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Old 06-13-2018, 11:08 AM   #676
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Default Re: F'dup Chapters in American History(The Trump Years) - - - - - - - - - -

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What he said wasn't whattaboutism. Clinton committed perjury, was impeached but not removed.

You're not going to get more than that with Trump, and that's best-case scenario for those opposing him. He's not out before November 2020, and even then...
Clinton's perjury and impeachment are not even in the same strata as what's potentially going to be levied against Trump if even half of these things being bandied about come to pass.

Hell, this could potentially make Watergate look like the Monica Lewinsky scandal by comparison.

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Old 06-13-2018, 11:11 AM   #677
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What he said wasn't whattaboutism. Clinton committed perjury, was impeached but not removed.

You're not going to get more than that with Trump, and that's best-case scenario for those opposing him. He's not out before November 2020, and even then...
I know that's what you desperately wish , but you know nothing about what the the charges ultimately will be or what the so called "best case scenario" even means. Making declarative statements without any ev8dence or expertise or judgement just makes you look like an idiot. Or a troll. In your case those are really the only two options.

And comparing completely d8fferent cases from different times involving different people as if theyre similar because they involved presidents is straight up stupid.

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Old 06-13-2018, 11:23 AM   #678
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Ridiculous. There's no official iron-clad evidence public yet that he did break the law either. Mueller might have it, and he might find him guilty on some of this, but we don't have access to that info yet personally.

And even then, Congress isn't removing him even if guilty. Not in a nation this divided right down the middle. Most likely situation here is he's found innocent of any collusion, but comes off charged on the minor stuff and public opinion among the moderates is swayed enough to vote him out in 2020. But he's not getting removed by lawmakers, it'd be a cluster**** more than it's worth. Even if guilty.

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Old 06-13-2018, 11:31 AM   #679
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Wall Street Journal - Talking to Trump: A How-To Guide

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Around the same time, Mr. Trump had an idea about how to counter the nuclear threat posed by North Korea, which he got after speaking to Russian President Vladimir Putin : If the U.S. stopped joint military exercises with the South Koreans, it could help moderate Kim Jong Un’s behavior. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis used an approach that aides say can work: “He says, ‘Your instincts are absolutely correct,’ and then gets him [the president] to do the exact opposite of what his instincts say,” said one person close to the White House. Mr. Trump dropped the idea, although he has ordered aides to give the exercises a low profile, eliminating press releases and briefings about them.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/talking...ide-1516303402 (January 18, 2018)


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Old 06-13-2018, 11:37 AM   #680
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Manafort's witness tampering hearing on Friday.

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Old 06-13-2018, 12:04 PM   #681
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Clinton's perjury and impeachment are not even in the same strata as what's potentially going to be levied against Trump if even half of these things being bandied about come to pass.

Hell, this could potentially make Watergate look like the Monica Lewinsky scandal by comparison.

Well, you said it yourself. "Potentially". Could be he's found guilty, could be he's not. There's a huge spectrum of what he could be charged with as opposed to not charged with, what they want to pursue and what they don't, what they can prove and what they can't. You don't know he's definitely guilty of specific crimes any more than the Red Hats know he's innocent of everything, and the reality is likely that it'll be something in-between. Guilty on some, not-guilty on others. The degree of which we won't know until Mueller releases his report.

The point being made was, there's going to have to be a huge honkin' smoking gun that we don't know about yet, to result in Congress voting to throw him out on his ass. It's so unlikely to happen, just temper expectations. Even if he's guilty, he's still more than likely fininishing out his term.

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Old 06-13-2018, 12:18 PM   #682
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People have been rising up against the regime in Iran but what we don't want is a Iranian version of the current Syrian civil war. A conflict like the Iran is not good for anyone.

Iran was economically incentivized to stick to the agreement. The Iranian regime was against the deal while the Iranian public was in favour of it.

As part of the deal Iran had reduced it's uranium stockpile by 98% and could only enrich at site (natanz).

Weapons grade plutonium is not a easy thing to make nor conceal.

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Old 06-13-2018, 12:51 PM   #683
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Mueller requests 150 blank subpoenas in Manafort case
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Special counsel Robert Mueller is asking for 150 blank subpoenas in the case surrounding former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort.

The request would cover 75 potential subpoenas for witnesses, according to the Washington Examiner, which added that recipients must appear on July 25 to testify.

The request for the subpoenas was filed Tuesday in Virginia, where Manafort resides.

The special counsel also filed a request for 70 blank subpoenas in May.

Manafort is facing charges including failing to register as a foreign agent as part of the special counsel's investigation into Russia's election meddling and possible collusion between President Trump's campaign and Moscow.

He is also facing tax fraud charges and is accused of not reporting foreign bank accounts.

Mueller, earlier this month, accused Manafort of attempting to tamper with witnesses while on pretrial release.

Manafort will appear in court Friday, when Mueller's team will argue that he be sent back to jail in light of the allegations of witness tampering.

