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View Poll Results: Box Office battle between Thor 3 and Justice League, who wins
Thor 96 63.16%
Justice League 56 36.84%
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:09 PM   #101
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

I'm curious what kind of an impact Hulk's presence will actually make on the box office.

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Old 05-09-2017, 11:42 PM   #102
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Thor View Post
He really isn't. People couldn't care less about Cyborg, and that applies to Aquaman too.
I'm guessing that you aren't aware of the success of the Teen Titans cartoon. It got several award nominations and actually lasted longer than Justice League. It was HUGE in the early 2000s, which is why it spawned the 2nd comedic series. Cyborg has also been in 17 different animated DC films. Some of us old codgers also remember him from Super Friends. That's a huge amount of non-print exposure for a character whom "people couldn't care less about."

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Old 05-10-2017, 12:07 AM   #103
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

I voted JL simply because it's Justice League and seeing Supes, Bats, WW, Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman share a film together can be just as special as The Avengers was.

Thor 3 wouldn't surprise me too much, though.

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Old 05-10-2017, 12:11 AM   #104
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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Originally Posted by Kirk Langstrom View Post
Neither of the Thor movies have beaten ANY of the DCU movies thus far, so with that in mind, i think the novelty of the JL getting together for the first time on the big screen outweighs anything Ragnarok has to offer...
Personally - I believe you're overstating the novelty. Maybe to comic book fans, but the GA is basically having this forced on them in attempt to fast track a cinematic universe. There is most definitely is novelty in a Thor/Hulk pairing as audiences are already familiar and they know they're both the powerhouses of the MCU.

I'll still take the original Thor over MoS or BvS.

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Old 05-10-2017, 11:17 AM   #105
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

This is a tough one!

I notice that people aren't really weighing in the "Strange" factor. The dude raked in nearly $700 million in his debut and scored a 90% on RT. Ragnorok comes out a year after and will be his first reappearence. So who wins? Thor + Hulk + Strange OR the JL?

It's down to Wonder Woman. If it's good, JL has a good chance. If it's under 60% on RT...rest in peace DC.

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Old 05-12-2017, 06:08 PM   #106
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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This is a tough one!

I notice that people aren't really weighing in the "Strange" factor.
The dude raked in nearly $700 million in his debut and scored a 90% on RT. Ragnorok comes out a year after and will be his first reappearence. So who wins? Thor + Hulk + Strange OR the JL?

It's down to Wonder Woman. If it's good, JL has a good chance. If it's under 60% on RT...rest in peace DC.
I think that's just because the Doc won't be in Ragnarok much. Probably just the earth based scenes, of which there are supposedly very few. Maybe a glorified cameo.
I think it's more of a Thor + Hulk + Loki + Cate Blanchett vs Batman + Superman + WW + "everyone else". With the behind the scenes factrors of Waititi vs Snyder.

I'm 99.99% sure Waititi turns in the better film.
I'm also pretty sure JL will gross more than Ragnarok domestically. But worldwide I think it'll be pretty close. Both falling in the low-mid $800's.


Also, I don't think WW will play much role in JL's success. Even if WW is great JL still has to contend with Snyder.

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Old 05-12-2017, 08:24 PM   #107
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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I think that's just because the Doc won't be in Ragnarok much. Probably just the earth based scenes, of which there are supposedly very few. Maybe a glorified cameo.
I think it's more of a Thor + Hulk + Loki + Cate Blanchett vs Batman + Superman + WW + "everyone else". With the behind the scenes factrors of Waititi vs Snyder.

I'm 99.99% sure Waititi turns in the better film.
I'm also pretty sure JL will gross more than Ragnarok domestically. But worldwide I think it'll be pretty close. Both falling in the low-mid $800's.


Also, I don't think WW will play much role in JL's success. Even if WW is great JL still has to contend with Snyder.
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:31 PM   #108
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

I wonder how much momentum Thor Ragnarok will carry moving forward.

