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Old 04-08-2016, 10:44 PM   #51
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

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Umberto is saying that Warner Brothers is considering a theatrical release for the extended cut before the home video release.

You think there is any truth to this?



Yeah, everytime I hear it, I roll my eyes.
I sure hope so. I could see them doing it because A) it will bump up the box office numbers more
and B) its 31 minutes longer- it's going to be such a radically different cut of the movie I think it's going to change a lot of peoples opinions about it since a huge complaint of the movie was the editing and pacing(something that I don't agree with in the slightest, I thought the editing and pacing were very strong)

The downside is that if it IS released theatrically, we are NEVER going to hear the end of it "They only made the money that it did because it was re-released etc etc"

But hopefully if it satisfies those that were unimpressed with the theatrical cut, the good will outweigh the bad.

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Old 04-09-2016, 06:39 AM   #52
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

I would love to see the extended version on a big IMAX screen!

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Old 04-09-2016, 07:06 AM   #53
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I'm a sucker for ultimate and extended or director's cuts and to have a live action batman one is a dream come true. B.O should really only matter to investers in the movie. Yes fans need to know that a film they love makes money so they can get more movies in that series but in the end you will own it on your shelf and doesn't really matter who else likes it. More movies are already in pre and post production when bvs hit in this series so it doesn't really matter how if it doesn't reach 1 billion. It already broke records and is on its way to 800 million. I've always had a !@#$ the critics rule. Sorry that we didn't get the intended vision up on the big screen but for those who did like or love the theatrical release we now get a sweet bonus with this ultimate cut to enjoy at home.

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Old 04-09-2016, 07:15 AM   #54
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

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I would love to see the extended version on a big IMAX screen!
Can't wait for those extra 30 minutes.

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Old 04-09-2016, 07:57 AM   #55
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

Yep. Judging by what was shown and said, the film really suffered because of those cuts. Both scenes really improve logic of the film.

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Old 04-09-2016, 08:09 AM   #56
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

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I've seen BvS 4 times now. The hate this movie is getting is just insane. Using their moms' first names as a connection between them? Just brilliant. Batman spends the entire movie dehumanizing Superman, he's a monster, he's an alien. But in that final moment of their fight, discovering that Superman's mom's name is Martha, and seeing him pleading for his mom's life, it humanizes Superman for the first time in Batman's eyes. He's a boy desperately trying to save his mom, just like me. Oh I love this movie!

And Superman inspires Batman to be a better person by the end of the movie! He's a guy trying to do the right thing in a messed up world, but he keeps trying to do the right thing. And now Batman once again wants to be that too.
I really don't get the issue with how that as done. I thought it was very good for the reasons you state.

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Old 04-09-2016, 08:30 AM   #57
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

They thought three hours were too long for the audience, I wonder if the UC will change this perception and if it'll show in future films.

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Old 04-09-2016, 08:46 AM   #58
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Post Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

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Like I said in the reviews thread, I LOVED THIS MOVIE. When I came out of the cinema, there wasn't one thing I could say I didn't like and a week later, that still hasn't changed.

I think some people just weren't prepared for the magnitude of it. It's not just a movie, it's an event.

It'll be one of of those films I get on DVD but only have the mental energy to watch once a year (Like The Dark Knight, Lord of the Rings Trilogy) because it just takes so much out of you.
I too also loved this movie, and am sad that there might not be a follow-up, but there will be another Donnerverse-type reboot, which will be saccharine as **** and will give you diabetes from seeing it. Thanks for being such regressives, movie-going public.


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Old 04-09-2016, 08:46 AM   #59
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

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I've seen BvS 4 times now. The hate this movie is getting is just insane. Using their moms' first names as a connection between them? Just brilliant. Batman spends the entire movie dehumanizing Superman, he's a monster, he's an alien. But in that final moment of their fight, discovering that Superman's mom's name is Martha, and seeing him pleading for his mom's life, it humanizes Superman for the first time in Batman's eyes. He's a boy desperately trying to save his mom, just like me. Oh I love this movie!

And Superman inspires Batman to be a better person by the end of the movie! He's a guy trying to do the right thing in a messed up world, but he keeps trying to do the right thing. And now Batman once again wants to be that too.
This is great.
The people that reject this are fine I suppose. The people that don't get it and start with the memes and highlight them as plot holes are lacking imo. They asked the audience to think, they hung alot on that moment, perhaps they did it with the wrong (genre)movie.

