen, everyone enjoys how those writers' stories have a distinct voice that is removed from "naturalism." The Nolans aren't that removed either. Sure, the Batman movies have a clarity and are exposition-heavy, at least in the case of TDK and TDKR (when they minimized David Goyer's input), the dialogue works. They're no more exposition heavy than any other blockbuster, and even so, there is a real ear for a certain poetic quality that I think is Jonah Nolan's influence, because you see it on Westworld now 10 weeks out of the year. I mean there is reason people still quote the Joker, Bane, Alfred, Batman, and Two-Face from those movies. And whatever the case may be, their heroes feel very human, fallible, and increasingly damaged. Bruce Wayne goes on a journey and is not reset movie to movie for whatever the story needs. You see the tracts of the experience on him, Gordon, and Alfred.

As for Rachel, I'll agree so much as she is the weakest link in the trilogy and not a great character. But her death felt substantial, because besides being highly unusual for superhero movies to kill off "good guys" in 2008, it felt like a real terrorist action. She was cut-off mid-sentence in a fiery explosion. You could literally feel her being taken, ripped even, out of the story. And I can say it was shocking 2008 and still has a visceral effect. More so than seeing Bucky (another weak character, through no part of Sebastian Stan) float away. Also, unlike recent events like that, it felt real in TDK, because Nolan obviously wasn't going to reverse her death. It's final.

That adds to the tense quality of TDK specifically. It is not surface level. You complain about Batman's use of the wiretapping, but it was elegant and was a forerunner to the Edward Snowden affair. While Batman has the clarity of not abusing it (he's a superhero), he still falls into a cover-up conspiracy with Gordon that has major consequences: he must retire, civil liberties are trampled based on a lie about Harvey Dent, and the new world he and Gordon built rests on sand. Just as his use of torture on Maroni was ineffective in TDK, his political cover-up backfires in Rises. And the result isn't a shrug and a cracked joke about "That right there is a court martial."

Which again is why these movies work so well. They have stakes. Actions have consequences. One of them is TDK being widely considered the best CBM ever made 10 years on.
Well said

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TDK currently holds 50.77% vote LOL.
51.52%

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Old 05-14-2018, 03:21 AM   #155
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Other: Fant4stic





Nah for real though, it's The Dark Knight. Followed by Spider-Man 2 and Logan.

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Old 05-14-2018, 04:15 AM   #156
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Other: Fant4stic
Your answer....


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Old 05-14-2018, 10:03 AM   #157
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

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I mostly agree with this. I would offer that the reason the characters feel lifeless is because the movie doesn't develop any of them beyond their roles in the plot.

I.E. we are told that Gordon is a family man but we aren't shown any scenes of him actually enjoying time with his family. We are never given a sense of who this guy is away from his job.

And really that applies to every character in the movie, which is why they all feel so lifeless and dull. It's like none of them have any attachment to the outside world.
And that's exactly it when I call the characters in this trilogy fortune cookie, user manual spouting characters because really that's all they're presented as which leads me to this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe
Saying characters don't sound like natural people usually rings as a false criticism to me. While the Nolans are not Howard Hawks, David Mamet, Quentin Tarantino, Martin McDonagh, or (thank goodness) Woody Allen, everyone enjoys how those writers' stories have a distinct voice that is removed from "naturalism." The Nolans aren't that removed either. Sure, the Batman movies have a clarity and are exposition-heavy, at least in the case of TDK and TDKR (when they minimized David Goyer's input), the dialogue works. They're no more exposition heavy than any other blockbuster, and even so, there is a real ear for a certain poetic quality that I think is Jonah Nolan's influence, because you see it on Westworld now 10 weeks out of the year. I mean there is reason people still quote the Joker, Bane, Alfred, Batman, and Two-Face from those movies. And whatever the case may be, their heroes feel very human, fallible, and increasingly damaged. Bruce Wayne goes on a journey and is not reset movie to movie for whatever the story needs. You see the tracts of the experience on him, Gordon, and Alfred.

As for Rachel, I'll agree so much as she is the weakest link in the trilogy and not a great character. But her death felt substantial, because besides being highly unusual for superhero movies to kill off "good guys" in 2008, it felt like a real terrorist action. She was cut-off mid-sentence in a fiery explosion. You could literally feel her being taken, ripped even, out of the story. And I can say it was shocking 2008 and still has a visceral effect. More so than seeing Bucky (another weak character, through no part of Sebastian Stan) float away. Also, unlike recent events like that, it felt real in TDK, because Nolan obviously wasn't going to reverse her death. It's final.

