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#51 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2009
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Well the coin thing actually preceded BTAS as well, its from the 70s - the era that Forever referenced to most As for Nolan's influences I tried to gather as much as I could with others - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/201...es-part-v.html Forever admittedly did well with their research on their 70s, its the characterization of Batman I cant seem to find a match of.
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#52 | |
I Heart Amazons
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Like the car design in that movie is a mid 90's take on the golden age batmobile but then you have a 90's comic looking Batboat. I found more silver age than bronze or golden age in that movie though for sure. Things like "drag queen" Riddler and "Oh No! it's boiiiiiiiiling aciiiiiiiiid" are just much more in line with the quirky nature of the silver age comics.
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I enjoy comic book adaptations but I'm a comic book fan first and foremost. Not a comic book movie fan. Last edited by Cain; 01-23-2012 at 09:41 PM. |
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#53 |
Side-Kick
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Well, for me hes way too stoic, relaxed and half asleep for a bronze or Modern Age Batman, and not easy going and enthusiastic enough to be the Silver Age Batman, and not a creepy killing dark creature to be the early '39/'40 Batman
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#54 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2012
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I like that Nolan is staying away from the surreal. It's more interesting to see how believable this world can come to life.
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#55 |
Viva La Revolucion!
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I had no idea Batman Forever was referencing the 70's aesthetically. I'll have to watch it again.
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Jerry and Joe were gentlemen. Bob Kane was a thief and a glory-hound who was more concerned about profit and prestige. I cannot bring myself to believe the same things about Stan Lee in regards to his two main contributors, Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko. I'm inclined to believe Stan's version of events as he has usually been very willing to credit his co-conspirators, but the truth is because different versions of credit exists, we will never truly know. |
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#56 | |||
Deadpan Snarker
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Agreed. When the thugs run in the alley when they see him, I don't really buy it because Val Kilmer's Batman doesn't seem to do anything that would scare people. I can buy criminals being scared ****less of Batman as portrayed by Michael Keaton or Christian Bale, because they make an effort to be intimidating, which Val Kilmer never did.
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#57 |
I Heart Amazons
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Bronze age Batman wasn't really known for intimidation though. He was an adventurous hairy chested batgod. They tried that with Kilmer. Now whether you think it was successful or not is a whole different thing altogether.
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#58 | |
Deadpan Snarker
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But the alley scene of Forever shows a hundred goons run away scared just because they see Batman (so it is a fair criticism), but I don't really buy it in that scene because Kilmer never makes an effort to be intimidating as Batman.
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#59 | ||
Side-Kick
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I believe the goons run away cause its "the legendary Batman" so they didnt want their asses kicked. Kind of like goons running away from cops, not cause theyre scary, but cause theyll get in trouble when caught
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#60 | ||
Deadpan Snarker
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#61 | |
I Heart Amazons
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Keaton had some bronze age elements too BTW but there was a whole lot of golden age there too. With Kilmer I saw more bronze age in his Batman than anything else. Especially with the head butting with Dick Grayson something that B&R expanded on further which is a bronze age influence on that movie too.
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I enjoy comic book adaptations but I'm a comic book fan first and foremost. Not a comic book movie fan. |
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#62 |
Side-Kick
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I think the closest to being a match with Kilmer is Infantino's 60s Batman.
Btw, heres an example from top of my head from the 70s. Batman was pretty much like Bale is in Nolan's movies since the 70s. This is from 1971's Brave and the Bold #93 ![]()
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#63 | |
I Heart Amazons
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He was a Batman that had no problem making out with babes while wearing a cowl ![]() or qupping every now and then ![]() Uploaded with ImageShack.us or coming to the apartment of half naked babes that he's conflicted with as both Bruce Wayne and Batman ![]() Oh and of course Kilmer was the only actor to sport the hairy chest like the bronze age hairy chested batgod. It's those little subtle quirks among many more in the movie that remind of bronze age Bats in BF. There is some "new look" Batman there too most definitely but I think the bronze age elements are most prevalent in my mind when watching him n BF.
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#64 | ||
Deadpan Snarker
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Agreed.
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#65 |
I'm NOT Batman
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In 2005 the night began. In 2008 the night was at its darkest. In 2012 the dawn will rise. I like: The Star Wars prequels, Spider-Man 3, Transformers, X-men 3, the Pirates sequels, and Indiana Jones 4. WARNING! My opinion might be invalid!
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#66 | ||||
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#67 | |
Side-Kick
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Two-Face has been subdued with coins on numerous occasions in the comics. But I see where you're coming from with that. My point was that Schumacher's Bat films came out right on the heels of BTAS and the whole thing was that they allegedly wanted him to tone down what Burton did and meanwhile no one seems to have been paying attention to what Schumacher was doing because they let that stuff see the light of day and went back for a second round no less. At which point he did just what Burton did and amped up his own personal quirk. Meanwhile, BTAS was sitting right there in front of them showing how you make a Batman that is marketable to both kids and adults. One that doesn't talk down to his viewers and maintains the right amount of danger, fun, dark psychology and adventure to appeal to a mighty broad demographic to this day. Honestly, if I had to choose what Batman movies with Mr. Freeze I'd have released in theaters I would have chosen Batman & Mr. Freeze: Subzero over Batman & Robin. And Subzero was originally going to be released as a tie-in to B&R but because B&R was such a stinker they held onto Subzero for a year afterwards. And it is by far the superior film with Batman, Robin, Batgirl and Mr. Freeze in it. And it's not even that great by BTAS standards.j Cripes, if only the studio execs had been on the ball enough to find a director that would have brought a live action version of BTAS to the big screen. Batman would never have lost credibility. By the same token, the disaster that is Schumacher did pave the way for the amazing Nolan films. So... 6 of one, half a dozen of the other I guess. |
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#68 | |
Viva La Revolucion!