I do wonder if people will come around(and fall off) 5 years removed from all this.

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Old 04-09-2016, 09:34 AM   #60
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

All future Zack Snyder films should be 3 hours, I think it's right around his comfort zone. And for god sakes, don't let Tsujihara call for re-edits on Snyders work. Thats like taking a work of art and spray painting it with graffiti. There were some very un-Snyder like things in this movie to make it a bit lighter toned, that I could immediately tell was not typical of his style. Especially how the score was used.

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Old 04-09-2016, 09:59 AM   #61
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

I understood from Snyder's interview that it isn't like the Watchmen situation.

I think the audience, not the studio, were his problem this time.

And although he prefers the 3 hour cut, he thought it'll be too long for the GA.

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Old 04-09-2016, 10:23 AM   #62
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

I'm thinking we do end up with a better film than what was in theater, after getting the extra 30 minutes added to cut.

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Old 04-09-2016, 11:03 AM   #63
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

Regardless of what he think, it's pretty clear the theatrical cut lacked self-explanation. People have to invent explanations to make the film hold together.

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Old 04-09-2016, 11:07 AM   #64
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

It's true that there's not much exposition in the film.

That doesn't mean you have to invent meaning. Meaning is conveyed in forms other than words, especially in film.

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Old 04-09-2016, 11:13 AM   #65
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

Well, you aren't disagree the film lacks exposition in some places and explanation. Obvious moments are:
1) Lex's blood and Doomsday;
2) What happened in Africa? How did Superman keep an eye on Lois? How did he learn it's time to intervene?
3) Why did Lex try to smuggle the rock before HH forbid him to do it (considering we know Batman was busy finding the guy/the ship before the import was forbidden)?
4) How did Lex figure out Batman's and Superman's identities?
5) How did Lois figured out the spear can help to kill DD?

I can invent explanations for all these based on what was shown in the film, but, IMO, it needed to be there.

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Old 04-09-2016, 11:23 AM   #66
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

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Well, you aren't disagree the film lacks exposition in some places and explanation. Obvious moments are:
1) Lex's blood and Doomsday;
2) What happened in Africa? How did Superman keep an eye on Lois? How did he learn it's time to intervene?
3) Why did Lex try to smuggle the rock before HH forbid him to do it (considering we know Batman was busy finding the guy/the ship before the import was forbidden)?
4) How did Lex figure out Batman's and Superman's identities?
5) How did Lois figured out the spear can help to kill DD?

I can invent explanations for all these based on what was shown in the film, but, IMO, it needed to be there.
The only one of those that I'm really not clear on is the smuggling of Kryptonite- unless he was using the White Portuguese to transport it regardless of wether it was legal or not. I'm not well versed on the legalities of shipping etc etc to understand that one.

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Old 04-09-2016, 11:24 AM   #67
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

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It's true that there's not much exposition in the film.

That doesn't mean you have to invent meaning. Meaning is conveyed in forms other than words, especially in film.
Yeah we went from the exposition heavy MOS to the very very light on exposition BVS- Though i prefer it that way tbh, especially because theres very little in the movie I feel comes down to a "plot hole"

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Old 04-09-2016, 11:38 AM   #68
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

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Well, you aren't disagree the film lacks exposition in some places and explanation. Obvious moments are:
..
2) What happened in Africa? How did Superman keep an eye on Lois? How did he learn it's time to intervene?
..
I can invent explanations for all these based on what was shown in the film, but, IMO, it needed to be there.
You are technically right. But I for one don't think films should take care to explain things that are otherwise made clear in other ways or simply internally logical. Otherwise we'd need explanations for where spidey keeps his suit, how long it takes him to change, etc. Stuff important to plot however...

That being said, this africa thing never cease to not bother me. Take care I'm about to invent stuff:
If lois, the very mortal love of superman's life was sent on assignment for a friday interview with the OSAMA jeremy BIN LADIN, at his strong hold and fully armed. Where exactly do you think superman would be during this time? Surely not on the treadmill catching up on some house of cards binge. The internal logic suggests that he was just out of sight and in costume monitoring her during this perilous discourse as we very well know he can. Maybe even in the upper atmosphere. The point being the motivation is clearly there, the means as well. Before it doesn't make sense, one needs to ask if it does without being explained.
Next week lois goes to interview Joker on the international space station, superman shows up just when things go badly....
Not suggesting you don't get it, but rather addressing the need to for a filmmaker to expound on such things every time.

