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Old 03-18-2016, 08:40 PM   #26
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

For me, the last 1/4 of the season kind of dropped the ball, especially with Elektra (count me in as NOT a fan of the big reveal with her, nor killing her off already). Not to mention it kind of seems to contradict some stuff that was stated in S1.

It's still good, but not as good as S1 imo.

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Old 03-18-2016, 08:45 PM   #27
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

Just a theory, but I'm thinking she was killed off in order to do a sorta kinda "Shadowland" for Defenders with her in the possessed villain role instead of Matt. That ending couldn't have made it more obvious Elektra was coming back if that container said T.A.H.I.T.I.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

I haven't had a chance to see it past episode 1 for season 2 but can anyone tell me if Matt and Karen end up becoming a item by the end of the season?

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

If you really want to know...

They date briefly, but it all falls apart before the show even gets to the climax.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:23 PM   #30
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

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Just a theory, but I'm thinking she was killed off in order to do a sorta kinda "Shadowland" for Defenders with her in the possessed villain role instead of Matt. That ending couldn't have made it more obvious Elektra was coming back if that container said T.A.H.I.T.I.
Eh not a fan of that idea really. The Shadowland thing, as poorly as it was handled in the comics, was much more interesting because it was Matt. Because he's normally a moral and honorable man who tries to avoid killing as much as possible.

Also this takes the sting off of Bullseye's eventual appearance because either he won't be killing her, or they'll just be killing her AGAIN, which doesn't have nearly the same effect.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:26 PM   #31
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

Just finished the show. It was definitely solid as S1.

I think the main flaw--as mentioned by Vile One-- is that maybe S2 lacked that central villain prowess that we saw in S1. To me S2 felt it only had 'supporting' villains. I mean this season had a variety of plot conflicts. To me I saw Punisher, Reyes, The Blacksmith, The Hand, Kingpin, as the season's bad guys but no central villain really. I may have to go back and re-watch but it seems The Hand's involvement this season didn't affect much the other storylines. I kind of expected that The Hand angle will call all the shots in every conflict. I thought that maybe The Blacksmith was working for the Hand or some such.

Which leads me to the other flaw I think. The overarching storylines felt disconnected in S2. One storyline doesn't really affect the other. The Hand storyline was independent from the Punisher storyline. I mean it seems to me it was Karen/Foggy/Punisher/Matt Murdock and Elektra/Stick/Hand/Daredevil. Those two storylines really felt disconnected. In the end, I actually thought that Blacksmith maybe actually working for the Hand.

I'll watch again to see if I'm wrong but that's my initial reaction. Still a solid season.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:27 PM   #32
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

The big death in each season has been a tremendous departure from the comics. Bullseye's probably killing somebody entirely different in a future season.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:36 PM   #33
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

If Bullseye kills someone it has to be...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Karen. Has to be her. He has to really wound and hurt Daredevil's heart. He HAS TO.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:40 PM   #34
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

Or
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Foggy, so that we don't fridge BOTH of the most prominent female characters on this show.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:43 PM   #35
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

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C'mon Loki882. That Elektra death is about as final as assuming Kylo Ren died at the end of Force Awakens!

Sorry, but I don't get this idea that we can't kill off prominent female cast members. This was an important part of Daredevil's history and it was a big moment and turning point for him.

I think we need Matt and Foggy to rediscover and rebuild their friendship and partnership at some point.

We got lots of Karen Page intensity these last two seasons. But guess what? She's still a fictional character. She can still die. I don't subscribe to this notion that she can't die because Elektra also suffered a fakeout death."

I mean look now she's got a new job at the Bulletin. Chances are she's not becoming a porn star and/or drug addict.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:47 PM   #36
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
If Bullseye kills someone it has to be...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Karen. Has to be her. He has to really wound and hurt Daredevil's heart. He HAS TO.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
That's my guess as well, though technically Claire fits in this MCU version. Claire would also be a shock since she's the "glue" for the Netflix shows. Every comic fan has figured Karen is on a clock since the season 1 premiere, though.


Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Bullseye best not be going after the bromance, though. No killing Foggy before we get a cancer storyline in, like, season 6 or 7.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

After this season, I'm really curious where they go from here. Do we dive right into Defenders or go to season 3 first?

The reason I'm curious is because I wonder if they will try to continue and/or resolve some of the Daredevil threads in Defenders. Or should Defenders be fairly self-contained and not really change anything big for later seasons?

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:50 PM   #38
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

Yeah I don't consider Elektra "fridged" because she's obviously coming back. I mean, they've already established that people can do that on this show, and that's totally what she's known for in the comics. It's happening.

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Old 03-18-2016, 09:57 PM   #39
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

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After this season, I'm really curious where they go from here. Do we dive right into Defenders or go to season 3 first?

The reason I'm curious is because I wonder if they will try to continue and/or resolve some of the Daredevil threads in Defenders. Or should Defenders be fairly self-contained and not really change anything big for later seasons?
I'm thinking Defenders before season 3. I'm currently leaning toward that Elektra tease being for The Defenders, with her in a villain role.

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I just realized this entire film is a metaphor for a bad sexual experience. Ben Grimm gets drunk and makes a bad decision only to wind up with a severe skin condition and the loss of his penis.
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Old 03-18-2016, 10:00 PM   #40
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

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I'm thinking Defenders before season 3. I'm currently leaning toward that Elektra tease being for The Defenders, with her in a villain role.
I think you might be right Eddie. I have a feeling this is the stage that will be set for Defenders.

Unless anyone can think of a bigger threat that they could do for Defenders on a TV budget that would work for this group of characters.

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Old 03-18-2016, 10:17 PM   #41
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

To me, I feel like if we're getting Shadowland for Defenders, we need Matt at his lowest point and that means the finale of Season 3 to adapt Born Again except with Bullseye in addition to Nuke and for Bullseye to kill off Karen Page like he did in Guardian Devil.

As for what I want out of Season 3, I want it to start with Eric Slaughter taking control of the New York mob and Vanessa hires Bullseye to break Wilson Fisk out of prison. The main plot will be a mix of the Bullseye stuff from Miller's run with Fisk's arc from both the Miller Bendis runs. The catch is that Vanessa is blown up by Eric Slaughter's goons early on which kickstarts a gang war and Bullseye is the guy tasked with doing the dirtiest of Fisk's deeds.

The theme for Season 3 needs to call back to Season 1 where the priest mentioned how he believed that the devil is real and just as Season 2 brought Punisher in as a foil, Season 3 should be about the temptation for Matt to become just like Frank. Bullseye should be depicted as pure evil with a serious lack of social graces. He should be notably the only character to drop F-bombs and should also be shown killing people, including children, "pro bono" for no reason other than he feels like it. He should not only be an expect martial artist and marksman but sometimes enjoys torturing people to death and claims that he even murdered his own parents as a teenager just because he could. He cannot be rehabilitated. He's escaped from prison before and can do so again. He's not so much a man as a force of nature and manages to bring out the worst in Fisk after Eric Slaughter blows up his penthouse with Vanessa in it and really makes Fisk into somebody who Vanessa never would have wanted. If the only way to stop a man like that is to kill him, should you?

Eventually Bullseye is tasked with killing Eric Slaughter and Daredevil tracks Bullseye down into the subway and saves him from being hit by a train. Bulleye returns the favor in the penultimate episode when Karen Page gives up Matt's secret to Fisk but instead of letting her go, Bullseye kills her, Matt tracks him down and then Bullseye is dropped from a building.

The final episode needs to be a straight adaptation of Daredevil 191 where it's just Matt and Bullseye in the hospital and the latter is in a full body cast and can't move as they play Russian roulette. The gun is actually empty but Matt carves a crosshair symbol into Bullseye's forehead with a scalpel before leaving.

Adapt Born Again with Defenders since Nuke and IGH can get Luke and Jessica involved with the plot and Fisk's connection to The Hand and Crane Mother gets Daniel interested. Matt gets his entire life turned inside out as he loses his law practice as well as his apartment, Luke and Jessica get married and Daniel is more the observer who winds up bringing everyone together to take on Nuke as he's destroying New York City (including Misty Knight and Colleen Wing). The end of the last episode has Luke and Jessica filling in for Captain America, Matt confronting Fisk face to face and Daniel buying out Alias Investigations and renaming it as Heroes For Hire.

