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Old 04-24-2018, 01:53 PM   #51
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Default Re: Marvel's Agents of SHIELD 5x18 "All Roads Lead" Discussion Thread

This sounds like trying to make excuses for why people don't crossover more than anything.

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Old 04-24-2018, 01:53 PM   #52
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Can I just say again that Daisy is an idiot. Ruby is imbued with the power to rip the earth apart. She has two psychotic minds fighting for control of her body, and Ruby herself wasnt very stable to begin with. Ruby says she is losing control. ****s shaking and Ruby is having temper tantrums. And Daisy's bright idea is to have a therapy session with that ticking timebomb. ****ing hell. At least YoYo was there to do the smart thing.

Wow they've written her into Mary Sue levels of nonsense. I would have respected her more if she made the hard decision to actually kill Ruby and deal with the guilt of murder, but now she the virtuous leader.

Hasn't May got decades more experience than her? Why isn't she the leader?

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Old 04-24-2018, 02:07 PM   #53
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This sounds like trying to make excuses for why people don't crossover more than anything.
Well yea kinda. I mean tonally some of the shows just don't match. The inhuman outbreak completely not acknowledge by the MCU.

The connected tv and movie universe's is an experiment. Some experiments don't give you the best results and some experiments just out right fail.

I'm not totally sold by the way Marvel are handling the connectivity between the movies and the Tv world. I would consider this a failed experiment.

Is it even necessary for the tv and movies to connect at this point? Will Infinity War effect season 2 of the Punisher, or whatever happens in Luke Cage and Jessica Jones?

If I was Marvel I would just say let it go at this point.

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Old 04-24-2018, 02:09 PM   #54
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Default Re: Marvel's Agents of SHIELD 5x18 "All Roads Lead" Discussion Thread

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Well yea kinda. I mean tonally some of the shows just don't match. The inhuman outbreak completely not acknowledge by the MCU.

The connected tv and movie universe's is an experiment. Some experiments don't give you the best results and some experiments just out right fail.

I'm not totally sold by the way Marvel are handling the connectivity between the movies and the Tv world. I would consider this a failed experiment.

Is it even necessary for the tv and movies to connect at this point? Will Infinity War effect season 2 of the Punisher, or whatever happens in Luke Cage and Jessica Jones?

If I was Marvel I would just say let it go at this point.
To be fair, how effected was Punisher War Zone when Infinity Gauntlet happened in the comics? Not very, right? Characters not at the center of an event like that will necessarily be effected. Sometimes, characters are not involved or other events just are not relevant. The world/universe is a big place.

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Old 04-24-2018, 02:47 PM   #55
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Wow they've written her into Mary Sue levels of nonsense. I would have respected her more if she made the hard decision to actually kill Ruby and deal with the guilt of murder, but now she the virtuous leader.

Hasn't May got decades more experience than her? Why isn't she the leader?
Essentially S.H.I.E.L.D is a collection of vigilantes who decided to follow Phil Coulson and Director Coulson thinks an Inhuman, or at least enhanced person should lead S.H.I.E.L.D

Any one from Mac or May to a redshirt that Deathlok flew in can leave anytime and live a life with government benefits like Sharon Carter but they trust in their unique mission and Coulson so they stay.

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Old 04-24-2018, 02:54 PM   #56
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To be fair, how effected was Punisher War Zone when Infinity Gauntlet happened in the comics? Not very, right? Characters not at the center of an event like that will necessarily be effected. Sometimes, characters are not involved or other events just are not relevant. The world/universe is a big place.
Yep good point. Any super heroics would have ruined Punisher.

That being said, if they want to continue the all connected formula, there going to have to establish some kind of relationship between the big screen and the small screen.

I would not expect to see Punisher anywhere near aliens, sentient robots or Asgardian gods (despite his interaction with them in the comics) etc, however I think he's earned a clash with Spiderman.

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Old 04-24-2018, 02:59 PM   #57
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Essentially S.H.I.E.L.D is a collection of vigilantes who decided to follow Phil Coulson and Director Coulson thinks an Inhuman, or at least enhanced person should lead S.H.I.E.L.D

Any one from Mac or May to a redshirt that Deathlok flew in can leave anytime and live a life with government benefits like Sharon Carter but they trust in their unique mission and Coulson so they stay.
Yea that seems to be the case on the show, and I have to call AoS out for bad writing. What has Daisy done to earn the right to be leader? Especially when May is right there. But whatever.
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Any one from Mac or May to a redshirt that Deathlok flew in can leave anytime and live a life with government benefits like Sharon Carter but they trust in their unique mission and Coulson so they stay.
Aren't they still on the run though?