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Old 04-09-2016, 11:55 AM   #69
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You are technically right. But I for one don't think films should take care to explain things that are otherwise made clear in other ways or simply internally logical. Otherwise we'd need explanations for where spidey keeps his suit, how long it takes him to change, etc. Stuff important to plot however...

That being said, this africa thing never cease to not bother me. Take care I'm about to invent stuff:
If lois, the very mortal love of superman's life was sent on assignment for a friday interview with the OSAMA jeremy BIN LADIN, at his strong hold and fully armed. Where exactly do you think superman would be during this time? Surely not on the treadmill catching up on some house of cards binge. The internal logic suggests that he was just out of sight and in costume monitoring her during this perilous discourse as we very well know he can. Maybe even in the upper atmosphere. The point being the motivation is clearly there, the means as well. Before it doesn't make sense, one needs to ask if it does without being explained.
Next week lois goes to interview Joker on the international space station, superman shows up just when things go badly....
Not suggesting you don't get it, but rather addressing the need to for a filmmaker to expound on such things every time.
This! many are citing this as a "plot hole" that he was able to find Lois but not his mom, but the movie makes it clear that he has to be specifically looking in order to find something- Which Snyder also confirmed yesterday. There are far too many nitpicks at this point. Most of this stuff is common sense honestly.

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Old 04-09-2016, 12:07 PM   #70
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Default Re: New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!) - Part 1

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It's true that there's not much exposition in the film.

That doesn't mean you have to invent meaning. Meaning is conveyed in forms other than words, especially in film.
That's one of the main words I would use to describe the film, meaningful. Personally thought it was a layered, dense misunderstood masterpiece of the comic book genre that is filled with philosophical, political, metaphysical, theological, and mythological themes. It's ripe with symbolism in both the story and the imagery, some of which looks like a comic book page come to life. It is at once both a meta commentary on the nature of the Superhero as well as our expectations of these fictional characters. It is both depressing and ultimately uplifting. It is by no means a by the numbers safe cookie cutter comic book film. It attempts to be something more than that. While delivering on the most base level of having moments that rival some of the better action and sci fi/fantasy. In my opinion a great comic book film.

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Old 04-09-2016, 12:09 PM   #71
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That's one of the main words I would use to describe the film, meaningful. Personally thought it was a layered, dense misunderstood masterpiece of the comic book genre that is filled with philosophical, political, metaphysical, theological, and mythological themes. It's ripe with symbolism in both the story and the imagery, some of which looks like a comic book page come to life. It is at once both a meta commentary on the nature of the Superhero as well as our expectations of these fictional characters. It is both depressing and ultimately uplifting. It is by no means a by the numbers safe cookie cutter comic book film. It attempts to be something more than that. While delivering on the most base level of having moments that rival some of the better action and sci fi/fantasy. In my opinion a great comic book film.
You just said exactly what I've been trying to say for weeks now. Clearly you have better writing skills than myself lol.

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Old 04-09-2016, 12:54 PM   #72
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I'm a sucker for ultimate and extended or director's cuts and to have a live action batman one is a dream come true. B.O should really only matter to investers in the movie. Yes fans need to know that a film they love makes money so they can get more movies in that series but in the end you will own it on your shelf and doesn't really matter who else likes it. More movies are already in pre and post production when bvs hit in this series so it doesn't really matter how if it doesn't reach 1 billion. It already broke records and is on its way to 800 million. I've always had a !@#$ the critics rule. Sorry that we didn't get the intended vision up on the big screen but for those who did like or love the theatrical release we now get a sweet bonus with this ultimate cut to enjoy at home.
That's the only thing I take comfort in right now. Sad sad times.

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That's one of the main words I would use to describe the film, meaningful. Personally thought it was a layered, dense misunderstood masterpiece of the comic book genre that is filled with philosophical, political, metaphysical, theological, and mythological themes. It's ripe with symbolism in both the story and the imagery, some of which looks like a comic book page come to life. It is at once both a meta commentary on the nature of the Superhero as well as our expectations of these fictional characters. It is both depressing and ultimately uplifting. It is by no means a by the numbers safe cookie cutter comic book film. It attempts to be something more than that. While delivering on the most base level of having moments that rival some of the better action and sci fi/fantasy. In my opinion a great comic book film.

