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Old 05-10-2015, 09:17 AM   #101
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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He doesn't revert back as soon as he's calm. The ending of the movie shows that.

And you're going on quite a lot as if your opinion is "right". There's no "let's face it", it's just your opinion that you're repeating over and over.
So you thought it was a good way to end the fight? Let's just agree to disagree then.

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Old 05-10-2015, 09:29 AM   #102
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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So you thought it was a good way to end the fight? Let's just agree to disagree then.
I was OK with it, yes. There are options I would have preferred but that goes for tons of things in movies where I go in with preexisting opinions, biases and ideas due to knowing source material.

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Old 05-10-2015, 09:33 AM   #103
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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I was OK with it, yes. There are options I would have preferred but that goes for tons of things in movies where I go in with preexisting opinions, biases and ideas due to knowing source material.
Well, as a Hulk fan it felt like a slap in the face to me. They don't even need him on the team anymore with HB there or even IM when no one on the team can beat him.

For me it makes Abom, Thor and even Loki look mightily weak by comparison hen they couldn't knock him out in previous encounters.

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Old 05-10-2015, 11:28 AM   #104
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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Well, as a Hulk fan it felt like a slap in the face to me. They don't even need him on the team anymore with HB there or even IM when no one on the team can beat him.

For me it makes Abom, Thor and even Loki look mightily weak by comparison hen they couldn't knock him out in previous encounters.
I can understand that, but don't agree with that assessment of Hulk not being needed. First of all being unbeatable isn't the requirement of being in the Avengers. Otherwise BW and HE would never have been there. The HB was also specifically designed to fight Hulk with assistance from Banner himself.

As for being able to beat IM, we haven't seen that no one can. His fight with Thor had him at 475% capacity and he could not make a mark on Thor and the Asgardian could clearly crush his armor with his hands. The fight was stopped before someone was beaten, although IM was just swatted away when Thor turned his attention to Cap. There's others on the team that we haven't seen fight him yet either. Even Hulk might fight differently without being "mind controlled". IM will of course be featured well though since he's the one that people are the most interested in seeing.

As for knocking out Hulk Thor was close to it even right off the bad when he picked up Mjolnir, without having to wear him down first, and their fight was also interrupted before any real conclusion. Loki didn't even try and he's not one to knock Hulk out but rather fool the monster or turn him to his own purpose. Abomination pretty much beat Hulk until something came to make his anger overcome his foe in the end. I don't think any but Loki looked weak, although some Hulk fans seem to disagree and think that he was by far the most powerful in TA.

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Old 05-10-2015, 11:42 AM   #105
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

I actually think ending the Hulkbuster fight with the sucker punch was a pretty good move. The sudden intrusion of the fist into the frame really helps sell the notion that in that moment, post building collapse, Hulk was completely fixated on the civilians and the fear he was responsible for. He was so concerned about that, thoughts of the fight had left his mind. Stark finishing the fight by taking advantage of that reflection helps sell what I think is an important character beat.

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Old 05-10-2015, 01:04 PM   #106
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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I can understand that, but don't agree with that assessment of Hulk not being needed. First of all being unbeatable isn't the requirement of being in the Avengers. Otherwise BW and HE would never have been there. The HB was also specifically designed to fight Hulk with assistance from Banner himself.
I wouldn't for one minute want Hulk being unbeatable. In fact you have heard my complaints about making Ultron a threat and I have stated having him taking down, Thor or Hulk 1 vs 1 would have marked him out as a threat. Also, if Hulk does anything but get get a good beating from Thanos I will be complaining just as much.

Also, Hulk's role on the team is the muscle, if HB can not only last in a fight with Hulk and then also knock him out at the end of it, I don't see a point in Hulk being in the team as muscle when HB can just be called in instead. Hope this makes my point a bit clearer.