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Old 04-24-2018, 05:04 PM   #58
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Default Re: Marvel's Agents of SHIELD 5x18 "All Roads Lead" Discussion Thread

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It's pretty simple. Like I already said in theory, the Netflix, ABC, MCU are in different universe's.

Different universes can still have parallel events like "the incident". But maybe the incident played out differently in the Netflix universe than they did in the MCU.

Runaways haven't even alluded to even minor MCU things like Stark tech, "The incident", Sakovia accords etc.

The Nick Fury that appeared in the first episode of AoS was the ABC doppleganger of the MCU's Nick.

The "it's all connected philosophy" hasn't really benefited the tv shows the way they've benefited the movies.

Doesn't bother me either way. Just something to think about.
How do you introduce the idea that this is the case? The producers have said it's not. Is the plan to just ignore what they say?

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Old 04-24-2018, 05:15 PM   #59
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Yea that seems to be the case on the show, and I have to call AoS out for bad writing. What has Daisy done to earn the right to be leader? Especially when May is right there. But whatever.

Aren't they still on the run though?
Because they choose to be on the run. Piper got caught and went to work for the government, General Hale is USAF and perhaps ATCU after all. Then she rebelled and rejoined the vigilantes when she saw the Hydra actions of the General

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Old 04-24-2018, 05:24 PM   #60
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Default Re: Marvel's Agents of SHIELD 5x18 "All Roads Lead" Discussion Thread

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Ruby only had 8% of the Gravitonium in her body. 8% is not enough to tear the earth apart.
How do we or Daisy know that for sure? Is it worth the risk? I don't think it is. Ruby was clearly mentally and physically unstable, uncontainable, possessed by two psychotic minds, and wielding powers with an unknown limit. The only thing Daisy and the team know for sure is that someone integrated with gravitonium destroys the earth. At that moment Ruby could fit the bill and considering her behavior and condition at that moment she needed to be put down. I don't expect her mother to be ok with it, but I expect Daisy or any leader to be able to make that call. Instead she tried to have a therapy session.

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Old 04-24-2018, 07:52 PM   #61
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How do you introduce the idea that this is the case? The producers have said it's not. Is the plan to just ignore what they say?
I'm not saying it WILL be done, I'm not even saying it should be done, I'm just saying the door is open if they change there mind and decide to go in that direction. The mulitverse was already hinted on in Dr Strange, and even Deke talked about alternate universe's being formed via time travel.

So from a creative pov it's not impossible or hard to explain.

They'll probably never do it because it's like Marvel admitting defeat. Most likely continue to function the way it is now with brief references here and there.

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Old 04-24-2018, 10:36 PM   #62
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Default Re: Marvel's Agents of SHIELD 5x18 "All Roads Lead" Discussion Thread

Perhaps General Hale will beg the Kree to bring her daughter Ruby back to life the same way Cassius brought the dead back to life in the future.

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Old 04-25-2018, 12:12 AM   #63
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I’m fine with Daisy being built up as the team leader, she’s really the star of the show now. At the same time, I’m on Team Yo-Yo here. If I were going up against a formidable opponent like Ruby & I knew the world could be cracked in half, I would kill her no question. Even if Ruby isn’t the Destroyer of Worlds, it’s more important that Yo-Yo & #Fitzsimmons to survive so that humankind has some hope for survival.

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Old 04-25-2018, 05:43 AM   #64
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Default Re: Marvel's Agents of SHIELD 5x18 "All Roads Lead" Discussion Thread

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I'm not saying it WILL be done, I'm not even saying it should be done, I'm just saying the door is open if they change there mind and decide to go in that direction. The mulitverse was already hinted on in Dr Strange, and even Deke talked about alternate universe's being formed via time travel.

So from a creative pov it's not impossible or hard to explain.

They'll probably never do it because it's like Marvel admitting defeat. Most likely continue to function the way it is now with brief references here and there.
I still don't think you understand my question. What actually physical mechanism would they have to do to declare them to be separate universe? How would they do it?