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Old 04-09-2016, 01:16 PM   #73
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You are technically right. But I for one don't think films should take care to explain things that are otherwise made clear in other ways or simply internally logical. Otherwise we'd need explanations for where spidey keeps his suit, how long it takes him to change, etc. Stuff important to plot however...
While it doesn't really break the film, I think, some of this stuff is important for transition's sake. Yes, you can say they don't insult our intelligence by spoon-feeding, but it's not always like that. Sometimes we needed better explanation of logic of the film. Show in the film that Clark sees how Batman also saves lives or does good despite his methods, coupled with the scene, where he hopelessly tries to hear his captured mother, and it's far easier to understand why Superman wants to try to convince Batman to help him. Or show motivation behind creating Doomsday and why Lex decided he can control it, or show his mistake... Every 10 minutes we have to put so much stuff together to see the logic behind it all - it becomes truly frustrating. I spent two weeks analyzing the film before most of the stuff that is there made sense for me, and there's still stuff left, that requires explanation.
Quote:
That being said, this africa thing never cease to not bother me. Take care I'm about to invent stuff:
I understand that, I pretty much explained it just like you did. But just look at how much stuff we have to imagine or take into account. I personally love films, that don't spoon-feed. I love digging stuff in them, I love to figure it out. That's why I love David Lynch films for example. But maybe it's not the best way to tell a story in a film, that is supposed to make billions in BO.

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Old 04-09-2016, 01:50 PM   #74
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While it doesn't really break the film, I think, some of this stuff is important for transition's sake. Yes, you can say they don't insult our intelligence by spoon-feeding, but it's not always like that. Sometimes we needed better explanation of logic of the film. Show in the film that Clark sees how Batman also saves lives or does good despite his methods, coupled with the scene, where he hopelessly tries to hear his captured mother, and it's far easier to understand why Superman wants to try to convince Batman to help him. Or show motivation behind creating Doomsday and why Lex decided he can control it, or show his mistake... Every 10 minutes we have to put so much stuff together to see the logic behind it all - it becomes truly frustrating. I spent two weeks analyzing the film before most of the stuff that is there made sense for me, and there's still stuff left, that requires explanation.
I understand that, I pretty much explained it just like you did. But just look at how much stuff we have to imagine or take into account. I personally love films, that don't spoon-feed. I love digging stuff in them, I love to figure it out. That's why I love David Lynch films for example. But maybe it's not the best way to tell a story in a film, that is supposed to make billions in BO.
I didn't really imagine anything though outside of an analogy. Where else would superman's attention be in this moment, is the basic question. It starts there and the rest falls into place. I suppose showing where he is would 'help' but then again...

As much as showing us superman seeing batman do good would 'help' us believe superman see's him as a potential ally. The fact remains that superman's issue was clearly with batman's methods. That superman himself is a vigilante(and he has no problem with that) is something the critical mind takes into account. Clarks speech to Perry about 'the bat' was about his methods and civil liberties in an aim to do good. Not so much about him being some villain, he didn't take batman in, he just confronted him and told him to stop and gave him mercy..All of these clues into what clark thinks of the man. Thus needing batman's help in this particular goal isn't that much of a stretch. But why batman, why not the cops or something. Well batman was thrust into this by luthor 'go and find batman and perhaps you can save momma' luthor says. The matter is helped by the fact that clark just learned that batman has been manipulated as well. Perhaps together they can pool their considerable resources, batman as clark learned earlier has radio contacts all over gotham it seems. I don't consider this doing that work as an audience to be honest, sure things could be even more presented but like you said, sometimes we pay to also think a little. It's not really a fine line, I grew up reading papers and analysis on films like mad max and matrix that went far deeper into things then I ever dreamed, but something like I just presented seems like less than what is asked of the inception crowd.
Then we have the matter of why not also show clark struggle first to find her himself vs just the implication that if he could he would. I suppose this is the fine line a director walks. Perhaps there was a creative compromise made for they clearly had another direction on the table(though I think what was suggested would be even more distracting to the plot in that moment). But then again, that this was agreed upon after the fact might argue for it's validity in comparison. If he says he can't find her, why does the audience argue. Like if batman says he can't beat up 500 guys in a cage match...they could show it I suppose..But motivation is the key and he was motivated.

