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Old 03-26-2016, 01:04 PM   #51
theblacksky
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

I finished the series yesterday and I loved it, but:

- I'm not sure how I feel about Karen sympathising with Frank (before she kind of turned on him in the season finale). He's a brilliant villain and he does have a human aspect but I don't think you can justify killing that many people as ruthlessly as he did.
-
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Elektra dying, and right after that beautiful scene with her and Matt. I know it's very likely they're going to resurrect her but I have a bad feeling that she'll be evil when they do.

- The fact that they never fully explained what the Black Sky is/does - it could be a very good plot but I think they introduced it way too late.
- Matt and Karen's romance scenes - I really don't like them together and I'm praying so hard that now that
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Elektra's dead
the writers don't put them back together.

Overall I thought that Season 2 was brilliant, and I'm aching for Season 3 to be announced (partly so that we get some answers about things like Madame Gao, Elektra, what happened to Frank abroad etc.)

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Old 03-26-2016, 02:29 PM   #52
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

Karen Page.
Was hoping for a longer DD, Electra, Punisher teamup at the end.

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Old 03-26-2016, 04:58 PM   #53
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

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I thought the same thing last season, why the **** would they make the red suit if they're gonna use it for a few minutes? But then again, this season happened afterwards. It's a future investment I guess, because this is not the last we're gonna see from those characters.
I think I recall DeKnight saying that it took them ages to actually get the suit made, which is why it took quite so long for him to get it. It was likely always the plan for him to get it late in the season, though.

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Old 03-26-2016, 05:39 PM   #54
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

Elektra's outfit from what I've seen so far. Haven't gotten far yet.

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Old 03-27-2016, 09:09 AM   #55
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

Here's a plothole I would like answered, my friend asked me this and I realized how stupid Matt/Stick we're.

So they know Hand can resurrect people, they know Elektra is the Black Sky.... Why on earth did they bury her somewhere public, where they can easily find her?

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Old 03-27-2016, 09:53 AM   #56
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

Would Matt be against a resurrection of Elektra, though? I'm not so sure.

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Old 03-27-2016, 11:20 AM   #57
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

Punisher's cameo in the last episode.

There are 30 ninja plus Nobu and it's obvious Elektra and Daredevil are in for a tough fight and yet Frank is not helping/isn't there. They beat up all but 4 of the ninja, Nobu kills Elektra and Frank is still not helping/isn't there.

Finally, when DD obviously has no issues beating up the remaining ninja to get to Nobu, Frank kills them and nods to DD as if he was somehow being helpful. It reminded me of Olly killing Ygritte and nodding to Jon Snow.

They could have done that in 10 different ways and all of them would have been better. Teaming up, not teaming up but Frank killing 20 ninja on the roof, evening the odds or he could have blown Nobu's head instead of Stick coming out of nowhere.

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Old 03-27-2016, 11:32 AM   #58
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

I see it as Frank actually did help. Yes, Matt would have been able to take down the remaining ninjas, but Nobu could have gotten away in that time, and I'm not sure he would leave Elektra behind to go chase after him.

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Old 03-27-2016, 10:39 PM   #59
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

I'm not actually done with the series yet, but as I'm watching episode 6 it has two of my problems with the series.

1. Every single one of the woman is immediately and by default attracted to Matt. It's such a "male fantasy" aspect of the show that I just can't. Does Matt have absolutely no woman in his life that aren't sexually attracted to him? I'm not saying he isn't hot, but is he hot enough to make up for being emotionally distant and secretive and honestly a terrible boyfriend? I think not.

2. Look I am one of the only people that really like Foggy and I get that, but maybe it would help if the writers gave him something he was good at. Now from what we have seen of Foggy in the show I really feel like one of his best roles would have been as the people person. Matt cares about people in this big general "must ave Hell's Kitchen" way, so it would make sense if Foggy - who is more down to Earth and personable - was the one who connected to people individually. If he were the guy who could actually talk with the folks who come down to their office and had connections because people like him. But that role has gone to Karen. Despite the fact that she also fills the reporter/researcher niche in their team.

Okay so make Foggy a good lawyer. Like maybe he's not so confident in real life but he steps it up when it comes to law? No, that's Matt's role. Despite the fact that he is hardy even there for the lawyer parts somehow the show has STILL made him out to be the ultimate lawyer by solving most of the law problems when making his biweekly cameo down at the Nelson & Murdock firm.