And yes, I would to Born Again with Defenders and save Shadowland for Defenders Season 2 after Daredevil Seasons 4 and 5 with 4 having Typhoid break Daredevil's heart and 5 having Mister Fear break his mind.

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Old 03-18-2016, 10:34 PM   #42
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

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I'm thinking Defenders before season 3. I'm currently leaning toward that Elektra tease being for The Defenders, with her in a villain role.
But they must have had a general idea of the plot for The Defenders before DD season 2 was even a thing, so I don't see how that could work. If Elektra was going to be the main threat for that series, she surely would have been introduced in season 1. Season 2 before the Defenders series was an unexpected bonus.


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Old 03-18-2016, 11:09 PM   #43
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C'mon Loki882. That Elektra death is about as final as assuming Kylo Ren died at the end of Force Awakens!

Sorry, but I don't get this idea that we can't kill off prominent female cast members. This was an important part of Daredevil's history and it was a big moment and turning point for him.

I think we need Matt and Foggy to rediscover and rebuild their friendship and partnership at some point.

We got lots of Karen Page intensity these last two seasons. But guess what? She's still a fictional character. She can still die. I don't subscribe to this notion that she can't die because Elektra also suffered a fakeout death."

I mean look now she's got a new job at the Bulletin. Chances are she's not becoming a porn star and/or drug addict.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I never said that female characters couldn't die, of course they can. But the show is already predominantly male to begin with, and the we do seem to keep offing what few prominent women that we do have (or reducing their roles at least). Also DD's LI's getting killed or driven mad in the comics got so ridiculous after awhile that they lost almost all emotional impact for me.

Also I just don't see anymore in-story justification for potentially offing Karen anymore than I do for potentially offing Foggy. Why, because it happened in the comics, I don't care. This isn't the comics, they're not obligated to do things the same way (Elektra wasn't Black Sky in the comics either, but here we are). Same goes for her being a porn star or a drug addict. She could stick around as the third member of the group permanently, and I'd be perfectly fine with that.

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Old 03-18-2016, 11:32 PM   #44
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

Just started episode 11,

I'm growing tired of Matt's unwavering no kill rule. Ideologies without any regard to context and situation are reckless and childish. They are dealing with mystical ninjas that are trying to raise a demon. These aren't humans that should be left alive. They don't deserve a chance. Hope doesn't factor into this equation. Letting people like this remain alive is reckless in the extreme, and childishly naive and foolish.

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Old 03-18-2016, 11:37 PM   #45
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

I loved this season. It was nearly perfect but I agree the two storylines get disconnected.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I honestly thought they were going to reveal that the Punisher was resurrected by the Hand. I mean he died and cut off one of the Irish guy's hand. I thought that's how they were going to connect the two. I'm glad they didn't though.

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Old 03-18-2016, 11:39 PM   #46
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

I forget:

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Did they ever say why Punisher cut off the guy's hand? Was he not dead yet and he tortured him? Or was it for another reason?

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Old 03-18-2016, 11:43 PM   #47
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

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I forget:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Did they ever say why Punisher cut off the guy's hand? Was he not dead yet and he tortured him? Or was it for another reason?
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I took it as the hand was handcuffed to the suitcase of money

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Old 03-18-2016, 11:49 PM   #48
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

Yeah I think he was just getting the briefcase.

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Old 03-18-2016, 11:54 PM   #49
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

So the french guy that Elektra fights in the airport hangar was named Jacques Duchamp. Moon Knight's pilot/sidekick is named Jean-Paul Duchamp. Easter egg or coincidence?

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Old 03-19-2016, 12:07 AM   #50
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Default Re: Daredevil: FULL SEASON TWO Discussion Thread (BEWARE, SPOILERS GALORE!)

Just got through the first four episodes and there're far better than some super hero movies. Everything about this series is amazing. Enjoyed the team-up between Frank and Matt. Great stuff

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