That adds to the tense quality of TDK specifically. It is not surface level. You complain about Batman's use of the wiretapping, but it was elegant and was a forerunner to the Edward Snowden affair. While Batman has the clarity of not abusing it (he's a superhero), he still falls into a cover-up conspiracy with Gordon that has major consequences: he must retire, civil liberties are trampled based on a lie about Harvey Dent, and the new world he and Gordon built rests on sand. Just as his use of torture on Maroni was ineffective in TDK, his political cover-up backfires in Rises. And the result isn't a shrug and a cracked joke about "That right there is a court martial."

Which again is why these movies work so well. They have stakes. Actions have consequences. One of them is TDK being widely considered the best CBM ever made 10 years on.
I don't feel the tracts of experience on Gordon because his character really doesn't change all that much and the state of his life and character are summed up in some meaningless exposition by another faceless character in TDKR and then it's dropped. Just another example of told, not felt. Gotham as well is so faceless (except for the unredeemable criminals) it's almost impossible to care about the stakes of civil liberties being trampled and the "failed" political cover-up is never truly explored in TDKR and it ultimately goes nowhere. There are no repercussions. Civil liberties got trampled. So what? In the end Gotham seems just fine. And the guys who perpetrated the cover-up? Batman is rewarded with a statue and Gordon keeps his job, nice and neat. What failed exactly?

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Old 05-14-2018, 11:12 AM   #158
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

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And that's exactly it when I call the characters in this trilogy fortune cookie, user manual spouting characters because really that's all they're presented as which leads me to this...



I don't feel the tracts of experience on Gordon because his character really doesn't change all that much and the state of his life and character are summed up in some meaningless exposition by another faceless character in TDKR and then it's dropped. Just another example of told, not felt. Gotham as well is so faceless (except for the unredeemable criminals) it's almost impossible to care about the stakes of civil liberties being trampled and the "failed" political cover-up is never truly explored in TDKR and it ultimately goes nowhere. There are no repercussions. Civil liberties got trampled. So what? In the end Gotham seems just fine. And the guys who perpetrated the cover-up? Batman is rewarded with a statue and Gordon keeps his job, nice and neat. What failed exactly?
Gordon went from a straight and narrow family man who was always by the book, and wouldn't let himself be taken into any corruption, to partnering with a vigilante who helps him raise to new political heights, as well as moral ambiguities. Gordon is sacrificing a part of himself as much as Bruce by lying about Harvey Dent. He feels personally responsible for Harvey's fall to a degree (you see the desperation he has in the third act of TDK. "I have to save Harvey Dent."). But upon learning the truth, he must eulogize the man who put a gun to his son's head and besmirch the man who saved that boy's life.

It is something the Gordon in BB would never consider and it takes a toll on his soul, costing him his marriage, his children, and turning him into a "war hero." Which also means politically compromised.

While the film spares him and Bruce for their lies--it is a superhero movie about renewal at the end--his choices helped leave Gotham vulnerable to Bane's revolution and gives more phony power to the purveyor of populist lies. If you don't think arming a dishonest demagogue with ammunition to say the systems are corrupt, "drain the swamp," well look at what's happening today.

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Old 05-14-2018, 01:49 PM   #159
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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. It was everything I ever wanted out of a DC film, or a superhero film in general. I like it more every time I watch it; it's one of only three movies that does that for me.

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Old 05-15-2018, 06:40 AM   #160
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

Is and always will be for me, Superman (1978). For me, it defines the genre, the essence & framework for all that has followed.

It defines my own childhood, my own aesthetic as a fan, as a film fan & genre fan, and Superman is my defacto hero. It embraces all I wish the term 'hero' to represent and Donner & co carry it off with such gusto & vigour to really carry home on the 'you will believe a man can fly' promise.

For me, it is everything I hold dear to my heart in a superhero film.

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Old 05-16-2018, 01:29 PM   #161
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I'm surprised no one voted Logan.

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:24 PM   #162
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

Infinity War wins this for me.

While Civil War and The Dark Knight were about equal in my eyes, I don't think either compares to what Infinity War accomplished.

First of all, it's impossible to look at any superhero sequel or team up in a bubble. The Dark Knight sorta works on its own, but not really. A guy that dresses up as a bat and fights crime makes no sense without his origin story. And while Batman Begins does that origin very well, The Dark Knight picks up in the height of his career. In other words, "Civil War/Infinity War requires you to watch other films to enjoy it" is not a valid argument.

Moving on... Since we are talking about two basically flawless films here, I just want to say, this is all about how much I enjoyed them. Not necessarily which is "better." But the title also says "best superhero film" not "best crime drama" or "best heath ledger performance."