Matt is a horrible Gary Stu, is what I'm saying. If people insist on this being the greatest comic adaption of all time than part of that is that it is such a cliche male power fantasy it's not even amusing. God looking guy who is super smart and successful at business (but still poor because he's such a nice guy and it makes him an underdog! But not poor enough that he can't afford an awesome NYC loft...) and is always right and so deserves to take the law into his own hands and by the way he's not even super powered he's just REALLY good at martial arts! And all these attractive woman are immediately attracted to him! He's like Batman only we get to see him be good at regular people stuff, too, and he's blind (by not in a way that actually ever hinders him) so it feels like we're rooting for the underdog! I could stand for it to be played down some.

So far both Punisher and Elektra are both more interesting characters. Like the Punisher is a crazed psychopath but at least the show acknowledges that. The show doesn't want you to think Matt is all but totally perfect, it just wants you to agree with him all the time and think he's the best lawyer and see how good he is.

[Side note: Frank is totally against pleading PTSD and makes it sound like something that is insulting to soldiers, the idea that he could have PTSD. People are diagnosed with PTSD all the time that have never been on the battlefield. I'm no expert but I imagine being a solider in the war and then having you family killed in front of you could indeed trigger PTSD.]

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Old 03-27-2016, 10:44 PM   #60
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

Was hoping that weird idea about PTSD was just Frank but then Karen is all, "he's not having war flashbacks, it's a lie!" Well he's having memory issues and even seems to be having flashbacks to the day his family was killed. I'm not saying that it has to be PTSD, but just because he's not having every single classic symptom doesn't mean we should dismiss it outright. More importantly, though, the show seems to have a really misguided idea of what PTSD entails.

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Old 03-27-2016, 10:48 PM   #61
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

Then in 2.07: Quick! Let's hide by running along the top of this train where our silhouettes will be clearly visible in this otherwise perfect for hiding train yard!

[I'm sorry - I will not post in this thread while watching the series]

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Old 03-29-2016, 04:15 PM   #62
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

I lied. Something else came up that I remember bothered me about the first season, too.

"I did the one thing I promised I'd never do. I fell in love with you." That is actual dialogue. It's not pulled from a parody. It's not meant to be funny. The only excuse I can think of is that Electra didn't love Matt and had no idea what to say and so just picked the most cliche line she could think up. But you know what? It's still a painful piece of writing, excuse or no.

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Old 03-29-2016, 06:01 PM   #63
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

I can't stand Karen Page, she doesn't need to monopolize every episode. Please take a bullet to the head

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Old 03-29-2016, 06:03 PM   #64
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

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Okay so make Foggy a good lawyer. Like maybe he's not so confident in real life but he steps it up when it comes to law? No, that's Matt's role. Despite the fact that he is hardy even there for the lawyer parts somehow the show has STILL made him out to be the ultimate lawyer by solving most of the law problems when making his biweekly cameo down at the Nelson & Murdock firm.

Matt is a horrible Gary Stu, is what I'm saying. If people insist on this being the greatest comic adaption of all time than part of that is that it is such a cliche male power fantasy it's not even amusing. God looking guy who is super smart and successful at business (but still poor because he's such a nice guy and it makes him an underdog! But not poor enough that he can't afford an awesome NYC loft...) and is always right and so deserves to take the law into his own hands and by the way he's not even super powered he's just REALLY good at martial arts! And all these attractive woman are immediately attracted to him! He's like Batman only we get to see him be good at regular people stuff, too, and he's blind (by not in a way that actually ever hinders him) so it feels like we're rooting for the underdog! I could stand for it to be played down some.

So far both Punisher and Elektra are both more interesting characters. Like the Punisher is a crazed psychopath but at least the show acknowledges that. The show doesn't want you to think Matt is all but totally perfect, it just wants you to agree with him all the time and think he's the best lawyer and see how good he is.
Matt is always right? The show wants us to agree with him all the time, and it never acknowledges the mistakes he's made? What show have you been watching? Matt has been wrong on several occasions, and other characters have called him on it. In episode 3 this season, Murdock and Castle had a debate on right and wrong, and many viewers took Castle's side. The show didn't paint it like Matt was right, and Castle was wrong. Then we had Karen agreeing with Castle's methods. On the lawyer side of things, Matt has screwed up plenty, which ended up with Foggy furious with him.

