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Old 01-11-2018, 12:11 PM   #126
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
All lists are flawed since consensus has no actual worth, all that really matters to ourselves in the end are our own opinions. That of course doesn't mean that other people's opinions can't be interesting to read or discuss, I just mean that it's sad if people try to justify their opinions by pointing to what others think.
You've posted on here before right ?

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Old 01-11-2018, 03:40 PM   #127
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At 2....

Logan
As is right and proper

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Old 01-12-2018, 12:04 PM   #128
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

Collidor' Top 50 thoughts:

Batman v. Superman doesn't deserve to be an honorable mention
Surprised all the MCU movies are in the Top 50 except Iron Man 2. Ragnarok is not on the list because of the date of it's release.
I've said in the past that TDK > TWS/CW > BB > TFA > TDKR and collectively that's why I prefer the Captain America Trilogy to the TDKT. Glad someone agrees with me. Although I do believe that TDKR should be slightly higher.
Wonder Woman is too high.
Spider-Man 2 should be in the Top 10.
As previous stated, I like that the Top 6 MCU are in the Top 13.

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Old 01-12-2018, 12:20 PM   #129
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

I've noticed that all the people who don't like The Dark Knight say 'it's Number One because of Heath Ledger's performance and because he died' as if to minimise the rest of the film. This is garbage, of course. The film is a complete package, of which Ledger's performance is just one part.

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Old 01-12-2018, 12:27 PM   #130
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And.....(grand fanfare).....at Number 1

The Dark Knight



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Old 01-12-2018, 01:34 PM   #131
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

Bravo. Well deserved.

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Old 01-12-2018, 02:31 PM   #132
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

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I've noticed that all the people who don't like The Dark Knight say 'it's Number One because of Heath Ledger's performance and because he died' as if to minimise the rest of the film. This is garbage, of course. The film is a complete package, of which Ledger's performance is just one part.
No they don't. As usual people that try to speak for everyone of a certain opinion fail. I don't think the film is more than good and that it's Nolan's 2nd to 3rd least good film, but I don't make excuses for why many others like it so much or try to put words in other people's mouths.

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Old 01-12-2018, 04:37 PM   #133
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In the 'winner's' video posted above at the 8:48-9:07 stage, with Dennis Tzeng explaining his view on why there isn't a CBM which will 'top' it for all the same reasons....and I appreciate this entire thread choice, let alone the Collider list choice is ultimately subjective & personal beyond any other chosen parameter or remit, and for all the reasons I can see why TDK has been chosen at 1, Dennis' wording at this frame of the vid....Superman The Movie matched it in all the key example areas he lists as the points for consideration. For me, for it's importance and how well it is made, Superman (1978) is the winner and here on the Collider list at 6 !???!!! Really !! utter bobbins.

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Old 01-12-2018, 10:43 PM   #134
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

I'm just glad they highlighted Nolan and other actors, not just Ledger. Its easy to act like Ledger is the sole reason why this movie is great, but that's never really been the case.

That was probably their best video in their "Top 50" series.

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Old 01-13-2018, 03:06 AM   #135
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I'm just glad they highlighted Nolan and other actors, not just Ledger. Its easy to act like Ledger is the sole reason why this movie is great, but that's never really been the case.

That was probably their best video in their "Top 50" series.
I appreciate they 'collectively' only have limited time to give their reasons on the video's across each film, but a lot of them, inc. this final one, barely touch the film making aspects of the actual films, they are 'ooh this is cool because'... reasoning for their choice.

As a film maker, I would have liked to have seen beyond the 'character' to a certain extent on each of these and into the film making choices and breakdown of that given they are numerically choosing the best of CBM's not characters. Not saying this happens with EVERY choice or video, but I think it prevalent in many of how the video's are presented and the way the films are eulogized over.

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Old 01-13-2018, 07:56 AM   #136
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As previous stated, I like that the Top 6 MCU are in the Top 13.
I have my issues with this list (X2 shouldn't be anywhere near the top 10 and WW is definitely not better than Iron man) , but I do like how it highlights that the MCU is comprised of quality along with quantity. Most of the films in the top 10 are MCU films.

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Old 01-13-2018, 08:08 AM   #137
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

The Dark Knight.

Others ...

The Dark Knight Rises
Watchmen
300
Sin City
Man of Steel
Ragnarok
Guardians of the Galaxy
First Class
Spider Man 2

ETA: I forgot Snowpiercer.


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Old 01-13-2018, 11:25 AM   #138
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Bravo. Well deserved.
Always will be.

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Old 01-13-2018, 11:38 AM   #139
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

TDK is the best, but I’m hoping something more comic-booky like Avengers 4 can exceed or at least match it some day.

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Old 01-13-2018, 12:21 PM   #140
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

I personally think TDK has been surpassed even in the "serious" (for lack of a good one-word description) CBM category. I think Logan has fewer flaws, has better characters and is more emotional. Neither are among the best in terms of action, but Logan has much better hand to hand action and takes that part in the comparison as well. TDK has a much better villain though. The ones in Logan aren't that special.