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As for being able to beat IM, we haven't seen that no one can. His fight with Thor had him at 475% capacity and he could not make a mark on Thor and the Asgardian could clearly crush his armor with his hands. The fight was stopped before someone was beaten, although IM was just swatted away when Thor turned his attention to Cap. There's others on the team that we haven't seen fight him yet either. Even Hulk might fight differently without being "mind controlled". IM will of course be featured well though since he's the one that people are the most interested in seeing.
But again he put up a much better showing against Thor than he should have. I didn't find the conclusion of that fight to bad though as Thor has it in his head to hold back, Hulk doesn't,me specially when under a Hex. Even so, Thor should have still beat IM with some ease, more than what was shown anyway. As I have said though the IM love in didn't bother me too much until AOU.

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As for knocking out Hulk Thor was close to it even right off the bad when he picked up Mjolnir, without having to wear him down first, and their fight was also interrupted before any real conclusion. Loki didn't even try and he's not one to knock Hulk out but rather fool the monster or turn him to his own purpose. Abomination pretty much beat Hulk until something came to make his anger overcome his foe in the end. I don't think any but Loki looked weak, although some Hulk fans seem to disagree and think that he was by far the most powerful in TA.
But that's the thing, it was near the start of the fight and a full on blow from a God with a powerfully mystical hammer couldn't knock out Hulk, but HB can? It just undermines the other characters who are on the team for muscle for me. Also look at all the blows Hulk took in the Abom fight and he was never knocked out. He was beat to a pulp in that fight yet never once looked like being knocked out and his anger got him through it. He also took a lot of punishment from the Chitauri but was never once knocked out. Agreed on Loki.

It's a real shame as I was really excited to see the Hulkbuster finally, and to see it taking on Hulk, and I loved the fight and knew how it ended before hand but wanted to see how it was done in the movie before I commented on it as in context it may have worked. But it didn't, it just annoyed at the time and has continued to since. I am an IM fan as well, read plenty of his comics and many of his fights with Hulk, even the one we're he beat Hulk but at great cost because he nearly died after it due to his armour shutting down. So it's not like I have a huge bias toward one character, I like both. But HB should not be able to knock Hulk out and it was a poor, poor way to end the fight.

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Old 05-10-2015, 01:48 PM   #107
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:12 PM   #108
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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Which was?
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Hulk jumping into Ultron's plane and Ultron going "Oh C'mon" to be thrown hard from a great height.

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Old 05-10-2015, 03:12 PM   #109
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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Well, as a Hulk fan it felt like a slap in the face to me. They don't even need him on the team anymore with HB there or even IM when no one on the team can beat him.
.
The problem with the HB scene was its beginning and end. Banner didn't need to receive a vision from SW, she could have just been shown sending him out of his mind crazy with anger. Then we should have seen him causing more damage in Johannesberg - establish without a doubt the danger Hulk poses and why he terrifies Banner. The ending was flawed as well. The look on Hulks face was so moving for a few seconds, then he's angry again and knocked out. A better ending was needed to show Hulk has a personality that was affected by his actions.

The insulting part was the implication by Stark that Widow's lullaby could have calmed Hulk down at this time. Is he a genuine threat or isn't he? I question whether Betty could have calmed him down at this time (the love of his life) and the suggestion Widow (who he had just been flirting with) could was a complete slap in the face for the character and fans.

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Old 05-10-2015, 04:19 PM   #110
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

Just saw it for the second time. 9.5/10 for me. Would have liked to seen the Hulk actually talk, see more of when Thor was keeping Ultron distracted, but overall excellent.

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Old 05-10-2015, 04:20 PM   #111
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

Banner helped Stark design the Hulkbuster, that's all you need to know why Tony came out on top. The sucker punch was an allusion to the first film, and a funny one.

If you want to be upset at something, be upset with why Hulk and Thor didn't have a better fight in the first film. I'd rather would have them skip the Iron Man Thor fight in the first film for more Hulk vs. Thor.

Also there have been multiple times in the comics where Hulk was raging and Rick Jones or Betty came into calm him down.

The only bad part the film missed out on was Maria Hill bringing up about charges being brought against Banner, and never following up on it. Clearly that's the motivation for leaving, but I hope it's addressed later on.