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Old 03-29-2016, 10:32 PM   #65
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Matt is always right? The show wants us to agree with him all the time, and it never acknowledges the mistakes he's made? What show have you been watching? Matt has been wrong on several occasions, and other characters have called him on it. In episode 3 this season, Murdock and Castle had a debate on right and wrong, and many viewers took Castle's side. The show didn't paint it like Matt was right, and Castle was wrong. Then we had Karen agreeing with Castle's methods. On the lawyer side of things, Matt has screwed up plenty, which ended up with Foggy furious with him.
See,I guess because of the way it's presented we're suppose to side with Matt. Like when Foggy gets upset with him we know what Matt has been doing, so we - the viewer - don't get upset with Matt. He was off doing heroics so we excuse him (for the most part). Similarly, I personally felt like the show didn't want me to side with Punisher during that argument. Even when Karen sides with him they give us plenty of crazy Frank who is purposefully ruining the attempts by N&M to help him (and we're suppose to be rooting for N&M) and have a kid yell that Frank killed his dad, etc. Those aren't traits of a sympathetic character. Plus by having Karen side with the Punisher it allows the audience to feel better about Matt cheating on her with Elektra. Or at least that's the tone I took away from the show. It's not so much that Matt is always right IN-UNIVERSE just that he's presented as right to the audience.

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Old 03-30-2016, 03:22 AM   #66
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

Didn't really enjoy the Hand plot. Too much outdated Orientalism and mysticism for me. Loved Elektra though - Elodie Yung was perfect.

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Old 03-30-2016, 05:59 AM   #67
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See,I guess because of the way it's presented we're suppose to side with Matt. Like when Foggy gets upset with him we know what Matt has been doing, so we - the viewer - don't get upset with Matt. He was off doing heroics so we excuse him (for the most part). Similarly, I personally felt like the show didn't want me to side with Punisher during that argument. Even when Karen sides with him they give us plenty of crazy Frank who is purposefully ruining the attempts by N&M to help him (and we're suppose to be rooting for N&M) and have a kid yell that Frank killed his dad, etc. Those aren't traits of a sympathetic character. Plus by having Karen side with the Punisher it allows the audience to feel better about Matt cheating on her with Elektra. Or at least that's the tone I took away from the show. It's not so much that Matt is always right IN-UNIVERSE just that he's presented as right to the audience.
I see your point, but I can't say that I agree. A big part of why Matt screwed up with Foggy wasn't just because he was off doing heroics, it was because he cared more about Elektra than the trial.

During the argument with Castle, I felt that the show did a great job with giving both characters good points. Castle had a solid argument, and he pointed out Daredevil's hypocrisy. When watching those two arguing, I really didn't know which one I was agreeing with the most. And I would definitely say that Castle is a sympathetic character. His monologue at the end of episode 4 was some powerful and emotional stuff. It just that the show doesn't only paint him in a sympathetic light, they dare to show the other side too. As they also do with Matt. They show Matt's hypocrisy, how ignorant he is when he thinks that he can balance both sides of his personality, and that he's addicted to hurting criminals. I think if the show wanted to show that Matt was completely in the right, and Castle in the wrong, then they wouldn't have it so Matt goes through character development and starts to see that his way isn't working, and that maybe Castle is right.

And Matt didn't cheat on Karen.

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Old 03-30-2016, 11:40 AM   #68
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

I like Karen and the actress that plays her, but I didn't like her getting shoehorned into so much of Frank's story. If he wasn't talking to Matt I didn't want him to talk to anyone.

The Hand was smaller scale than I was expecting.

Season 1 had a better variety with the fight scenes. Aside from the stairwell scene, this season was pretty much Matt vs. Ninjas. Not that that's bad, but it felt tired by the end of the season.

The skulls minimal screentime.

The Clancy Brown subplot.

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Old 03-30-2016, 12:36 PM   #69
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