After that amazing trailer... I don't know how Waititi can Top himself.

But I'm leaning towards Thor. JLA can pull it off though... I wouldn't count them out just yet.

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Old 05-12-2017, 09:43 PM   #109
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

I feel like people are vastly overestimating Thor: Ragnarok based on the assine assumption that YouTube views correlates to a huge box office or a large turnout and that adding Hulk will make a huge difference.

When you look at the history of box office numbers between the characters in question, no contest DC wins. None of the Thor or Hulk films have outgrossed any of the DCEU films. When you factor in inflation MOS (lowest grossing DCEU film) beats Dr Strange (highest grossing between the 3 characters) as well. That's why i don't understand the logic of those who voted for Thor. Maybe they're a part of that fanbase that despises the DCEU and is secretly hoping for its demise?...

Anyway we're talking about a company who managed to get a movie that was ripped apart by critics to nearly 750 million without China.... Need I say more? Justice League will win this showdown!

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Old 05-12-2017, 09:59 PM   #110
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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Originally Posted by Juan1193 View Post
I feel like people are vastly overestimating Thor: Ragnarok based on the assine assumption that YouTube views correlates to a huge box office or a large turnout and that adding Hulk will make a huge difference.

When you look at the history of box office numbers between the characters in question, no contest DC wins. None of the Thor or Hulk films have outgrossed any of the DCEU films. When you factor in inflation MOS (lowest grossing DCEU film) beats Dr Strange (highest grossing between the 3 characters) as well. That's why i don't understand the logic of those who voted for Thor. Maybe they're a part of that fanbase that despises the DCEU and is secretly hoping for its demise?...

Anyway we're talking about a company who managed to get a movie that was ripped apart by critics to nearly 750 million without China.... Need I say more? Justice League will win this showdown!
Factoring in inflation. LOL

You're in denial if you think a movie with the third most views all time for a trailer won't get a bump at the Box Office. People had absolutely no reason heading into it to go bonkers given how poor T:TDW was. Yet the combination of the Marvel machine and Taika appear to be a venerable combination.

If anything they're set for an extremely strong opening weekend based on the hype alone if the marketing continues to capture the magic. Audiences will get to see just how much these two heavy hitters get to directly interact. Also keep in mind that the Hulk has NEVER been featured as prominently as he will in this. They're clearly using it to evolve the character (as much as I was originally against it).

To drag TIH (which I love btw) into this conversation is pointless. The MCU was a young film studio and with no cache built. That's not the case here basically 10 years later.

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Old 05-12-2017, 11:18 PM   #111
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

You're one of the most biased anti DCEU posters this board but I'll reply.

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Factoring in inflation. LOL
There's over a 3 year gap between MOS and Dr Strange that's why I adjusted for inflation. If you don't adjust then there's only a 9 million difference between the two films. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by JtheDreamer View Post
You're in denial if you think a movie with the third most views all time for a trailer won't get a bump at the Box Office. People had absolutely no reason heading into it to go bonkers given how poor T:TDW was. Yet the combination of the Marvel machine and Taika appear to be a venerable combination.
I'm in denial? I merely stated a fact. Trailer views do not correlate what so ever with box office numbers. If they did then we'd be living in a world where 50 Shades made more than Star Wars and Suicide Squad wouldn't have opened as big as it did.

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If anything they're set for an extremely strong opening weekend based on the hype alone if the marketing continues to capture the magic. Audiences will get to see just how much these two heavy hitters get to directly interact. Also keep in mind that the Hulk has NEVER been featured as prominently as he will in this. They're clearly using it to evolve the character (as much as I was originally against it).
I never said they weren't going to have a big or decent sized opening! I merely questioned the logic of those who believe it'll do bigger business than Justice League. Going off the past of both franchises that likely won't happen.

Also The Hulk has has 2 movies all to himself, one of which was set in the MCU, and neither has set the box office world on fire. He also had big roles in both Avengers movies yet not much hype was generated for another solo/team outing from it.