The Dark Knight is a film I love and have seen 20 times. So its only fair to assume that this may partially be due to it's novelty having worn off. That being said, Infinity War has got it all. It's got beautiful action, magic, and sci fi, and time travel, and super hero team ups, and so many "WOOP!" moments I just can't even list them all. And never for a second did I think, "Ugh that's so out of place." That in itself is a feat.

I never thought anything in TDK was out of place either, but its a movie about street-level humans punching each other. Nothing should feel out of place.

I was on the edge of my seat in both movies, but Infinity War is a mind-bending, cosmic and mystic spectacle that still hits you in the gut and the heart and the feels. The Joker may win on a metaphorical level, but Thanos wins on a literal level. It does everything you would expect a $300 million movie to do but then it does so many things you wouldn't expect.

Infinity War is the best superhero film of all time.

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Old 05-16-2018, 06:56 PM   #163
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The Dark Knight was the best superhero movie ever made until The Avengers came out.

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Old 05-16-2018, 07:42 PM   #164
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Im glad the opinion that superhero films can only swing for the fences if they ground the film and go out of their way to disassociate themselves from being superhero films, is practically dead. I’ve seen that mentioned in this thread a bit, but it’s been a few years since that’s actually been a commonly held theory. I’m delighted we’re mostly past that and the wide variation in tone, genre, and filmmaking goals from most of the films on this list, especially those within the past five years, put a smile on my face.

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Old 05-16-2018, 07:56 PM   #165
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Dark Knight is a 9.5/10. Second highest is a cluster of ten films at 8.5. It definitely succeeded the most it was set to accomplish, even though I strongly disagree that the film’s aim was higher than every other film on the list. More than a handful of films on this list and off it took bigger risks and had a bigger reach.

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Old 05-16-2018, 11:51 PM   #166
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

I just want to point out that currently the poll stands as follows:

38 votes for TDK
38 votes for not TDK

which means (I think) TDK can't really be hailed as "the objective best" anymore.

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Old 05-17-2018, 03:02 AM   #167
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

There's no such thing as objective best in film anyway. TDK is just the most popular here if it wins the vote, nothing else. The same of course goes for every poll, regardless of which films are in them.

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Old 05-17-2018, 06:12 AM   #168
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^ Yup. Some of you guys jump through such hoops to try and undermine how well TDK does in these polls. And at the end of the day, that's all they are--polls on a niche message board.

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Old 05-19-2018, 07:14 PM   #169
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Is and always will be for me, Superman (1978). For me, it defines the genre, the essence & framework for all that has followed.

It defines my own childhood, my own aesthetic as a fan, as a film fan & genre fan, and Superman is my defacto hero. It embraces all I wish the term 'hero' to represent and Donner & co carry it off with such gusto & vigour to really carry home on the 'you will believe a man can fly' promise.

For me, it is everything I hold dear to my heart in a superhero film.

I know what you mean.


This could be my Superman bias speaking as well, but I just think his movie tells the most powerful story. Still can't think of a scene in any other CBM as emotional as the one where Clark decides to leave the farm and says goodbye to his mother.


It's easy to give S:TM the nod because the story is just so damn epic and the performances are all so perfect, especially Reeve.

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Old 05-26-2018, 11:19 AM   #170
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Objectively the best is TDK.
If we're talking the CBM I enjoyed the most then it's Infinity War.
Honorable mentions for Spider-Man 2, Winter Solider and Civil War.

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Old 06-23-2018, 08:11 PM   #171
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

imo, Dark Knight still reigns supreme - for the following reasons.

Plot
Villains
Chase Action
Pace
Character-Development


- PLOT: no CM film will ever come close to the extraordinary twists, turns and surprises within the plots of DK.
when u saw it the first time, it constantly spun your head in guessing whatever was going to happen next.. that was incredibly unique and fun beyond imagine. By far the strongest element of the entire film ..

-VILLAIN: no CM film villain that stood out as brilliantly impressive as Heath Ledger's the Joker. (en route to Oscar winning performance) and to add more to it, this film featured 3 villains (scarecrow, two-face)

ACTION-
- the car chase scenes and devices/vehicles and jets DK operated were simply astounding.

PACE: the film flows, and is fast paced for such a time lengthy film. it doesn't slow or dragged with unneccesarily dialogue or dead spots at all. Something interesting and significant was always happening and rolling.


No other comic film has quite unique combinations as DK. But DK is not totally perfect. it's only flaws:
- the hand fighting choreography is as average and bland. Disappointing considering Batman trained with ninjas. So why not have impressive ninja action?

- the irritating harsh voice DK used to disguise it. Why not have a device with a normal voicing ?