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The word "GROUNDED" has become popular to the Nolanites hasn't it. What is grounded about Nolan's approach? The idea that Nolan's Batman is somehow something closer to reality is laughable. Every other aspect of these films is pretty realistic, but Batman, his armored suit and his toys are not
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Jerry and Joe were gentlemen. Bob Kane was a thief and a glory-hound who was more concerned about profit and prestige. I cannot bring myself to believe the same things about Stan Lee in regards to his two main contributors, Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko. I'm inclined to believe Stan's version of events as he has usually been very willing to credit his co-conspirators, but the truth is because different versions of credit exists, we will never truly know. |
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#69 | |
Cool Rider
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But Bruce Timm did approve it. ![]()
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#70 |
Viva La Revolucion!
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As great as the Nolan films are, they lack a certain fun that Burton's films had.
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Jerry and Joe were gentlemen. Bob Kane was a thief and a glory-hound who was more concerned about profit and prestige. I cannot bring myself to believe the same things about Stan Lee in regards to his two main contributors, Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko. I'm inclined to believe Stan's version of events as he has usually been very willing to credit his co-conspirators, but the truth is because different versions of credit exists, we will never truly know. |
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#71 |
The Clown Prince of Crime
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Not for me they don't.
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#72 |
I Heart Amazons
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I think at times they become victims of their own heavy handed pretenses and ridiculous exposition. However that criticism pretty much applies to every post-BB Nolan project outside of The Prestige for me. So it's not exclusive to the Bat movies and not enough of a hindrance to kill their entertainment for me neither.
They're not the visceral experiences that I find the Burton movies to be (especially the first one). I don't even think they've tapped into the potential of Bale in that role at all while Burton did so with Keaton. They don't leave me humming the theme over the credits or wanting to speed down the road in a batmobile afterwards; but they're still very effective forms of entertainment. TDK is still my favorite Batman movie overall. BB while really flawed (I pretty much hate a lot of the supporting cast's acting as well as the ****** 3rd act) is still the best live action movie starring the character to me so far. It attempted to make him 3 dimensional and Bale completely sold it. Even though I feel he was still let down script wise and could've been even better in something more focused & better structured.
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I enjoy comic book adaptations but I'm a comic book fan first and foremost. Not a comic book movie fan. Last edited by Cain; 01-25-2012 at 01:28 PM. |
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#73 | |
Banned User
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But I would not for one second change what Nolan has done. Nor what Burton has. Every time I feel their movies lack of something the other did, I understand the words "you... complete... me." This is the way I enjoy both directors' movies. |
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#74 |
I Heart Amazons
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I think the fact that both directors made 4 pieces of solid cinema with the same foundations is a testament to how rich and diverse this character and his world really are. What other superhero franchise has had 4 critically and financially well received live action movie entries? not even Superman and certainly not the X-Men. Sometimes Batman fans forget just how good they really have it.
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#75 |
Hathaway #1
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I bought Batman Begins: The Screenplay, and at the front they have a Q and A with Nolan and Goyer. Both are asked about Burton. Here’s what Nolan says:
What did you think of the preceding films, notably Tim Burton? “I think the first film has its place in history; what Tim Burton did could certainly be considered visionary – but it didn’t speak to me personally. It’s not a great personal favorite of mine. It wasn’t my Batman. It didn’t speak to me on that level, even though I appreciated all the skill and artistry of it. It wasn’t the Batman film I’d wanted to see, in terms of a film that showed his origin story. I felt like there was a version of Batman that never got made in 1979 – ten years before. When Dick Donner made Superman in 1979, it seems odd that they didn’t do Batman in that same way – with that epic sensibility.” You must have read Miller’s books around the time of the 1989 Batman, and already been thinking in the opposite direction to Burton… “Yeah, it was right around that time. The thing with Burton is that he had the challenge of convincing a cinema audience that you could have a ‘cool’ Batman film. Convincing an audience who remembers that the TV show was ridiculous. And he did it, he succeeded. The way he did it was to make the entire world that he lives in – Gotham – as peculiar and extraordinary as Batman is. So he fits in with that type of hyper-real, hyper-stylized universe on its own terms. That then convinced everybody that you could have a ‘cool’ Batman film. So that isn’t a hurdle that we have to get over with this film and, because of that, we are more free to treat the world around him as more ordinary and so allow his extraordinary nature to stand out. For me it was very important that the audience watching the film would feel for people in Gotham – Batman is an extraordinary a figure for them as he is for us in the audience. Goyer had this to say: How did you relate to the portrayal of batman in the films compared to the comic books? Well, I liked the way he was portrayed in the comic books much more than he was in the films. I liked the first of the previous films [Tim Burton’s Batman 1989]. But I felt the later films became more akin to the TV show and were somewhat out of synch with the way that batman was currently being depicted in the comic books. |
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