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Old 06-13-2018, 01:19 PM   #684
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Originally Posted by Aximili86 View Post
Ridiculous. There's no official iron-clad evidence public yet that he did break the law either. Mueller might have it, and he might find him guilty on some of this, but we don't have access to that info yet personally.

And even then, Congress isn't removing him even if guilty. Not in a nation this divided right down the middle. Most likely situation here is he's found innocent of any collusion, but comes off charged on the minor stuff and public opinion among the moderates is swayed enough to vote him out in 2020. But he's not getting removed by lawmakers, it'd be a cluster**** more than it's worth. Even if guilty.
"There's no evidence to substantiate a claim on either side, but let me tell you exactly what's going to happen..."

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Old 06-13-2018, 01:23 PM   #685
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clinton whataboutism plus false equivalency, eh? Its quite clear what side youre on.
Quick to judge I see. Its ok, say or do as you feel. Makes no difference to me. No matter "what side I'm on" I do not judge or agress someone that may or may not have different beliefs than myself. Part of what makes the US so great. People have forgotten that.

Besides, I was simply stating my opinion on the subject. I could be wrong, I could be right. Time will tell. But it grows tiring being labeled or attacked here based on opinions.

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Old 06-13-2018, 01:26 PM   #686
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Default Re: F'dup Chapters in American History(The Trump Years) - - - - - - - - - -

Belief (however you define it personally) has nothing to do with it. Nothing.

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Originally Posted by KangConquers

At the risk of being totally offensive...there's a quote from Ghandi about Christianity that can be reappropriated for this.

"I like your Christopher Nolan, but I do not like your Nolanites."
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:29 PM   #687
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"There's no evidence to substantiate a claim on either side, but let me tell you exactly what's going to happen..."
Who has the time to read their previous posts? Some of us have jobs yknow...

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Originally Posted by KangConquers

At the risk of being totally offensive...there's a quote from Ghandi about Christianity that can be reappropriated for this.

"I like your Christopher Nolan, but I do not like your Nolanites."
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:34 PM   #688
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Belief (however you define it personally) has nothing to do with it. Nothing.
Again, say what you want. But I personally find your labeling and aggression to those with their own opinion or opinions different from your own to be quite silly. Especially when based on such a simple statement.

Carry on, Hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.

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Old 06-13-2018, 03:19 PM   #689
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So, you don't believe our own source that they were complying? Sure, Iran was doing some ****** things. But the Iran deal was about one thing- non-proliferation. Which was working. And the thing is, if we had kept our end of the bargain, it was a viable first step to tackle the other things. Especially since it would be giving the moderate wing of the Iranian government a major success and more viability in power. Which is better than regime change. At least the Iranians seem to have a bit more freedom than the Saudis, if you want to talk about bad actors in the Middle East.
I believe our inspectors, sure. Do I fully trust inside sources? No. They might not even be aware of 100%. Do I trust Iran? No. The deal works off of the assumption that we know of and inspect all of their enrichment labs. That’s trusting Iran. I don’t trust Iran. They sponsor terrorism. They want to destroy Israel. That doesn’t even include the fact that they are still allowed to enrich uranium for nuclear power in an oil rich Country...which is a huge red flag. I don’t agree with giving them a dime in cash but I’m fine with economic manipulation as a deal but with no real consequences or the complete shutdown of enrichment I think Iran won hand over fist. I don’t think we got anything out of it of substance. Plus, the only reason they decided to come to a deal was after their labs were hacked...setting them back years. That’s not someone I would have a trust deal with.

I agree that Saudi is a bad actor and ALL the politicians cater to the Saudi’s.

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Old 06-13-2018, 03:27 PM   #690
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Also in relation to my first post on party line hypocrisy concerning the NK summit: It’s interesting to see Democrats negatively reacting about Trump decreasing military spending in SK after Democrats have consistently harped on decreasing military spending, an end to the US military industrial complex, and an end to US world policing.

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Old 06-13-2018, 03:30 PM   #691
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I trust science. If our inspectors and the UN inspectors that specialize in this stuff said they were doing what they were supposed to be doing then they were doing what they were supposed to be doing. Iran isnt going to outmaneuver nuclear scientists and the people that specialize in inspecting this stuff. The half life of the materials used to make nuclear power and nuclear bombs ranges from millions to billions of years. That **** isnt easy to clean up and hide. Also, part of the Iran deal was limiting their enrichment process to such a degree that it wasnt remotely possible to make a bomb so allowing them to continue enriching uranium enough for nuclear power was harmless.

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Old 06-13-2018, 03:47 PM   #692
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Also in relation to my first post on party line hypocrisy concerning the NK summit: It’s interesting to see Democrats negatively reacting about Trump decreasing military spending in SK after Democrats have consistently harped on decreasing military spending, an end to the US military industrial complex, and an end to US world policing.
yes, because domestically we have the same imminent threat level of all out war and limited military capacity that they do in South Korea, so these situations are completely analogous and not in any way at all a false equivalency.