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Old 05-10-2015, 04:49 PM   #112
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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The problem with the HB scene was its beginning and end. Banner didn't need to receive a vision from SW, she could have just been shown sending him out of his mind crazy with anger. Then we should have seen him causing more damage in Johannesberg - establish without a doubt the danger Hulk poses and why he terrifies Banner. The ending was flawed as well. The look on Hulks face was so moving for a few seconds, then he's angry again and knocked out. A better ending was needed to show Hulk has a personality that was affected by his actions.

The insulting part was the implication by Stark that Widow's lullaby could have calmed Hulk down at this time. Is he a genuine threat or isn't he? I question whether Betty could have calmed him down at this time (the love of his life) and the suggestion Widow (who he had just been flirting with) could was a complete slap in the face for the character and fans.
Totally agreed, the Widow thing was a bit silly as only either Betty or Rick Jones could calm him down. Plus, Hulk calmed down at the end of the first movie and in TIH all on his own without anyone there. Why couldn't he have done that at the end of the HB fight? But no, gotta show Stark being a god and not getting beaten.

And yeah, at the end of the fight, showing Hulk just turning back into Banner, who he hates, would have shown the Hulk had a personality and was ashamed by what he had done. Would have also explained the Hulk exiling himself at the end much better.

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Old 05-10-2015, 04:56 PM   #113
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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The problem with the HB scene was its beginning and end. Banner didn't need to receive a vision from SW, she could have just been shown sending him out of his mind crazy with anger. Then we should have seen him causing more damage in Johannesberg - establish without a doubt the danger Hulk poses and why he terrifies Banner. The ending was flawed as well. The look on Hulks face was so moving for a few seconds, then he's angry again and knocked out. A better ending was needed to show Hulk has a personality that was affected by his actions.

The insulting part was the implication by Stark that Widow's lullaby could have calmed Hulk down at this time. Is he a genuine threat or isn't he? I question whether Betty could have calmed him down at this time (the love of his life) and the suggestion Widow (who he had just been flirting with) could was a complete slap in the face for the character and fans.
The end of the fight did show that. You already detailed it above. We see Hulk begin to wake from his rage and we see in his face that he's concerned about what he's done. It's purely because Hulk feels these things that the Hulkbuster has the opportunity to sucker punch him. That moment of realisation for Hulk is what allows the fight to end.

I also think you're overreacting rather a lot with regards to the lullaby. Iron Man only glimpsed through second hand sources how the Hulk was acting and given the lullaby was the Avengers' go to tactic for Hulk calming, it would be more insulting to the audience to not have Stark suggest it, given it was established as effective earlier in the film.

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Old 05-10-2015, 05:38 PM   #114
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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Totally agreed, the Widow thing was a bit silly as only either Betty or Rick Jones could calm him down. Plus, Hulk calmed down at the end of the first movie and in TIH all on his own without anyone there. Why couldn't he have done that at the end of the HB fight? But no, gotta show Stark being a god and not getting beaten.

And yeah, at the end of the fight, showing Hulk just turning back into Banner, who he hates, would have shown the Hulk had a personality and was ashamed by what he had done. Would have also explained the Hulk exiling himself at the end much better.
Suffice to say,I agree. I don't know if it was to glorify Stark as much as they just had a lazy way to finish it.

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Old 05-10-2015, 08:04 PM   #115
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Well I also said in my review it will sound like I disliked the movie but I actually enjoyed it, there was just a lot that disappointed me and that's the stuff that stuck with me. And as I said in the review also, everything I liked had a 'but' to it and that in itself was disappointing.

Loved the opening action sequence, unfortunately the rest of the action in the movie didn't live up to it. SW and Hawkeye were great, Thor was good but I would have preferred him going toe to toe with Ultron at the end. Loved the cameos in the party especially WM and Falcon. Loved WM getting In on the action. Loved everything with the Vision, they pretty much got him perfect, one of my favourite scenes was Ultron's and his at the end. Loved him saving Wanda as well. Loved all of the visions SW gave the team as well. I actually liked QS as well, but his death felt forced, and Hawkeye joking next to his body minutes after he died really annoyed me as well. This is a thing in all MCU movies and it pisses me off and is why their death scenes lack impact.