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Originally Posted by JtheDreamer View Post
To drag TIH (which I love btw) into this conversation is pointless. The MCU was a young film studio and with no cache built. That's not the case here basically 10 years later.
The Hulk is still an iconic character but I do see your point (kind of). In my view the real showdown is between Justice League and Guardians 2 not Thor, Spider-Man or Wonder Woman.

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Old 05-13-2017, 12:30 AM   #112
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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Originally Posted by Juan1193 View Post
I feel like people are vastly overestimating Thor: Ragnarok based on the assine assumption that YouTube views correlates to a huge box office or a large turnout and that adding Hulk will make a huge difference.

When you look at the history of box office numbers between the characters in question, no contest DC wins. None of the Thor or Hulk films have outgrossed any of the DCEU films. When you factor in inflation MOS (lowest grossing DCEU film) beats Dr Strange (highest grossing between the 3 characters) as well. That's why i don't understand the logic of those who voted for Thor. Maybe they're a part of that fanbase that despises the DCEU and is secretly hoping for its demise?...

Anyway we're talking about a company who managed to get a movie that was ripped apart by critics to nearly 750 million without China.... Need I say more? Justice League will win this showdown!
Although I agree, I tend to stay away from posting things like this as usually the #1 response is either "Snyder!!1!1! sucks!!" or "Yeah but its Batman and Superman" instead of actually looking at market size and from an analytical perspective (which I come from), the only thing that will hold JL back is Star Wars Episode 8.

Even if Thor gets an 80+ RT score, JL will still do better than it, the expectations for JL are much higher and therefore will be criticized much higher, much like how the transformer movies gross much more than say "lego batman" despite lego batman having a great RT score...it really doesn't mean much.

Now, here's where the next part kind of comes in interesting, and I believe we are hitting towards, with the upward spiraling of ticket prices, we are starting to see the ceiling too how much a movie can currently make. It's part of the reason we are seeing more and more movies hit the "billion" club, but never seeing the same kind of growth in the sector like we have in previous years (hitting a billion was a truly unique and mind blowing achievement.)

Where as now, if an Avengers movie / Batman movie doesn't hit a billion, it's a "financial let down".

Hell, even Iron man 3 hit that billion dollar mark despite the back lash it got.

Could both these movies potentially hit that market cap? Yes totally, that's probably the main advantage Thor actually has. Is that a bad thing?

Yes and no, one of two things happen in these scenarios, one they find ways of getting more money out of us the consumer, or they can start figuring out what the largest budgets they can do for films going forward, and make the best bang for the buck movies.

I also think the positive side of this is, we will probably go back to rating movies based on individual ticket sales opposed too the revenue they are making, which I personally think is much more important in general.

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Old 05-13-2017, 12:43 AM   #113
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan1193 View Post
I feel like people are vastly overestimating Thor: Ragnarok based on the assine assumption that YouTube views correlates to a huge box office or a large turnout and that adding Hulk will make a huge difference.

When you look at the history of box office numbers between the characters in question, no contest DC wins. None of the Thor or Hulk films have outgrossed any of the DCEU films. When you factor in inflation MOS (lowest grossing DCEU film) beats Dr Strange (highest grossing between the 3 characters) as well. That's why i don't understand the logic of those who voted for Thor. Maybe they're a part of that fanbase that despises the DCEU and is secretly hoping for its demise?...

Anyway we're talking about a company who managed to get a movie that was ripped apart by critics to nearly 750 million without China.... Need I say more? Justice League will win this showdown!
The marketing for BvS and Suicide Squad was great. We will see with Wonder Woman, but the marketing has been concerning. And the marketing has to be much, much better for Justice League. I cannot emphasize enough what BvS's drops mean for word of mouth.

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Old 05-13-2017, 12:54 AM   #114
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

Don't underestimate the power of the Hulk.
Ragnarok will probably blow away previous Thor movies at the BO, but I'm fully expecting JL to flirt with $1 billion even though history points to Ragnarok being the better reviewed movie.

