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Old 04-15-2018, 10:34 PM   #26
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Default Re: Season 8 Episode 16 "Wrath" Discussion Thread

They finished the season pretty damn strong. Too bad they couldn't start the season the same way.

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Old 04-15-2018, 10:37 PM   #27
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While simultaneously undercutting the next season.

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Old 04-15-2018, 10:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: Season 8 Episode 16 "Wrath" Discussion Thread

I have to imagine that anyone that didn't agree with Rick's decision to let Negan live could've just popped him from afar. Sure, they might've hit Siddiq too, but the option was there.

Also, another thing I was disappointed about- no F-bomb. With Negan and Rick facing off for the last time. The word has come up twice on Fear, but not at all on the main show? Especially after hearing that the show could do it. It's not a make or break thing, but I figured if it would come up any place, it would be in the finale.

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Old 04-15-2018, 11:20 PM   #29
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I have to imagine that anyone that didn't agree with Rick's decision to let Negan live could've just popped him from afar. Sure, they might've hit Siddiq too, but the option was there.

Also, another thing I was disappointed about- no F-bomb. With Negan and Rick facing off for the last time. The word has come up twice on Fear, but not at all on the main show? Especially after hearing that the show could do it. It's not a make or break thing, but I figured if it would come up any place, it would be in the finale.
the writers/producers of this show seem so afraid of actually breaking with convention. They have a HIT show and still play by the rules.

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Old 04-15-2018, 11:27 PM   #30
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To be fair, it is only a recent thing that basic cable shows have started to be a bit looser in the mature content. But yes, if Syfy is willing to go full swearing, AMC could. But, when you make as much money as this show does, you don't want to risk advertisers.

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Old 04-15-2018, 11:41 PM   #31
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Default Re: Season 8 Episode 16 "Wrath" Discussion Thread

Hasn't seemed to hurt Fear, which has gotten away with it twice, and Fear's arguably grown for the better since its first season, so not like that's lost any advertisers since dropping the F-bomb on air.

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Old 04-15-2018, 11:54 PM   #32
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To be fair, it is only a recent thing that basic cable shows have started to be a bit looser in the mature content. But yes, if Syfy is willing to go full swearing, AMC could. But, when you make as much money as this show does, you don't want to risk advertisers.
which is quite interesting as it's so popular, you'd think they'd be confident in doing whatever pleased. And yet, it makes them very insecure about upsetting advertisers.

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Old 04-16-2018, 01:13 AM   #33
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FX is also pretty lenient with the swears.

As for the episode, it felt surprisingly anticlimactic. Just compare it the Governor's second attack on the prison (which I think is the gold standard for war scenes of the series). No major characters die. The Saviors are all taken care of fairly easily. I thought at the very least we'd get a glimpse of the future, but I guess there won't be any time jump.

As for Negan, they should have just killed him off. Although, I suppose it was just as well they at least didn't include this part, which would have been really tough for Jeffrey Dean Morgan to sell



As for Maggie, that ending really didn't sit well with me. It's not a direction I want to see, especially from her. And Jesus going along with it is really out of character. I'm hoping they think twice about this.

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Old 04-16-2018, 01:41 AM   #34
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Default Re: Season 8 Episode 16 "Wrath" Discussion Thread

Eugene really saved AMC money by preventing an actual battle. 2 years building up to... that.

Angela Kang really needs to hire better directors and stop relying on Greg Nicotero. He comes up with some good shots every so often, but everything else is lacking. The reaction shots of characters looking around when they heard Negan on the megaphone were funny. Remember when this show had Michelle MacLaren and Ernest Dickerson directing big episodes? Good times.

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Old 04-16-2018, 01:52 AM   #35
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TWD Season 8 finale was very predictable. It lacked suspense and tension. The plot unfolded the way I figured it would. I knew before the episode aired that Eugene would give the saviors defective bullets, but it became more obvious in the episode the way the camera focused on him in certain moments. It was also obvious the Oceanside community would come in to save Tara & the Hilltop colony from the saviors, which was a very cliché and cheap moment. From a story perspective why else was Tara left behind to protect the Hilltop? Because of her connection/bond with Cyndie and the Oceanside colony. The digital fire (used in that sequence) looked subpar. And really that’s all it took (for the Oceanside community) to defeat those saviors? It’s also hilarious that Aaron’s lame pep talk/speech (from last week’s episode) convinced the Oceanside colony to fight.