I think my biggest problem with the movie is the little things I loved, but the big things disappointed me a lot.
Hawkeye was joking minutes after Quicksilver's death to keep his OWN spirits up. The guy was severely wounded in the same spot he was severely wounded days ago. He was also emotional after Quicksilver's death (you could see it on his face after he realized what happened). All he said was "It's been a long day." And he's completely done as he lays down.

Hawkeye CLEARLY was upset by Quicksilver's death and even honoured him by naming Nathaniel Barton after him (middle name was Pietro).

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Old 05-10-2015, 08:30 PM   #116
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Hawkeye was joking minutes after Quicksilver's death to keep his OWN spirits up. The guy was severely wounded in the same spot he was severely wounded days ago. He was also emotional after Quicksilver's death (you could see it on his face after he realized what happened). All he said was "It's been a long day." And he's completely done as he lays down.

Hawkeye CLEARLY was upset by Quicksilver's death and even honoured him by naming Nathaniel Barton after him (middle name was Pietro).
Yeah. That's immediately what I thought, too; Hawkeye was clearly disturbed by Quicksilver's sacrifice (perhaps especially since he'd earlier joked about shooting the guy in the back, I don't know), and it affected him. I didn't notice Nathaniel's middle name, though...that's awesome!

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Old 05-10-2015, 08:47 PM   #117
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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Hawkeye was joking minutes after Quicksilver's death to keep his OWN spirits up. The guy was severely wounded in the same spot he was severely wounded days ago. He was also emotional after Quicksilver's death (you could see it on his face after he realized what happened). All he said was "It's been a long day." And he's completely done as he lays down.

Hawkeye CLEARLY was upset by Quicksilver's death and even honoured him by naming Nathaniel Barton after him (middle name was Pietro).
That isnt the only time an awkwardly placed joke has ruined an intense moment though. In IM3 immediately after Tony legitimately believes Pepper to be dead after telling her he's got her, he is all jokey with Aldrich. Which was weird. I don't think if you lost the love of your life you'd be cracking jokes right after. Unfortunately it happened here in AoU with Hawkeye laying next to Pietro, although i'm sure it wasn't meant to be jokey, but why put that line there at all? It's a death MCU, deal with it. Imo it took away from SW's emotional reaction to it just a bit.

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Old 05-10-2015, 09:24 PM   #118
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Just saw the movie after avoiding all spoilers and forum posts relating to it.

It felt like there was something off (for lack of a better word) with this movie.

It was really disjointed where instead of scenes flowing naturally, everything was really abrupt and jarring. There were also major problems with characterization and dialog. I really really hate to be expressing these things about a movie I've been so pumped for, for so long.

I read where Whedon said we were getting a closer, more character driven, smaller movie, but there was SOOOO MUCH STUFF going on. I don't think he and I share the same definition of those words.

Didn't he also say that we would explore that the Hulk is afraid of Banner as much as Banner is afraid of the Hulk? That sounds awesome. Where was that? All I remember is the Hulk becoming angry at the mention of Banner's name.

I'm tired so I'll elaborate more later, maybe in the other thread, but there were definitely things to like as well, it's just that I walked out confused as to who watched the final edit of this and said, "Yeah that's good, we'll go with that".

Venting over for now.

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Old 05-11-2015, 05:27 AM   #119
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Totally agreed, the Widow thing was a bit silly as only either Betty or Rick Jones could calm him down. Plus, Hulk calmed down at the end of the first movie and in TIH all on his own without anyone there. Why couldn't he have done that at the end of the HB fight? But no, gotta show Stark being a god and not getting beaten.