Still, a fair point. At this scale maybe they should take a more practical approach to things, perhaps shy away from 'save martha' like crux's. The masses are the masses. I just don't agree that this stuff should be overlooked on a critical level. That is, if it's there it's there sort of deal.

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Old 04-09-2016, 02:23 PM   #75
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I didn't really imagine anything though outside of an analogy. Where else would superman's attention be in this moment, is the basic question. It starts there and the rest falls into place. I suppose showing where he is would 'help' but then again...
Again, I don't say it breaks the film, it just makes it less accessible. You probably noticed already I'm one of the biggest defenders of this film on this board, so it's not really an attack on the film. It just a discussion about where it underperformed and how future movies can be improved.
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As much as showing us superman seeing batman do good would 'help' us believe superman see's him as a potential ally. The fact remains that superman's issue was clearly with batman's methods. That superman himself is a vigilante(and he has no problem with that) is something the critical mind takes into account. Clarks speech to Perry about 'the bat' was about his methods and civil liberties in an aim to do good. Not so much about him being some villain, he didn't take batman in, he just confronted him and told him to stop and gave him mercy..All of these clues into what clark thinks of the man. Thus needing batman's help in this particular goal isn't that much of a stretch. But why batman, why not the cops or something. Well batman was thrust into this by luthor 'go and find batman and perhaps you can save momma' luthor says.
Yes, it's indeed there. But I saw the film for the first time, I was like "Huh? Why Batman?"... But I'm a fanboy, obviously I don't leave it unanswered. But ordinary folk go into film, watch this scene and think "Gawd, this film is ridden with plotholes! Nothing makes sense! Characters have no motivation! One stupid decision after another! I don't want to watch it again..."

Another blink and you will miss it moment. Did Batman try to drive through Superman, thus attacking him, or it was just an accident? Because how does Clark know Batman has a beef against him (unless it's the signal, that indicates Batman went against his warning)?
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The matter is helped by the fact that clark just learned that batman has been manipulated as well.
How? UPD. Or he told it to Superman when he pit him again Batman? I watched the film a week ago last time, I forgot...
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Perhaps together they can pool their considerable resources, batman as clark learned earlier has radio contacts all over gotham it seems.
Elaborate, please. When did he learn that?
Quote:
I don't consider this doing that work as an audience to be honest, sure things could be even more presented but like you said, sometimes we pay to also think a little. It's not really a fine line, I grew up reading papers and analysis on films like mad max and matrix that went far deeper into things then I ever dreamed, but something like I just presented seems like less than what is asked of the inception crowd.
Mad Max films leave some stuff for interpretation, Matrix is extremely accessible and straight forward (gawd, I love Matrix!!!), you don't need to dig into stuff to understand what's going on and how.
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Then we have the matter of why not also show clark struggle first to find her himself vs just the implication that if he could he would. I suppose this is the fine line a director walks. Perhaps there was a creative compromise made for they clearly had another direction on the table(though I think what was suggested would be even more distracting to the plot in that moment). But then again, that this was agreed upon after the fact might argue for it's validity in comparison. If he says he can't find her, why does the audience argue. Like if batman says he can't beat up 500 guys in a cage match...they could show it I suppose..But motivation is the key and he was motivated.
Well, they filmed that scene, but cut it out because of R-rated material, it seems. Or maybe just time constraints. I want that scene back. It needs to be in the film. Actually, it makes the scene with Diana watching videos a bit better placed, because while she does that, Clark is trying to find his mother.
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Still, a fair point. At this scale maybe they should take a more practical approach to things, perhaps shy away from 'save martha' like crux's. The masses are the masses. I just don't agree that this stuff should be overlooked on a critical level. That is, if it's there it's there sort of deal.
Agree, they need to try leave less stuff for interpretation. Martha stuff worked for me, I think it was really great. People skew the logic of the moment in their jokes, but I think it was great. The way they constructed redemption for Batman. Just brilliant, but I have to admit, I didn't buy the first time I saw the film. Only when I left the theater and started to put it all together, I began to appreciate it and fell in love with the whole idea on my 2nd and 3rd viewings.

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Last edited by OutOfBoose; 04-09-2016 at 02:32 PM.
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