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Old 03-08-2017, 10:01 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by idiot09 View Post
Just saw this on twitter from Andrew Dyce :



"Wonder Woman views the Sword of Alexander: the weapon of a great man descending into madness. How many noticed Bruce's (literal) reflection?"

Zack's movies are so filled with layers man, I love it. Its been a year and we are still finding stuff. This is brilliant.
Let's answer the question.. nobody noticed the reflection. It was pointless and didn't add (or subtract for that matter) to anyone's enjoyment of the movie.

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Old 03-08-2017, 10:07 AM   #77
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Let's answer the question.. nobody noticed the reflection. It was pointless and didn't add (or subtract for that matter) to anyone's enjoyment of the movie.
Yeah its mostly a easter egg which is pretty cool.

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Old 03-08-2017, 10:40 AM   #78
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Zack sets things up like that but doesn't pay it off in a way that makes sense or that feels well executed. That's his problem. He has ideas. He has a vision, sometimes, but he doesn't know how to follow through with those ideas. His obsession with cool imagery and battle sequences overshadows whatever he was trying to do in the first place. He's like an addict. No matter what , he needs to keep having a taste of nonsensical CGI explosions/fights that has nothing to do with good storytelling or character development. Only sometimes will he plant a seed like the above photo, only to stumble over his own two feet halfway through his own movie.

It ends up being a shot that is foreshadowing something silly instead of something you can get emotionally invested in. There's no way you can feel anything for Batman because it's the first time seeing this version of the character and he's a jerk the whole film. I really question anyone who felt anything for this guy by the end of the film. I chalk it up to their previous knowledge of the character in all mediums. Their attachment to that. Rather than their attachment to THIS guy. That's how I see it anyway.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:07 AM   #79
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It really f**ks me off that Snyder isn't credited for his understanding of story depth and layers of providing the story to the audience, he's always 'brushed off' as a 'visual' director (aren't they all, given they pictorially provide a visual story), it's as if, people regard him as with a lack of understanding of characterisation, subtlety of emotion or that he's a 'biff, bang, whallop' merchant, let's leave that to Bay shall we ?

Not every director has every composite, required skill, to be the 'full package' and he would admit himself he's not, but his ability to at once provide the audience with the aesthetic to a scene as well as the depth of what the scene is telling us/not telling us (and leaving to us to work out) is there.

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Old 03-08-2017, 01:01 PM   #80
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It really f**ks me off that Snyder isn't credited for his understanding of story depth and layers of providing the story to the audience, he's always 'brushed off' as a 'visual' director (aren't they all, given they pictorially provide a visual story), it's as if, people regard him as with a lack of understanding of characterisation, subtlety of emotion or that he's a 'biff, bang, whallop' merchant, let's leave that to Bay shall we ?.
That's because he DOES have a lack of understanding and has no subtlety. Him and Bay come from the same school of thought. He shouldn't be credited for story depth. A purely visual director who doesn't quite know how to execute a well rounded story and get under the skin of the characters and still develop them properly, get them out of a one dimensional cardboard cutout of themselves.....should not be touching characters like Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman.

Leave that to the big boys.

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Old 03-08-2017, 01:08 PM   #81
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That's because he DOES have a lack of understanding and has no subtlety. Him and Bay come from the same school of thought. He shouldn't be credited for story depth. A purely visual director who doesn't quite know how to execute a well rounded story and get under the skin of the characters and still develop them properly, get them out of a one dimensional cardboard cutout of themselves.....should not be touching characters like Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman.

Leave that to the big boys.
In your view, which obviously, you're entitled too, I'd disagree wholeheartedly but then, c'est la vie.

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Old 03-08-2017, 02:08 PM   #82
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There's something amusing about Nolan fans criticising Snyder's 'lack of subtlety' when The Dark Knight has all the depth of a puddle.

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Old 03-08-2017, 02:16 PM   #83
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Well, you see, some people can forgive a film it's flaws if it's otherwise excellent.

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Old 03-08-2017, 02:23 PM   #84
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Well, you see, some people can forgive a film it's flaws if it's otherwise excellent.
Aside from a couple of great performances, there's not much to like about The Dark Knight.

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Old 03-08-2017, 02:23 PM   #85
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There's something amusing about Nolan fans criticising Snyder's 'lack of subtlety' when The Dark Knight has all the depth of a puddle.
You must have some very deep puddles where you live.

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Old 03-08-2017, 02:33 PM   #86
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It really f**ks me off that Snyder isn't credited for his understanding of story depth and layers of providing the story to the audience, he's always 'brushed off' as a 'visual' director (aren't they all, given they pictorially provide a visual story), it's as if, people regard him as with a lack of understanding of characterisation, subtlety of emotion or that he's a 'biff, bang, whallop' merchant, let's leave that to Bay shall we ?

Not every director has every composite, required skill, to be the 'full package' and he would admit himself he's not, but his ability to at once provide the audience with the aesthetic to a scene as well as the depth of what the scene is telling us/not telling us (and leaving to us to work out) is there.
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100% agreed

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Old 03-08-2017, 03:01 PM   #87
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Aside from a couple of great performances, there's not much to like about The Dark Knight.
True. When you have great cinematography, a well paced story, character development, a healthy balance of humor and emotional scenes, doing away with genre tropes, being true to core values of a character, well directed action, a fantastic score. Not much to like there. I have to agree. All of that was well done but I also only like the two good performances in the movie.

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Old 03-08-2017, 03:11 PM   #88
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Like you and I have our own opinions that person is allowed there's too.