Morgan’s nonsensical reasoning for leaving Virginia/Rick and co. on TWD felt forced. He somehow easily convinces Jadis/Anne to join Rick on rebuilding civilization/the new world. However, Morgan contradicts himself by telling Jadis that she shouldn’t try to survive alone or whatever, but he keeps himself isolated at the junkyard and then of course heads to Texas alone. Jesus/Paul convinces Morgan in the middle of a battle (for lack of a better word because that wasn’t much of a battle) to not kill any saviors but Rick, Michonne, Rosita, and Maggie killed a couple of ‘em after the saviors bullets malfunctioned their guns. Why Jesus didn’t try to convince them not to kill any either?

I didn’t find anything engaging about the predictable final showdown between Rick and Negan. I knew before the middle of the season Negan would survive because according to Gimple Carl had to die for Negan to survive. It’s hard for me to be excited during the fight because both Negan and Rick have already duked it out twice before so it was stale by this point. And yet the whole fight between Rick and Negan still managed to feel anticlimactic.

I wasn’t surprised all the core characters survived the finale because back in February it was confirmed that the cast (aside from Lauren Cohan) signed on for Season 9. This whole season had an opportunity to kill off major characters due to the war against Negan but only killed a bunch of minor characters/cannon fodder from both sides. Sure Carl died but not as a result of the war. One of the show’s biggest issues it has too many characters and difficulty balancing them. Sure Carl, Dwight, Morgan (and possibly Maggie) are gone but the cast is still bloated as heck. There’s a lot of useless and shallow characters that need to be written off the show and All Out Bore missed that opportunity.

Speaking of useless characters where was Gregory? Oh yeah, AMC was too cheap to pay the actor, but Maggie and Enid will give him a shout out on his whereabouts. Gregory is still alive even though the character has caused so many problems and has long outlived his usefulness.

I wasn’t entirely convinced by the remainder of the saviors surrendering in the end and working with Rick and co. on rebuilding the society. Saviors like Laura were very loyal to Negan. So to see them surrender and planting gardens or whatever the next day just wasn’t convincing, but contrived because the Negan/saviors arc had to come to an end in order for all the communities to come together to rebuild society. Plus I don't care for most of the saviors who were mostly brainwashed thugs of Simon and Negan. The writers failed to give me a reason in both Season 7 and 8 why I should believe the saviors have changed and fallen in line with Rick.

I also wasn’t convinced that nobody from Rick’s alliance attempted to kill Negan especially after all he put the communities through. Maggie plotting something against Rick for letting Negan live probably won’t get explored next season because of the behind the scenes contract drama going on between AMC and Cohan. It’s hypocritical of Jesus/Paul to go along with Maggie and Daryl to plot behind Rick’s back to kill Negan because he was all about letting the saviors live for the entire season i.e. forcing Morgan to quit killing again, etc. They really haven't any clue in writing Jesus/Paul's character.

I wasn’t surprised Daryl didn’t keep his word about killing Dwight. Daryl threatened to kill him once again if he’d ever see him again, which is hilarious because I’ve lost count how many times he’s made empty threats towards Dwight‘s life. So now that Dwight left to find/reunite with Sherry that probably means Daryl will be taking his storylines from the comics.

Overall a very “meh” and predictable episode/finale to a very mundane season centering around war and characters with stagnant and recycled arcs. This whole season could’ve been summed up in less episodes (no more than eight) and should’ve been either the second half of Season 7 or the first half of this season. Aside from Gimple and Nicotero cutting back on the time skips and pretentious writing/filmmaking the best thing about the episode was that Rick Vs Negan/saviors is finally over. Good riddance.

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Old 04-16-2018, 05:54 AM   #36
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Default Re: Season 8 Episode 16 "Wrath" Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Elevator Man View Post
TWD Season 8 finale was very predictable. It lacked suspense and tension. The plot unfolded the way I figured it would. I knew before the episode aired that Eugene would give the saviors defective bullets, but it became more obvious in the episode the way the camera focused on him in certain moments. It was also obvious the Oceanside community would come in to save Tara & the Hilltop colony from the saviors, which was a very cliché and cheap moment. From a story perspective why else was Tara left behind to protect the Hilltop? Because of her connection/bond with Cyndie and the Oceanside colony. The digital fire (used in that sequence) looked subpar. And really that’s all it took (for the Oceanside community) to defeat those saviors? It’s also hilarious that Aaron’s lame pep talk/speech (from last week’s episode) convinced the Oceanside colony to fight.