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See,I guess because of the way it's presented we're suppose to side with Matt. Like when Foggy gets upset with him we know what Matt has been doing, so we - the viewer - don't get upset with Matt. He was off doing heroics so we excuse him (for the most part). Similarly, I personally felt like the show didn't want me to side with Punisher during that argument. Even when Karen sides with him they give us plenty of crazy Frank who is purposefully ruining the attempts by N&M to help him (and we're suppose to be rooting for N&M) and have a kid yell that Frank killed his dad, etc. Those aren't traits of a sympathetic character. Plus by having Karen side with the Punisher it allows the audience to feel better about Matt cheating on her with Elektra. Or at least that's the tone I took away from the show. It's not so much that Matt is always right IN-UNIVERSE just that he's presented as right to the audience.
To me Frank was the one who had the right idea. I mean, think about it - in the first season Matt went through hell to take down Fisk and have him arrested. He succeeded. And guess what - in this season we see Fisk effortlessly taking control of the whole prison to the point where he was eating steaks and drinking fine wine, and was able to release the Punisher like it was nothing. Heck, look at Turk, a sex trafficker and a career criminal; he was arrested in Season 1 along with the rest of Fisk's cronies; in the beginning of Season 2 he's back on the streets selling weapons. Matt's approach to fighting crime is shown to be ineffective. I found myself vehemently agreeing with Frank when he said the "You hit 'em and they get back up, I hit 'em and they stay down" line.

Not to mention that Matt's goody-goodness almost cost Elektra's life when that ninja injured her with the poisoned blade because he distracted her when she was about to kill him. He also took the time to get in Frank's way a few times when the two were battling the Irish gang.

I think the show presented the different ideologies in such a way that deciding who was right and who was wrong was the viewers' job.

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Old 03-31-2016, 01:31 PM   #70
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

Nobu is a weak big bad. We've already seen him defeated once, and his super-spooky ninja powers seem to consist of swinging a blade-on-a-chain, and surviving being set aflame with burn scars on roughly 1/3 of his face. This makes him compelling how? He is who, exactly?

Elektra is underdeveloped and two-dimensional. Does she have dormant superpowers? I have no reason to care about Black Sky because I'm not given enough information to hang my heart on. The writers need to tell us: 1) What Black Sky is. 2) Why we should care whether she/it lives or dies.

Who are the zombie junkies and what do they have to do with Black Sky?

Did they dig the resurrection sarcophagus out of the deep pit? What is the purpose of said pit?

Frank's CO is the Blacksmith: does that mean the Colonel was actually targeting Frank, and that's why the shootout really happened in the park? Or was it all a coincidence? This key element of the plot is as clear as mud.

Karen Page -- whom I actually like -- gets more screen time than Daredevil, and her scenes aren't compelling or original enough to sustain my interest.

Frank's dog was abandoned and forgotten about.

The graphic torture-porn violence is unnecessary and unpleasant. It makes slogging through some of the episodes a chore because I really don't want to see more spewing blood, dismembered body parts and bits of brain cascading all over my TV screen. We get it, blades slice flesh and bullets go boom and hurt a lot. We don't need to see every drop of x-rated gore to get this idea across.

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Old 03-31-2016, 04:11 PM   #71
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i can't stand karen page, she doesn't need to monopolize every episode. Please take a bullet to the head
this right here!!

Bullseye is our savior lol

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Old 03-31-2016, 06:20 PM   #72
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Yikes! I like Karen well enough, but I feel she was given more to do in s2 than her character really warrants. I certainly don't want to see her catch a bullet.

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Old 04-02-2016, 12:07 AM   #73
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

They really didn't know how to balance the Punisher and Elektra/Hand storylines. It felt like what could have been two different seasons forced into one.

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Old 04-02-2016, 01:00 AM   #74
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Punisher's cameo in the last episode.

There are 30 ninja plus Nobu and it's obvious Elektra and Daredevil are in for a tough fight and yet Frank is not helping/isn't there. They beat up all but 4 of the ninja, Nobu kills Elektra and Frank is still not helping/isn't there.

Finally, when DD obviously has no issues beating up the remaining ninja to get to Nobu, Frank kills them and nods to DD as if he was somehow being helpful. It reminded me of Olly killing Ygritte and nodding to Jon Snow.

They could have done that in 10 different ways and all of them would have been better. Teaming up, not teaming up but Frank killing 20 ninja on the roof, evening the odds or he could have blown Nobu's head instead of Stick coming out of nowhere.

I like to think Frank was watching the Matt & Elektra vs Hand fight from the beginning, but let Elektra die (because she is after all a murderer), then intervened and helped Matt when he really needed it.

After Frank takes out the few ninjas with the sniper rifle, I would have liked to see an entire wave of 20+ ninjas storm the roof, causing Frank to put that mini-gun to use while Matt goes off to fight Nobu.

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Old 04-02-2016, 11:42 AM   #75
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Default Re: What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

Eh, I can't see Frank deliberately getting Elektra killed. He really doesn't know her at all, and the most probable kills he could even theoretically know about are largely guys who Frank would kill, too.

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