I don't think either of them are the best at capturing the essence and feel superheroes though. But I like TDK and I love Logan.

As for the list I don't really care, nor would I if it would have somehow perfectly aligned with my list (that I'll never make, I'm not a fan of detailed rankings).


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Old 01-13-2018, 12:47 PM   #141
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

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I personally think TDK has been surpassed even in the "serious" (for lack of a good one-word description) CBM category. I think Logan has fewer flaws, has better characters and is more emotional. Neither are among the best in terms of action, but Logan has much better hand to hand action and takes that part in the comparison as well. TDK has a much better villain though. The ones in Logan aren't that special.

I don't think either of them are the best at capturing the essence and feel superheroes though. But I like TDK and I love Logan.

As for the list I don't really care, nor would I if it would have somehow perfectly aligned with my list (that I'll never make, I'm not a fan of detailed rankings).
The thing is that "TDK is the best" has become a cliche at this point, so even if a better CBM emerged we might not be able to realize it, or be afraid of saying it / arguing it. It's also the case that other CBMs have not had as much time to be influential, and are now dealing with more competition.

I'd say that Ragnarok and Snowpiercer come closest (for me), but they have not done as well with the general audience. In both cases, I can't possibly say if I enjoy them as much on 6th or 7th rewatch.

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Old 01-13-2018, 01:14 PM   #142
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

I don't think people would be afraid to argue that TDK has been surpassed. IMO, TDK actually hasn't been surpassed, but you still see people arguing otherwise all the time.

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Old 01-13-2018, 01:32 PM   #143
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

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The thing is that "TDK is the best" has become a cliche at this point, so even if a better CBM emerged we might not be able to realize it, or be afraid of saying it / arguing it.It's also the case that other CBMs have not had as much time to be influential, and are now dealing with more competition.

I'd say that Ragnarok and Snowpiercer come closest (for me), but they have not done as well with the general audience. In both cases, I can't possibly say if I enjoy them as much on 6th or 7th rewatch.
10 years into the genre, how many franchises attempted that approach? How many stayed that way?

TNT apparently found value in Snowpiercer.

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Old 01-13-2018, 01:37 PM   #144
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

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The thing is that "TDK is the best" has become a cliche at this point, so even if a better CBM emerged we might not be able to realize it, or be afraid of saying it / arguing it. It's also the case that other CBMs have not had as much time to be influential, and are now dealing with more competition.

I'd say that Ragnarok and Snowpiercer come closest (for me), but they have not done as well with the general audience. In both cases, I can't possibly say if I enjoy them as much on 6th or 7th rewatch.
It's true that time does cement things. I, for example, love the original Star Wars trilogy and I'm quite sure my love for it has been cemented over all the years.

Whether people don't realize it or are afraid to say it I don't know. I don't want to put words into anyone else's mind. I'm also well aware that I'm outside the norm in my opinions of TDK and I of course don't begrudge anyone else of loving it.

I've actually not seen Snowpiercer. Maybe I should do that tonight as the evening just opened up for me.

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Old 01-13-2018, 01:42 PM   #145
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It's true that time does cement things. I, for example, love the original Star Wars trilogy and I'm quite sure my love for it has been cemented over all the years.

Whether people don't realize it or are afraid to say it I don't know. I don't want to put words into anyone else's mind. I'm also well aware that I'm outside the norm in my opinions of TDK and I of course don't begrudge anyone else of loving it.

I've actually not seen Snowpiercer. Maybe I should do that tonight as the evening just opened up for me.
Imo, watch snowpiercer with the lights dimmed, the cell phone turned off and out of view, and a bottle of red wine.

Then report back to us tomorrow :-)

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Old 01-13-2018, 01:43 PM   #146
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

Ragnarok will certainly go down as one of the best.

Snowpiercer is excellent. Haven't seen it in years but it's definitely a good one.

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Old 01-13-2018, 02:47 PM   #147
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

ROFL


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Old 01-13-2018, 03:10 PM   #148
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Default Re: Winner Takes it All....

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I personally think TDK has been surpassed even in the "serious" (for lack of a good one-word description) CBM category. I think Logan has fewer flaws, has better characters and is more emotional. Neither are among the best in terms of action, but Logan has much better hand to hand action and takes that part in the comparison as well. TDK has a much better villain though. The ones in Logan aren't that special.
Which is why TDK holds its ranking. Logan is an awesome film, yes, but its villains are one-dimensional, and that's all they really need to be. The focus is on Logan, Charles and Laura/X-23.

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I don't think either of them are the best at capturing the essence and feel superheroes though.
Jackman said the theme of Logan is, essentially, "violence, and its consequences." Mangold and Jackman didn't set out to conclude the saga with a "superhero" film.

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