Morgan’s nonsensical reasoning for leaving Virginia/Rick and co. on TWD felt forced. He somehow easily convinces Jadis/Anne to join Rick on rebuilding civilization/the new world. However, Morgan contradicts himself by telling Jadis that she shouldn’t try to survive alone or whatever, but he keeps himself isolated at the junkyard and then of course heads to Texas alone. Jesus/Paul convinces Morgan in the middle of a battle (for lack of a better word because that wasn’t much of a battle) to not kill any saviors but Rick, Michonne, Rosita, and Maggie killed a couple of ‘em after the saviors bullets malfunctioned their guns. Why Jesus didn’t try to convince them not to kill any either?

I didn’t find anything engaging about the predictable final showdown between Rick and Negan. I knew before the middle of the season Negan would survive because according to Gimple Carl had to die for Negan to survive. It’s hard for me to be excited during the fight because both Negan and Rick have already duked it out twice before so it was stale by this point. And yet the whole fight between Rick and Negan still managed to feel anticlimactic.

I wasn’t surprised all the core characters survived the finale because back in February it was confirmed that the cast (aside from Lauren Cohan) signed on for Season 9. This whole season had an opportunity to kill off major characters due to the war against Negan but only killed a bunch of minor characters/cannon fodder from both sides. Sure Carl died but not as a result of the war. One of the show’s biggest issues it has too many characters and difficulty balancing them. Sure Carl, Dwight, Morgan (and possibly Maggie) are gone but the cast is still bloated as heck. There’s a lot of useless and shallow characters that need to be written off the show and All Out Bore missed that opportunity.

Speaking of useless characters where was Gregory? Oh yeah, AMC was too cheap to pay the actor, but Maggie and Enid will give him a shout out on his whereabouts. Gregory is still alive even though the character has caused so many problems and has long outlived his usefulness.

I wasn’t entirely convinced by the remainder of the saviors surrendering in the end and working with Rick and co. on rebuilding the society. Saviors like Laura were very loyal to Negan. So to see them surrender and planting gardens or whatever the next day just wasn’t convincing, but contrived because the Negan/saviors arc had to come to an end in order for all the communities to come together to rebuild society. Plus I don't care for most of the saviors who were mostly brainwashed thugs of Simon and Negan. The writers failed to give me a reason in both Season 7 and 8 why I should believe the saviors have changed and fallen in line with Rick.

I also wasn’t convinced that nobody from Rick’s alliance attempted to kill Negan especially after all he put the communities through. Maggie plotting something against Rick for letting Negan live probably won’t get explored next season because of the behind the scenes contract drama going on between AMC and Cohan. It’s hypocritical of Jesus/Paul to go along with Maggie and Daryl to plot behind Rick’s back to kill Negan because he was all about letting the saviors live for the entire season i.e. forcing Morgan to quit killing again, etc. They really haven't any clue in writing Jesus/Paul's character.

I wasn’t surprised Daryl didn’t keep his word about killing Dwight. Daryl threatened to kill him once again if he’d ever see him again, which is hilarious because I’ve lost count how many times he’s made empty threats towards Dwight‘s life. So now that Dwight left to find/reunite with Sherry that probably means Daryl will be taking his storylines from the comics.

Overall a very “meh” and predictable episode/finale to a very mundane season centering around war and characters with stagnant and recycled arcs. This whole season could’ve been summed up in less episodes (no more than eight) and should’ve been either the second half of Season 7 or the first half of this season. Aside from Gimple and Nicotero cutting back on the time skips and pretentious writing/filmmaking the best thing about the episode was that Rick Vs Negan/saviors is finally over. Good riddance.
Wow..... i agree with almost everything you have written.

On a birght side, i can only see this show improving next season. Gimple is out .... If he stayed any longer he would have "scott buck" this show.

Angela Kang will surely do a better job than him.

I also like the premise of maggie & daryl turning dark next season (though i also don't get why jesus seems to be agreeing with her).

Gimple is out...... the future have to be better for this show.

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Old 04-16-2018, 08:15 AM   #37
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Gimple isn't out, though. And if you think Kang will just throw out what her boss set up, then I have a bridge to sell you.