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Old 06-13-2018, 05:32 PM   #693
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Also in relation to my first post on party line hypocrisy concerning the NK summit: It’s interesting to see Democrats negatively reacting about Trump decreasing military spending in SK after Democrats have consistently harped on decreasing military spending, an end to the US military industrial complex, and an end to US world policing.

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Old 06-13-2018, 05:47 PM   #694
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Also in relation to my first post on party line hypocrisy concerning the NK summit: It’s interesting to see Democrats negatively reacting about Trump decreasing military spending in SK after Democrats have consistently harped on decreasing military spending, an end to the US military industrial complex, and an end to US world policing.

Uh... Isn't that the publicly stated "Libertarian" postion we have all heard for decades?


And as I have pointed out many times before wasn't a good part of the online shilling for Trump by supporters based on the idea of Hillary Clinton as a war hawk that would get us into war in some way?

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Old 06-13-2018, 06:46 PM   #695
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Surely the same damn analysis could be made of what went down in Singapore with Kim though.

Also with the Cohen thing, him co-operating doesn't necessarily mean there's stuff here on Trump. Just that they have stuff on Cohen and he might want to throw some other Manafort types to the wolves to get a slap on the wrist instead of anything more.
Look at the 6 or 7 indictments we already have guilty please and cooperation from. You don't seem to quite understand how someone cooperates with an investigation.

This means Cohen will agree to give up information to save his own ass a tad. They squeeze the little fish to get to the bigger fish. Almost all the other players on Cohen's level have plead guilty or are currently indicted (Manafort).

The FBI isn't going to lessen his charges for people lower than him. They could accept several others on his leve but, again, most of them are already roped up. They aren't going to lessen his charges for dirt on people they already have locked up or about to get locked up.

That leaves Trump, Pence, 1 or 2 top GOP members cabinet members, and Trump's immediate family (most of which are complete morons they already have mountains of evidence against).

Process of elimination tells us the noose is pretty tight right about now.

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What he said wasn't whattaboutism. Clinton committed perjury, was impeached but not removed.

You're not going to get more than that with Trump, and that's best-case scenario for those opposing him. He's not out before November 2020, and even then...
Care to make a wager on that?

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I believe our inspectors, sure. Do I fully trust inside sources? No. They might not even be aware of 100%. Do I trust Iran? No. The deal works off of the assumption that we know of and inspect all of their enrichment labs. That’s trusting Iran. I don’t trust Iran. They sponsor terrorism. They want to destroy Israel. That doesn’t even include the fact that they are still allowed to enrich uranium for nuclear power in an oil rich Country...which is a huge red flag. I don’t agree with giving them a dime in cash but I’m fine with economic manipulation as a deal but with no real consequences or the complete shutdown of enrichment I think Iran won hand over fist. I don’t think we got anything out of it of substance. Plus, the only reason they decided to come to a deal was after their labs were hacked...setting them back years. That’s not someone I would have a trust deal with.

I agree that Saudi is a bad actor and ALL the politicians cater to the Saudi’s.
Geopolitcs makes for strange bedfellows. I'm actually not against working with any of those you listed or Russia or China. As long as it's done with the betterment of the USA and world in mind.

I think we can both agree that is not what we are currently looking at in regards to the Orange one.

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Old 06-13-2018, 08:59 PM   #696
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Also in relation to my first post on party line hypocrisy concerning the NK summit: It’s interesting to see Democrats negatively reacting about Trump decreasing military spending in SK after Democrats have consistently harped on decreasing military spending, an end to the US military industrial complex, and an end to US world policing.



Not being a Democrat myself, I'm happy to report it's not just Democrats that think the Trump/Kim "summit" was about as substantial as a submarine made out of saltines.

Kim Jong Un says "sure we'll get rid of our nukes for you..."
Trump replies "great, we'll start moving our troops out of position for you..."


Nothing signed, nothing concrete decided, and all we really saw was the President licking Kim's boots.



Nothing worthwhile was accomplished here diplomatically, yet a certain segment of the political landscape is reacting like Trump walked on water back to the U.S. after the summit.

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Old 06-13-2018, 09:25 PM   #697
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Not being a Democrat myself, I'm happy to report it's not just Democrats that think the Trump/Kim "summit" was about as substantial as a submarine made out of saltines.

Kim Jong Un says "sure we'll get rid of our nukes for you..."
Trump replies "great, we'll start moving our troops out of position for you..."


Nothing signed, nothing concrete decided, and all we really saw was the President licking Kim's boots.



Nothing worthwhile was accomplished here diplomatically, yet a certain segment of the political landscape is reacting like Trump walked on water back to the U.S. after the summit.
This.

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Old 06-13-2018, 09:59 PM   #698
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So, it looks like the WH's main liars may be leaving.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sarah-s...inkId=52982815

Good luck finding replacements for those jobs.

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Old 06-13-2018, 10:35 PM   #699
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No one in their right mind would work there.

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Old 06-14-2018, 12:52 AM   #700
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Trump propaganda mural at the Southwest Key Programs (SKP) center (Concentration Camp) in Brownsville, Texas:




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