And yeah, at the end of the fight, showing Hulk just turning back into Banner, who he hates, would have shown the Hulk had a personality and was ashamed by what he had done. Would have also explained the Hulk exiling himself at the end much better.
Hulk willingly turning back into Banner would have showed the shame he felt when he realised what he had done (even better if he could have said a few words beforehand). Plus we would have potentially got a nice interaction between Banner and Stark as they looked around and saw the damage they had both done. There were better options available.

The lullaby was silly as Rick and Betty could do this because of how much they meant to Banner. Their friendship/relationship had lasted years, had real meaning and they were important to him. To imply that someone who has been flirting with him for a short period of time has the same significance is insulting to the characters. Banner was fine without the lullaby in Avengers and it was only introduced to allow Whedon to introduce his doomed beauty and the beast romance.

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Old 05-11-2015, 06:11 AM   #120
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Banner helped Stark design the Hulkbuster, that's all you need to know why Tony came out on top. The sucker punch was an allusion to the first film, and a funny one.

If you want to be upset at something, be upset with why Hulk and Thor didn't have a better fight in the first film. I'd rather would have them skip the Iron Man Thor fight in the first film for more Hulk vs. Thor.

Also there have been multiple times in the comics where Hulk was raging and Rick Jones or Betty came into calm him down.

The only bad part the film missed out on was Maria Hill bringing up about charges being brought against Banner, and never following up on it. Clearly that's the motivation for leaving, but I hope it's addressed later on.
Aye, that's a very good point.

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Old 05-11-2015, 07:36 AM   #121
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Definitely, I was liking the fight up until then. I did enjoy the movie but the negatives just seem to pop out more than the positives for me. It's happened with a few MCU movies were I have really enjoyed them while watching them, but then I think about it afterwards and the flaws just stick out hugely



A good Ultron vs Hulk fight would have made up for the awful ending we got to the HB fight.
I wish Hulk did fight Ultron. We haven't had a good one-on-one Hulk fight with a villain since TIH, and that wasn't even Ruffalo Hulk. Ever since then he's been fighting heroes, against whom you can't completely root against. And when he faced Loki, that was a one-sided smackdown.

I would also have liked to have seen Hulk saving people, especially to make up for all the destruction he caused in South Africa (or supposedly Wakanda). Would've been nice to see him rescue inhabitants of Sokovia. And I would like to see the return of the thunderclap, like he used in TIH when he put out that fire. He could've used that against Ultron drones.

Did we even see much jumping from his this time round like in Avengers against the Chitauri? And I would like to see Hulk giving a huge titanic hurl of an object against a flying enemy. He was severely underutilised, especially since we don't even get to see solo films of him. He should be used and showcased even more in the Avengers films, doing all the things we've seen in TIH (or even Ang Lee's Hulk with the throwing of that tank), but with the Avengers Hulk CGI effects.

As such, we've had Hulks with poorer CGI doing mostly more impressive feats than a superior CGI Hulk who doesn't seem to do all that much.

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Old 05-11-2015, 07:50 AM   #122
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I wish Hulk did fight Ultron. We haven't had a good one-on-one Hulk fight with a villain since TIH, and that wasn't even Ruffalo Hulk. Ever since then he's been fighting heroes, against whom you can't completely root against. And when he faced Loki, that was a one-sided smackdown.

I would also have liked to have seen Hulk saving people, especially to make up for all the destruction he caused in South Africa (or supposedly Wakanda). Would've been nice to see him rescue inhabitants of Sokovia. And I would like to see the return of the thunderclap, like he used in TIH when he put out that fire. He could've used that against Ultron drones.

Did we even see much jumping from his this time round like in Avengers against the Chitauri? And I would like to see Hulk giving a huge titanic hurl of an object against a flying enemy. He was severely underutilised, especially since we don't even get to see solo films of him. He should be used and showcased even more in the Avengers films, doing all the things we've seen in TIH (or even Ang Lee's Hulk with the throwing of that tank), but with the Avengers Hulk CGI effects.