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Old 04-16-2018, 12:20 PM   #38
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Regarding Maggie, thinking it over I think she might take the role of another character from the comics. Without getting too spoilery, I could see her make a move to cut off ties between Alexandria and the Hilltop. That the Hilltop won't be part of Rick's new world order.

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Old 04-16-2018, 01:09 PM   #39
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So now that Dwight left to find/reunite with Sherry that probably means Daryl will be taking his storylines from the comics.
Well considering Sherry and Dwight were together for most of the post All Out War comic run, perhaps not.

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Old 04-16-2018, 01:10 PM   #40
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Regarding Maggie, thinking it over I think she might take the role of another character from the comics. Without getting too spoilery, I could see her make a move to cut off ties between Alexandria and the Hilltop. That the Hilltop won't be part of Rick's new world order.
Or her head could be on a fence post instead of another character, since his actor has been there less time and is probably cheaper.

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Old 04-16-2018, 01:24 PM   #41
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Or they could be trying to make maggie an unlikeable villian and kill of her in the mid-season finale for season 9 (as they might not wanna increase her $$$).

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Old 04-16-2018, 01:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Elevator Man View Post
TWD Season 8 finale was very predictable. It lacked suspense and tension. The plot unfolded the way I figured it would. I knew before the episode aired that Eugene would give the saviors defective bullets, but it became more obvious in the episode the way the camera focused on him in certain moments. It was also obvious the Oceanside community would come in to save Tara & the Hilltop colony from the saviors, which was a very cliché and cheap moment. From a story perspective why else was Tara left behind to protect the Hilltop? Because of her connection/bond with Cyndie and the Oceanside colony. The digital fire (used in that sequence) looked subpar. And really that’s all it took (for the Oceanside community) to defeat those saviors? It’s also hilarious that Aaron’s lame pep talk/speech (from last week’s episode) convinced the Oceanside colony to fight.

Morgan’s nonsensical reasoning for leaving Virginia/Rick and co. on TWD felt forced. He somehow easily convinces Jadis/Anne to join Rick on rebuilding civilization/the new world. However, Morgan contradicts himself by telling Jadis that she shouldn’t try to survive alone or whatever, but he keeps himself isolated at the junkyard and then of course heads to Texas alone. Jesus/Paul convinces Morgan in the middle of a battle (for lack of a better word because that wasn’t much of a battle) to not kill any saviors but Rick, Michonne, Rosita, and Maggie killed a couple of ‘em after the saviors bullets malfunctioned their guns. Why Jesus didn’t try to convince them not to kill any either?

I didn’t find anything engaging about the predictable final showdown between Rick and Negan. I knew before the middle of the season Negan would survive because according to Gimple Carl had to die for Negan to survive. It’s hard for me to be excited during the fight because both Negan and Rick have already duked it out twice before so it was stale by this point. And yet the whole fight between Rick and Negan still managed to feel anticlimactic.

I wasn’t surprised all the core characters survived the finale because back in February it was confirmed that the cast (aside from Lauren Cohan) signed on for Season 9. This whole season had an opportunity to kill off major characters due to the war against Negan but only killed a bunch of minor characters/cannon fodder from both sides. Sure Carl died but not as a result of the war. One of the show’s biggest issues it has too many characters and difficulty balancing them. Sure Carl, Dwight, Morgan (and possibly Maggie) are gone but the cast is still bloated as heck. There’s a lot of useless and shallow characters that need to be written off the show and All Out Bore missed that opportunity.

Speaking of useless characters where was Gregory? Oh yeah, AMC was too cheap to pay the actor, but Maggie and Enid will give him a shout out on his whereabouts. Gregory is still alive even though the character has caused so many problems and has long outlived his usefulness.

I wasn’t entirely convinced by the remainder of the saviors surrendering in the end and working with Rick and co. on rebuilding the society. Saviors like Laura were very loyal to Negan. So to see them surrender and planting gardens or whatever the next day just wasn’t convincing, but contrived because the Negan/saviors arc had to come to an end in order for all the communities to come together to rebuild society. Plus I don't care for most of the saviors who were mostly brainwashed thugs of Simon and Negan. The writers failed to give me a reason in both Season 7 and 8 why I should believe the saviors have changed and fallen in line with Rick.