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Old 05-13-2017, 01:15 AM   #115
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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Originally Posted by JtheDreamer View Post
You're in denial if you think a movie with the third most views all time for a trailer won't get a bump at the Box Office. People had absolutely no reason heading into it to go bonkers given how poor T:TDW was. Yet the combination of the Marvel machine and Taika appear to be a venerable combination.
Right? The whole 'the record breaking trailer views don't mean anything' argument is stupid in the first place (how does that not indicate that the level of hype for Ragnarok is already really strong?) but it's not even just the view count alone that is significant here, it's the overwhelmingly postive reaction to the trailer that really counts if you ask me. It was absolutely huge on social media, Ragnarok was trending worldwide on twitter, facebook and youtube for over 24 hours after that trailer hit, when you consider that TDW is generally considered as being the weakest entry in the MCU (or bottom tier at least), that's a pretty incredible feat. The high quality of the trailer has people really excited because it looks like we're finally getting a really awesome big, epic, cosmic based Thor movie, a movie that some think the character has always deserved.

The Justice League trailers, by comparison, haven't managed to get anywhere close to that level of overwhelmingly positive reaction.

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To drag TIH (which I love btw) into this conversation is pointless. The MCU was a young film studio and with no cache built. That's not the case here basically 10 years later.
I'd go slightly further than that and say that Marvel Studios are in a much stronger position now, brand wise, than they were even as relatively recently as 2013 when TDW was released. Phase 3, so far, is off to an incredibly strong start, both critically and box office wise. This is the studio that managed to get two movies based around virtually unknown comic properties (Guardians of the Galaxy and Doctor Strange) to gross nearly $780 million and $650 million WW respectively. And some people still doubt the power of that Marvel Studios branding?

And before anyone throws Suicide Squad and it's strong box office back at me, I think the GA were willing to give that movie a chance because the marketing campaign was huge, the trailers were actually good and the movie looked enough of a departure from the Snyder DCEU movies that people didn't pre-judge it by the failure of BvS. Well, we all know how that turned out. I'm sorry, but I just don't see the audience goodwill being there anymore, the DCEU has struck out three times in a row now and I don't think the GA are nearly as dumb as some posters think they are. JL will make good money, there's no doubt about that, but I don't think it'll get anywhere close to even the total gross of BvS (which itself fell far short of expectations) unless there has been a dramatic upswing in quality. And call me cynical, but I'm not seeing it.

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You're one of the most biased anti DCEU posters this board but I'll reply.
By 'biased anti DCEU poster', do you mean a poster that just happens to have a different opinion to you about the quality of the DCEU films so far? Why is JTheDreamer's input in this thread any less valid just because his tastes don't align with yours?

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I never said they weren't going to have a big or decent sized opening! I merely questioned the logic of those who believe it'll do bigger business than Justice League. Going off the past of both franchises that likely won't happen.
You seem to be under the impression that Marvel Studios are treating Ragnarok like it's just another run of the mill Thor sequel. As someone who has followed the production of Ragnarok closely for way over a year, I can tell you that is not accurate in the slightest. Make no mistake, Marvel intend Ragnarok to be an event movie. Kevin Feige has described it as being the 'Winter Soldier' of Phase 3, not tonally but in it's importance to the MCU overall. It's the movie that is leading directly into Avengers: Infinity War, they're not messing about. They've hired top tier actors and one of the most critically acclaimed cult directors out there. They've got the Hulk and Doctor Strange and it's going full scale GotG style cosmic. This is going to be Thor like we've never seen him before, that will become clear once the marketing for Ragnarok kicks into full gear. To judge it by the first two Thor films and TIH is naive, this movie is aiming to be on a whole other level.

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Old 05-13-2017, 01:42 AM   #116
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

Justice League should be bigger. If it's not then something has gone very wrong and it'll be a huge embarrassment.