- and the very bland looking love interest Rachel ( sorry Maggie Gyllenhaal ) thought there should have been a more dead gorgeous female - i didnt feel any sorrow when she was blown dead.

best of the rest:

2) Capt. America WS
3) Avengers Infinity War
4) Xmen 1st Class
5) Xmen United

Winter Soldier- tremendous blend of action, plot, villains (Bucky/Pierce)
pace and characters ( falcon, pierce , bucky, widow, brock, batroc)

Infinity War- combined superheroes , stand out villain, action, CGI, plot, pace and better camera work than CW. but it's not yet a complete film. it still has a part 2)

- x-united-: great mutant story conspiracy, action, CGI, love interest, sorrow ending, top villain, characters (intro nighcrawler, colossus)

- Xmen 1st class - origin/mission/inspiration moments of magneto, brotherhood of evil mutants, original Xmen, action, music score, action, CGI, character development.


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Old 06-24-2018, 05:33 PM   #172
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The dark knight. It's possible we'll never see a better superhero film in our lives.

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Old 06-24-2018, 05:47 PM   #173
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

I'll go against the grain and say Spider-Man 2.

Best character development. Great action. One of the best scores in the genre. The pacing is slow and thoughtful and allows the story to breathe. The film really shows all the implications of being a superhero, from difficulties with employment to the personal cost of interference with relationships.

Also, Aunt May's speech. "I believe there's a hero in all of us, that keeps us honest, gives us strength, makes us noble, and finally allows us to die with pride, even though sometimes we have to be steady, and give up the thing we want the most. Even our dreams."

The Dark Knight has the best villain, probably the most memorable dialog, a memorable score, and easily the best climax that provokes tension as well as thought. In terms of sheer popularity, it's probably the most acclaimed film of the 21st century.

But the ending just kind of makes me want to drink a beer and go to sleep, whereas the ending to SM2 makes me want to stand up and cheer. "Go get em, tiger!"

This probably makes me seem shallow, though :P.


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Old 07-13-2018, 05:49 AM   #174
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Default Re: Best Superhero Film of All-Time (with new Poll)

So, are we settled ?
1. The Dark Knight
2. Infinity War
3. The Avengers, SpiderMan 2, Superman

This seems to match the general consensus.
I know a prefential ballot vote would've been much more accurated, but still...

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Old 07-13-2018, 06:24 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
Saying characters don't sound like natural people usually rings as a false criticism to me. While the Nolans are not Howard Hawks, David Mamet, Quentin Tarantino, Martin McDonagh, or (thank goodness) Woody Allen, everyone enjoys how those writers' stories have a distinct voice that is removed from "naturalism." The Nolans aren't that removed either. Sure, the Batman movies have a clarity and are exposition-heavy, at least in the case of TDK and TDKR (when they minimized David Goyer's input), the dialogue works. They're no more exposition heavy than any other blockbuster, and even so, there is a real ear for a certain poetic quality that I think is Jonah Nolan's influence, because you see it on Westworld now 10 weeks out of the year. I mean there is reason people still quote the Joker, Bane, Alfred, Batman, and Two-Face from those movies. And whatever the case may be, their heroes feel very human, fallible, and increasingly damaged. Bruce Wayne goes on a journey and is not reset movie to movie for whatever the story needs. You see the tracts of the experience on him, Gordon, and Alfred.

As for Rachel, I'll agree so much as she is the weakest link in the trilogy and not a great character. But her death felt substantial, because besides being highly unusual for superhero movies to kill off "good guys" in 2008, it felt like a real terrorist action. She was cut-off mid-sentence in a fiery explosion. You could literally feel her being taken, ripped even, out of the story. And I can say it was shocking 2008 and still has a visceral effect. More so than seeing Bucky (another weak character, through no part of Sebastian Stan) float away. Also, unlike recent events like that, it felt real in TDK, because Nolan obviously wasn't going to reverse her death. It's final.

That adds to the tense quality of TDK specifically. It is not surface level. You complain about Batman's use of the wiretapping, but it was elegant and was a forerunner to the Edward Snowden affair. While Batman has the clarity of not abusing it (he's a superhero), he still falls into a cover-up conspiracy with Gordon that has major consequences: he must retire, civil liberties are trampled based on a lie about Harvey Dent, and the new world he and Gordon built rests on sand. Just as his use of torture on Maroni was ineffective in TDK, his political cover-up backfires in Rises. And the result isn't a shrug and a cracked joke about "That right there is a court martial."

Which again is why these movies work so well. They have stakes. Actions have consequences. One of them is TDK being widely considered the best CBM ever made 10 years on.
couldnt have Said it better myself! Those are just some of the many reasons i believe TDK trilogy is the best comic book trilogy of all time and also better than anything the MCU has put out. Call me a fanboy but its what i think, and im an MCU fan!

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