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Old 04-25-2018, 07:51 AM   #65
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I still don't think you understand my question. What actually physical mechanism would they have to do to declare them to be separate universe? How would they do it?
I would imagine that it would look like The Flash only with a Dr Strange/Ghost Rider porthole or another colored Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. monolith. Only then what is to prevent Sony from doing that to Spider-Man or an Edgar Wright to do that for Ant-Man and bang the MCU is dead, long live a director's singular vision of a bought product he will adapt. And we are back to conventional entertainment making

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Old 04-25-2018, 09:08 AM   #66
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I still don't think you understand my question. What actually physical mechanism would they have to do to declare them to be separate universe? How would they do it?
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I would imagine that it would look like The Flash only with a Dr Strange/Ghost Rider porthole or another colored Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. monolith. Only then what is to prevent Sony from doing that to Spider-Man or an Edgar Wright to do that for Ant-Man and bang the MCU is dead, long live a director's singular vision of a bought product he will adapt. And we are back to conventional entertainment making
Yea pretty much. Same way they do it in the comics. Secret War, Exiles. etc
If there's no dimension hoping mechanism that exist's now, the writers will create one.

Dr Strange and the magic users alone could tear a hole into the multiverse. I'm pretty are we actually saw it in his movie when Strange went on that mad psychedelic trip.

If you want to discuss why they would do it, then you have hundreds of comics to use as a story template. More recently the latest Secret Wars run.

Again, I'm not saying they SHOULD do it, I'm just saying it's an option.

It would be a great way to divorce the MCU/MtvU away from the Inhumans show. There wasn't a single tv or movie crossover/reference in that show so lets pretend it all happened in an alternate reality.


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Old 04-25-2018, 09:33 AM   #67
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Default Re: Marvel's Agents of SHIELD 5x18 "All Roads Lead" Discussion Thread

This is a lot of mental gymnastics just to erase Inhumans, dude.

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Old 04-25-2018, 10:05 AM   #68
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Another Kree monolith. I mean, they did establish that they had a few... if they were going to shift AoS into a slightly different universe.

But for me, the only show that really throws the continuity of them all being in the same universe is Luke Cage, and the second season of Jessica Jones. Daredevil and The Punisher are just vigilantes, as far as an agency like SHIELD would be concerned. There really isn't anything about either that says anyone is enhanced, since no one knows that Matt is blind. So, it's a local matter. SHIELD wouldn't care. But Luke is running around, getting filmed, right there out in the open with is strength and bullet-proof-ness. Yet he doesn't even get a visit by SHIELD? An attempt at recruitment? A warning about the Acccords? Same with Jessica. The case with Killgrave should have warrented some attention and then after someone should have shown up from SHIELD. Even if it was a completely new agent. Or Maria Hill. She's in New York too. But the last two seasons had Coulson and company too preoccupied to do it, and the Avengers are a little thin at the moment, so I don't mind those two not crossing at all.

As for Daisy as leader. When you think about where a lot of these characters were in the first season to who they are, their arcs are pretty amazing. I love how Simmons once couldn't lie to save her life, and had prepared for going undercover like it was a role in a Shakespearean play. Now, she's the type to carry a shiv and blackmailed the Director of SHIELD because she didn't trust him. And of course Fitz could barely get his parachute on out of panic in season one, yet know he'll go head to head with international terrorists if it gives him even a tiny hope of traveling across the universe to get Simmons. And the differences in them. But, their growth was shown. As was Daisy's going from Skye to Daisy, to the "vigilante" Quake. But since then, her suddenly being held up as the successor to Coulson feels rushed and out from left field. Especially when in terms of time passing on the show it hasn't been that long since she had taken off and basically forced them to have to track her down. She only got back in SHIELD's good graces because Mace figured arresting her would look bad. It was a PR move. Plus, she seems just as surprised that Phil wants her to take over. That's why it doesn't make much sense for me. If they had actually shown her leading that team of Inhumans for more than just one episode a few seasons back, we'd get a precursor to her moving up into Coulson's slot. (Also, May has been passed over too many times for my liking so I'm a bit bitter about that too. I don't care if she's a "specialist". Fury probably was at one time too.) Maybe it feels rushed becaues they thought this was definitely going to be the last season and things got moved up that were going to be next season?

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Old 04-25-2018, 11:05 AM   #69
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This is a lot of mental gymnastics just to erase Inhumans, dude.
That was a joke (hence the smiley). And it's not that hard at all.

Mulitiverse.

Simple.

And if you want to talk about mental gymnastics, spare a thought for the Netflix writers that are going to have to explain yet another "incident" in New York after Infinity War. How close to the action were Jess, Luke, Danny and Matt when Strange, Ironman, Wong, Bannner, had there showdown in the trailer?

I guess there were on holiday at the time or something lol. Or there going to write some janky tacked on scene with Jess and Luke helping bystanders out of rubble.


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Old 04-25-2018, 11:16 AM   #70
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Another Kree monolith. I mean, they did establish that they had a few... if they were going to shift AoS into a slightly different universe.