Thor has nothing to lose though. And obviously Marvel has tons of goodwill. They are basically Pixar right now. I think the bright, wacky visual style and tone will appeal to more people than JL's seemingly perpetual night time.

I think it depends on Thor's next trailer. Remember, Thor has had a more modest marketing campaign compared to JL so far. And audiences are actually quite good at sniffing out desperation.

And of course it depends on word of mouth too. Right now there is more chance Thor gets praised than JL.

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Old 05-13-2017, 06:35 AM   #117
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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Originally Posted by Juan1193 View Post
I feel like people are vastly overestimating Thor: Ragnarok based on the assine assumption that YouTube views correlates to a huge box office or a large turnout and that adding Hulk will make a huge difference.

When you look at the history of box office numbers between the characters in question, no contest DC wins. None of the Thor or Hulk films have outgrossed any of the DCEU films. When you factor in inflation MOS (lowest grossing DCEU film) beats Dr Strange (highest grossing between the 3 characters) as well. That's why i don't understand the logic of those who voted for Thor. Maybe they're a part of that fanbase that despises the DCEU and is secretly hoping for its demise?...

Anyway we're talking about a company who managed to get a movie that was ripped apart by critics to nearly 750 million without China.... Need I say more? Justice League will win this showdown!
You mean a movie that had Batman in half their trailers, Joker (with 10 minutes of screentime) in EVERY SINGLE MARKETING MATERIAL and also Harley Quinn, one of DC's most popular characters? You are telling me that a movie with 3 DC A-listers grossed a lot of money??? WHAT A M.NIGHT SHAYMALAN TWIST!!!!!!

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Old 05-13-2017, 07:51 AM   #118
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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I'm guessing that you aren't aware of the success of the Teen Titans cartoon. It got several award nominations and actually lasted longer than Justice League. It was HUGE in the early 2000s, which is why it spawned the 2nd comedic series. Cyborg has also been in 17 different animated DC films. Some of us old codgers also remember him from Super Friends. That's a huge amount of non-print exposure for a character whom "people couldn't care less about."
Yea but still... who cares? The people that watched or even know about Teen Titans make up about 0.002% of the cinema going public.

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Old 05-13-2017, 08:30 AM   #119
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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I'm curious what kind of an impact Hulk's presence will actually make on the box office.
Smashing.

On a serious note, MCU needs more Ruffalo's BB. Only two films out of 15. The third one is coming. Crime.

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Old 05-13-2017, 08:37 AM   #120
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

I agree. Ruffalo is such a good actor and his Banner is great. They haven't fulfilled his potential yet.

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Old 05-13-2017, 09:22 AM   #121
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

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I also think the positive side of this is, we will probably go back to rating movies based on individual ticket sales opposed too the revenue they are making, which I personally think is much more important in general.
Revenue is important.

There are certain movies that are such large scale that shouldn't be done on smaller budgets. Movies like JL and Avengers fit that mold and should score over a $1B to make those investments worth it. Otherwise, what's the point in continuing on with those movies. Why not do lower budget movies with more revenue instead of $250M+ movies that make less profit?

I'm more concerned that JL2 has been pushed back to an undermined date and other movies have been "fast tracked" ahead of it.

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Old 05-13-2017, 09:33 AM   #122
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan1193 View Post
I feel like people are vastly overestimating Thor: Ragnarok based on the assine assumption that YouTube views correlates to a huge box office or a large turnout and that adding Hulk will make a huge difference.

When you look at the history of box office numbers between the characters in question, no contest DC wins. None of the Thor or Hulk films have outgrossed any of the DCEU films. When you factor in inflation MOS (lowest grossing DCEU film) beats Dr Strange (highest grossing between the 3 characters) as well. That's why i don't understand the logic of those who voted for Thor. Maybe they're a part of that fanbase that despises the DCEU and is secretly hoping for its demise?...