I also wasn’t convinced that nobody from Rick’s alliance attempted to kill Negan especially after all he put the communities through. Maggie plotting something against Rick for letting Negan live probably won’t get explored next season because of the behind the scenes contract drama going on between AMC and Cohan. It’s hypocritical of Jesus/Paul to go along with Maggie and Daryl to plot behind Rick’s back to kill Negan because he was all about letting the saviors live for the entire season i.e. forcing Morgan to quit killing again, etc. They really haven't any clue in writing Jesus/Paul's character.

I wasn’t surprised Daryl didn’t keep his word about killing Dwight. Daryl threatened to kill him once again if he’d ever see him again, which is hilarious because I’ve lost count how many times he’s made empty threats towards Dwight‘s life. So now that Dwight left to find/reunite with Sherry that probably means Daryl will be taking his storylines from the comics.

Overall a very “meh” and predictable episode/finale to a very mundane season centering around war and characters with stagnant and recycled arcs. This whole season could’ve been summed up in less episodes (no more than eight) and should’ve been either the second half of Season 7 or the first half of this season. Aside from Gimple and Nicotero cutting back on the time skips and pretentious writing/filmmaking the best thing about the episode was that Rick Vs Negan/saviors is finally over. Good riddance.
You nailed it. I wanna quit this show, but I'm so bored on Sunday nights.

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Old 04-16-2018, 01:57 PM   #43
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All I wanna know is will we have more Michonne next season since she's all done with BP and IW filming.

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Old 04-16-2018, 02:06 PM   #44
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Or her head could be on a fence post instead of another character, since his actor has been there less time and is probably cheaper.
Maybe, although I'm not sure that ending would be fitting a long standing character such as Maggie. It would be shocking, for sure, though.

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Or they could be trying to make maggie an unlikeable villian and kill of her in the mid-season finale for season 9 (as they might not wanna increase her $$$).
If that's the case, that's going to be a tough sell to the audience, who has mostly been on Maggie's side.

That's why I think they'll do a remix of this scene here, with Maggie in place of this character. Spoilers for those not up on the comics

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:


Given where the characters are now, I think this conversation would sound right coming out of Maggie's mouth.

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Old 04-16-2018, 04:08 PM   #45
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As far as TWD season finales go, there have been worse IMO (the season 3 and 5 finales were anticlimactic), but it still capped off a mostly lackluster season. It just feels like this should have happened a while ago.
The Season 3 finale was the most frustrating, so much so that they had to spend the first half of S4 making up for it. This was just... meh. I don't think I can muster up any strong feelings for this show anymore. I'm beyond frustration, beyond wishing for it to be better. I don't feel anything for it.

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Old 04-16-2018, 06:02 PM   #46
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Well considering Sherry and Dwight were together for most of the post All Out War comic run, perhaps not.
A reunion between the two would be nice.

Dwight really became a pretty likeable and sympathetic character towards the end.

I'm happy he survived and was given a good ending (for now?)...

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Old 04-16-2018, 08:18 PM   #47
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I just hope for no more flashbacks

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Old 04-16-2018, 08:26 PM   #48
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All I wanna know is will we have more Michonne next season since she's all done with BP and IW filming.
I'd love to see more of her myself.

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Old 04-17-2018, 01:19 PM   #49
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That ending though. I get that they want to set up Season 9, and I’m not opposed conceptually to a civil war. After 8 seasons of countless external conflicts, it would be a nice change of pace AND much more tragic to see the group turn on each other. BUT, I didn’t at all buy this heel turn from Maggie, much less Jesus and Daryl.

Ok, Jesus, so I’m supposed to believe that after an entire season of you endangering the group with your peaceful philosophies and convincing Morgan to not kill, that you would all of a sudden be opposed to sparing Negan?

And gee Daryl, I dunno, maybe it was kind of your outburst that got Glenn killed in the first place. I know he suffered the consequences, made peace with Maggie, and had some tension with Rick as far as how to deal with the saviors that was short lived, but I’m not getting the bitterness against Rick at all.

As for Maggie? I get that she’s hurt, angry and feels betrayed, but this sneaky back handedness goes completely against the moral fiber of her character. I feel as though she would confront Rick face to face, not conspire and essentially become a de facto villain.

I know it was a quick scene that will undoubtedly be fleshed out next season, but the setup just felt out of nowhere and wrong. Like so many things these last two seasons, it could have, and should have, been executed so much better.

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Old 04-18-2018, 08:50 PM   #50
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Default Re: Season 8 Episode 16 "Wrath" Discussion Thread

In the comics, whose the big bad after Negan is captured?

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