But for me, the only show that really throws the continuity of them all being in the same universe is Luke Cage, and the second season of Jessica Jones. Daredevil and The Punisher are just vigilantes, as far as an agency like SHIELD would be concerned. There really isn't anything about either that says anyone is enhanced, since no one knows that Matt is blind. So, it's a local matter. SHIELD wouldn't care. But Luke is running around, getting filmed, right there out in the open with is strength and bullet-proof-ness. Yet he doesn't even get a visit by SHIELD? An attempt at recruitment? A warning about the Acccords? Same with Jessica. The case with Killgrave should have warrented some attention and then after someone should have shown up from SHIELD. Even if it was a completely new agent. Or Maria Hill. She's in New York too. But the last two seasons had Coulson and company too preoccupied to do it, and the Avengers are a little thin at the moment, so I don't mind those two not crossing at all.

As for Daisy as leader. When you think about where a lot of these characters were in the first season to who they are, their arcs are pretty amazing. I love how Simmons once couldn't lie to save her life, and had prepared for going undercover like it was a role in a Shakespearean play. Now, she's the type to carry a shiv and blackmailed the Director of SHIELD because she didn't trust him. And of course Fitz could barely get his parachute on out of panic in season one, yet know he'll go head to head with international terrorists if it gives him even a tiny hope of traveling across the universe to get Simmons. And the differences in them. But, their growth was shown. As was Daisy's going from Skye to Daisy, to the "vigilante" Quake. But since then, her suddenly being held up as the successor to Coulson feels rushed and out from left field. Especially when in terms of time passing on the show it hasn't been that long since she had taken off and basically forced them to have to track her down. She only got back in SHIELD's good graces because Mace figured arresting her would look bad. It was a PR move. Plus, she seems just as surprised that Phil wants her to take over. That's why it doesn't make much sense for me. If they had actually shown her leading that team of Inhumans for more than just one episode a few seasons back, we'd get a precursor to her moving up into Coulson's slot. (Also, May has been passed over too many times for my liking so I'm a bit bitter about that too. I don't care if she's a "specialist". Fury probably was at one time too.) Maybe it feels rushed becaues they thought this was definitely going to be the last season and things got moved up that were going to be next season?
PRECISELY!!! That's all I wanted. Give me 5 eps of her leading the secret Warriors or something like you suggested then I would have been cool.

She still comes across as the emotional rebel then all of sudden she's leading the whole team? It looks so weird seeing her give May orders.

I actually think Fitz or Simmons would have been better choices. They understand the inner workings of Shield better and actually rose through the ranks of the organisation.

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Old 04-25-2018, 12:45 PM   #71
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I think Simmons outranked May when Mace took over. There were complaints about the color system he put in place, IIRC. And Simmons became his defacto second for a while. I remember being both annoyed and amused by all their complaining. Like they completely forgot that SHIELD let Hydra grow inside their own ranks for nearly 70 years! And then they went rogue and were still acting as if they had authority when the agency should have been completely disbanded. How about a little accountability, hmm guys?

You know, if they weren't going to let Daisy run her own team when she was with SHIELD maybe they should have let her have her own team when she was "Quake" going after the Watchdogs? Leadership role. Earned on her own.

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Old 04-25-2018, 05:14 PM   #72
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I would imagine that it would look like The Flash only with a Dr Strange/Ghost Rider porthole or another colored Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. monolith.
In other words, in order to say that the TV show isn't part of the movies, they need to show the TV shows in the movies?

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Old 04-25-2018, 05:35 PM   #73
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In other words, in order to say that the TV show isn't part of the movies, they need to show the TV shows in the movies?
More like they are not part of another show until the network thinks a crossover would boost ratings, right after which they are no longer related to another show.

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Old 04-25-2018, 08:51 PM   #74
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More like they are not part of another show until the network thinks a crossover would boost ratings, right after which they are no longer related to another show.
But they are part of the other show. They've referenced each other and the producers have said they're part of another show. I'm trying to figure out the mechanism for changing that. Is it just someone on the internet who isn't connected with the show says "now they're not" or is more required?

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Old 04-25-2018, 10:20 PM   #75
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PRECISELY!!! That's all I wanted. Give me 5 eps of her leading the secret Warriors or something like you suggested then I would have been cool.

She still comes across as the emotional rebel then all of sudden she's leading the whole team? It looks so weird seeing her give May orders.

I actually think Fitz or Simmons would have been better choices. They understand the inner workings of Shield better and actually rose through the ranks of the organisation.
Fitz has no business leading SHIELD. He is partially Hydra agent/psycho doctor in his mind.

But yeah...the "Daisy runs it" thin hasn't been earned. They botched that Secret Warriors thing really bad and it could have laid some ground work.

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