Anyway we're talking about a company who managed to get a movie that was ripped apart by critics to nearly 750 million without China.... Need I say more? Justice League will win this showdown!
The logic, as I see it, is BvS caused so much damage that a large enough chunk of the audience will hold off on JL to see what word of mouth is. Given it's still a Snyder film, and it's coming out less than 2 years after BvS, WoM proabably won't be significantly better than BvS, and therefore JL could very likely come in under BvS's total (that being $873m). Wonder Woman could be a swaying factor, but I think only for the opening weekend, it'll still live or die on its own quality. The GA doesn't seem to be as forgiving of bad superhero movies as they are of the likes of Transformers.

For Thor, although you could argue TDW's tepid reception could also spell a Box Office stalling, consider that film still jumped up about $200m from the first film ($449m up to $644m);
-entirely new director with a great track record
-addition of Hulk, Blanchett, Golblum, Strange
--Almost entirely set away from earth, and the little that is on earth looks to have Strange, Hela & Loki rather than Jane, Darcy and Selvig.
-New tonal direction
-4 year gap from TDW, lets the memory of it fade a bit.
-and that trailer can't be discounted and said to be meaningless. It has absolutely gotten a hell of a lot of people on board the Ragnarok train where they had ppreviously been "meh" about another Thor film.

So the question is, can Thor make another $200m jump from TDW like TDW did from Thor1? If Waititi delivers, then yes, I think that's possible. Which could land it in the same range as JL - $800m-$850m.


Oh, and TDW actually did outgross MoS overseas ($437m to $377m).

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Old 05-13-2017, 10:18 AM   #123
HammerDown
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

In normal conditions Justice League would always do more money than Thor Ragnarok. Having said that, these aren't "normal" conditions... That's why i choose Thor Ragnarok for the "victor" even though it is the underdog for this race.

The success of the Teaser Trailer for Thor Ragnarok is a very good sign. It wouldn't be wise to not acknowledge that. It has a overwhelming positive response from the general audience. People are hyped and ready for a new Thor movie. And of course, adding the Hulk to the mix will make a big difference too... there's no way around that.

This movie is not only a "Thor movie". Thor - The Dark World grossed 644M WW. And it wasn't even particularly well received by critics. Thor Ragnarok is a completely different beast all together. Add to those results the presence of Hulk, Doctor Strange, a jaw dropping villain portrayed by Cate Blanchett... plus a complete different vibe from the up and coming Taika Waititi which has brought a more fun, striking, crazy and action packed adventure feel to the franchise.

The thing with JL it is that it comes with a lot of baggage. BvS made a lot of money (less than expected) because people really wanted to see the clash of titans for the very first time despise the critical reception. Now the general audience has a better feel for what they saw. They already now what they are gonna get, not much has changed... Snyder sprinkled some jokes but everything still remains pretty much the same and i doubt that people will be as forgiving as before.

I doubt that Justice League will make much more money than BvS. On the other hand i am sure Thor Ragnarok will earn much more than T:TDW at the box office. Maybe i am reaching... maybe not. I hope TR does very well... it doesn't have anything to loose while JL in normal conditions should always do more.

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Old 05-13-2017, 10:32 AM   #124
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

I hit a lot of the same points as Moridin by accident.


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Old 05-13-2017, 12:24 PM   #125
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Default Re: Box Office Battle -- Thor Ragnarok vs. Justice League

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erzengel View Post
Revenue is important.

There are certain movies that are such large scale that shouldn't be done on smaller budgets. Movies like JL and Avengers fit that mold and should score over a $1B to make those investments worth it. Otherwise, what's the point in continuing on with those movies. Why not do lower budget movies with more revenue instead of $250M+ movies that make less profit?

I'm more concerned that JL2 has been pushed back to an undermined date and other movies have been "fast tracked" ahead of it.
I'm pretty certain that if a movie NEEDS to make a billion to be profitable, then the reported budget is a lie. But then again, a lot of reported budgets are lies.

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