As such, we've had Hulks with poorer CGI doing mostly more impressive feats than a superior CGI Hulk who doesn't seem to do all that much.
Agree with everything. I pray that Ruffalo demands a better story and portrayal of Banner and Hulk in IW.

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Old 05-11-2015, 09:05 AM   #123
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
Banner helped Stark design the Hulkbuster, that's all you need to know why Tony came out on top. The sucker punch was an allusion to the first film, and a funny one.
The entire Veronica sequence was near perfection.


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Old 05-11-2015, 10:48 AM   #124
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

Although I would have like the HB fight scene to end with Hulk willingly turning back to Banner, I think the sucker punch still works if you take into account that all the other Avengers were severely weakened after being "hexed" by Scarlet Witch. I feel like the Hulk would have suffered these same effects and been very weak at the time Iron Man punched him. However, like I said before, I still would have preferred the voluntary change back to Banner.

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Old 05-11-2015, 12:40 PM   #125
AVEITWITHJAMON
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Default Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron Fan Review Thread (Spoilers) - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Human Torch View Post
Suffice to say,I agree. I don't know if it was to glorify Stark as much as they just had a lazy way to finish it.
Either way it was poor.

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Originally Posted by DCnightwing23 View Post
That isnt the only time an awkwardly placed joke has ruined an intense moment though. In IM3 immediately after Tony legitimately believes Pepper to be dead after telling her he's got her, he is all jokey with Aldrich. Which was weird. I don't think if you lost the love of your life you'd be cracking jokes right after. Unfortunately it happened here in AoU with Hawkeye laying next to Pietro, although i'm sure it wasn't meant to be jokey, but why put that line there at all? It's a death MCU, deal with it. Imo it took away from SW's emotional reaction to it just a bit.
Agreed, Marvel need to stop being afraid of showing people grieving over a lost relative or friend, there is nothing wrong with it, its a part of life. Its more unrealistic when someone doesnt react to a death to which is why I hate it when the MCU movies do this. Thats why the likes of Thor dying in Thor and Cap dying in Cap 1 are some of the most emotional MCU moments, because they arent followed with a joke seconds later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Raven View Post
I wish Hulk did fight Ultron. We haven't had a good one-on-one Hulk fight with a villain since TIH, and that wasn't even Ruffalo Hulk. Ever since then he's been fighting heroes, against whom you can't completely root against. And when he faced Loki, that was a one-sided smackdown.

I would also have liked to have seen Hulk saving people, especially to make up for all the destruction he caused in South Africa (or supposedly Wakanda). Would've been nice to see him rescue inhabitants of Sokovia. And I would like to see the return of the thunderclap, like he used in TIH when he put out that fire. He could've used that against Ultron drones.

Did we even see much jumping from his this time round like in Avengers against the Chitauri? And I would like to see Hulk giving a huge titanic hurl of an object against a flying enemy. He was severely underutilised, especially since we don't even get to see solo films of him. He should be used and showcased even more in the Avengers films, doing all the things we've seen in TIH (or even Ang Lee's Hulk with the throwing of that tank), but with the Avengers Hulk CGI effects.

As such, we've had Hulks with poorer CGI doing mostly more impressive feats than a superior CGI Hulk who doesn't seem to do all that much.
Yep, after a few rewatches of A1 I realised the fight with Thor was a bit lame and the Hulk wasnt in it all that much, so was hoping for more here and a villain that can truly take him on in a fight and in the comics Ultron is certainly that, but all we got a punch and a throw. So disappointing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogdor View Post
Although I would have like the HB fight scene to end with Hulk willingly turning back to Banner, I think the sucker punch still works if you take into account that all the other Avengers were severely weakened after being "hexed" by Scarlet Witch. I feel like the Hulk would have suffered these same effects and been very weak at the time Iron Man punched him. However, like I said before, I still would have preferred the voluntary change back to Banner.
I will say though, this is a very good point and something I hadnt considered before so well done for spotting that. I still hate the ending of the fight but this makes it a little easier to bear .

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