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Old 03-08-2017, 03:25 PM   #89
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doing away with genre tropes
A key plot development in this film relies on the fridging death of a female character. That's one of the oldest and worst cliches of the genre.

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Old 03-08-2017, 03:26 PM   #90
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Like you and I have our own opinions that person is allowed there's too.
He never said that person was not allowed their opinion.

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Old 03-08-2017, 03:36 PM   #91
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A key plot development in this film relies on the fridging death of a female character. That's one of the oldest and worst cliches of the genre.
The trope I was talking about was the hero being given the choice of saving the woman he loves and another (which could represent an important figure to the city, a bus full of kids, etc etc)..and usually the hero ends up rescuing both in time. It's in many superhero movies. They broke that trope by having the hero LOSE. He doesn't save the woman he loves and that other character is ruined forever in an accident.

But of course you have to make it about women being killed in many movies or something ridiculous lol.

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Old 03-08-2017, 04:50 PM   #92
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But of course you have to make it about women being killed in many movies or something ridiculous lol.
I was talking about killing off a female love interest in order to provide motivation for a male character. In this case, that male character was Harvey Dent.

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Old 03-08-2017, 06:10 PM   #93
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True. When you have great cinematography, a well paced story, character development, a healthy balance of humor and emotional scenes, doing away with genre tropes, being true to core values of a character, well directed action, a fantastic score. Not much to like there. I have to agree. All of that was well done but I also only like the two good performances in the movie.
Are we talking about the same film? Flat cinematography, horrid pacing with a third act that drags and drags, constant pseudo-philosophical speeches which bog down the film, Christian Bale's Batman is unintentionally hilarious, and the ferry scene is nonsensical.

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Old 03-08-2017, 07:08 PM   #94
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Flat cinematography and horrid pacing? Hahaha that's the first time I've heard that with TDK. I would love to hear what you think of BvS then.

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Old 03-09-2017, 03:02 AM   #95
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Zack sets things up like that but doesn't pay it off in a way that makes sense or that feels well executed. That's his problem. He has ideas. He has a vision, sometimes, but he doesn't know how to follow through with those ideas. His obsession with cool imagery and battle sequences overshadows whatever he was trying to do in the first place. He's like an addict. No matter what , he needs to keep having a taste of nonsensical CGI explosions/fights that has nothing to do with good storytelling or character development. Only sometimes will he plant a seed like the above photo, only to stumble over his own two feet halfway through his own movie.

It ends up being a shot that is foreshadowing something silly instead of something you can get emotionally invested in. There's no way you can feel anything for Batman because it's the first time seeing this version of the character and he's a jerk the whole film. I really question anyone who felt anything for this guy by the end of the film. I chalk it up to their previous knowledge of the character in all mediums. Their attachment to that. Rather than their attachment to THIS guy. That's how I see it anyway.
Eh what? What does that mean? Is it not possible to believe that an audience member feels sorrow to see Batman sink that deep hopelessly only to rise back up in the end when he realizes his mistakes?

I question anyone who questions another's capacity to feel.

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Old 03-09-2017, 05:25 AM   #96
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I question anyone who questions someone's questions about another's capacity to feel.

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Old 03-09-2017, 08:15 AM   #97
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Eh what? What does that mean? Is it not possible to believe that an audience member feels sorrow to see Batman sink that deep hopelessly only to rise back up in the end when he realizes his mistakes?

I question anyone who questions another's capacity to feel.
Batman in general? Sure. THIS batman? Yeah I question it.

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Old 03-09-2017, 08:34 AM   #98
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Batman in general? Sure. THIS batman? Yeah I question it.
If people think that This Batman was behaving like he was shown in the movie (BvS) since his origins, then maybe you are right, that audiences will not be sympathetic towards him, but from Alfred's dialogue ("That's how it starts. The fever... the rage... the feeling of powerlessness that turns good men cruel.") and the from what random citizen of Gotham has to say about him ("He's angry and he's hunting.") we get the sense that He has been behaving like that (branding criminals etc.) only after the events of Black Zero (since Zod's invasion two years ago).

So, Batman being reckless and murderous was a recent change, he was not like that before, this earns him our sympathy.

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Old 03-09-2017, 08:54 AM   #99
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I don't think it does. Just because they tell you that he wasn't as cruel in the past..

I mean, besides the opening scene where he saves a little girl (which to me was put in the movie as a cheap way to get AT LEAST some people on his side) when does he come across compassionate? He's one note all movie. Don't tell me about his past , show me or I can't get invested. I dont want to think of batman in different mediums. I want to see THIS BATMAN do great things and then you can take him down a bad path, that way I feel something for when he redeems himself. This was just villainous murder grumpy dude who realizes he should stop being a S.O.B at the end. It's like okay? You WERE being a total jerk Bruce, that's your fault. People warned you and you still killed people for no reason. So that's on you. Zero sympathy from me.

I feel like people put too much of their past experiences with batman into this one instead of looking at this version for what it is and what they're showing you. If Bales Batman went through this downfall, I would have felt something because I saw him in 3 movies acting heroic. It would mean something. Just like if Superman wasn't saving people from the beginning, once he starts saving people at the end, it would be an arc. Instead, these characters don't really have full arcs.

And to top it all off, he's just as one note and as much of an a-hole in Suicide Squad. So I can't be bothered feeling anything yet. I'll wait until Reeves gets a hold of him, and works out a proper arc for this guy.

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Old 03-10-2017, 04:28 PM   #100
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Can't wait.

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