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View Poll Results: Which is superior?
X2 140 44.30%
X-men: First Class 176 55.70%
Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-17-2011, 04:21 PM   #301
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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Originally Posted by psylockolussus View Post
First Class is lacking of a great fight scene. I wouldn't call the fight between Professor X and Magneto a fight scene. X2 had Lady Deathstrike VS Wolverine and Nightcrawler's first scene.
What about the Hellfire Club's attack on the CIA? Or battle in Cuba? Or even Magneto in that Swedish bar?

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Old 06-17-2011, 04:26 PM   #302
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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Or even Magneto in that Swedish bar?
There's a difference between a fight...and a straight up smackdown

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Old 06-17-2011, 05:18 PM   #303
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

X2 has very different action scenes. They tend to be long, deliberate, focused power displays - Nightcrawler at Whitehouse, Wolverine at mansion, Magneto prison escape, Pyro vs cops, Storm vs jets, Deathstryke vs Wolverine. Cyclops vs Jean at the dam didn't last quite long enough for me though.

First Class had action scenes that were more kinetic and rarely focused that much on one person and their powers.

Maybe that's something we can get in the sequel...

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Old 06-17-2011, 06:28 PM   #304
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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What about the Hellfire Club's attack on the CIA? Or battle in Cuba? Or even Magneto in that Swedish bar?
Good point. I'd like to add Magneto's confrontation with HFC at the ship and subsequently him attacking them with the anchor.

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Old 06-18-2011, 04:38 PM   #305
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

Love both, but First Class gets the upper hand for me.

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Old 06-18-2011, 05:19 PM   #306
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

It is very close. X2 had a lot of unforgettable actions sequences. The White House assault is still a fond memory for me and I remember being psyched up about the Mansion invasion.
But despite this, I see X Men 2 as a triumph of style over substance. It had two standout performances, Jackman as Wolverine and Brian Cox as Stryker. Great actors going to town with their roles. But Singer's direction often seems to rely on hokey sentimentalism, such as Nightcrawler praying when Jean died. I can't watch that scene without squirming, it's so awkward and infuriating. Jean's death was foolish anyway, I never cared about her, she was just a way to make Wolverine look better because he used her to piss off Cyclops. Stryker's death, his firm belief that 'someday someone will finish my work' and the loss of the answers Logan was seeking, were the true emotional climax of that movie. Jean's death was superfluos by comparison.

Now, with First Class you had loads of stand-out performances. The action was always used to great effect, not just to cover up poor storytelling. And the story itself was amazing, it's themes were explored with a subtlety Singer was incapable of grasping. Magneto's fall into power-crazed egomania was both tragic and terrifying, you got the sense that he was a legitimate loose cannon who could turn on anyone at any time. With how Magneto was handled, it makes me optimistic to see how this director could handle Wolverine. Maybe we could have an X-Men film in which Logan actually wins a fight or goes into a Berserker Rage, rather than having the pussified version of the character Singer gave us.

Both were great films, but the pure strength of First Class pushes it ahead. The tragic inevitability of Magneto's fall is not lessened by our foreknowledge of what he becomes. Rather, by seeing his better qualities and what he endured as a child, we get a far more comprehensive view of the man. Although one that does not shy away from the monster he truly becomes throughout First Class.

From a terrified child to a Godlike egomaniac in a red cloak. It's a Hell of a story.

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Old 06-18-2011, 09:40 PM   #307
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

X-Men: First Class. But I love spy movies, so maybe I'm biased.

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Old 06-18-2011, 10:20 PM   #308
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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From a terrified child to a Godlike egomaniac in a red cloak. It's a Hell of a story.
You could pretty much use this one line to sell nearly the entirety of X-Men: First Class to someone who wants to know what it is about.

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Old 06-19-2011, 12:20 AM   #309
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

X2 is better. Although FC was a good movie (I just saw it a few hours ago) X2 felt more like an actual X-Men movie. FC had more of an "international espionage movie" feel to it.

X2 also had way better fight scenes. That was one of FC's weaknesses imo.

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Old 06-19-2011, 12:36 AM   #310
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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X2 is better. Although FC was a good movie (I just saw it a few hours ago) X2 felt more like an actual X-Men movie. FC had more of an "international espionage movie" feel to it.

X2 also had way better fight scenes. That was one of FC's weaknesses imo.
That's exactly one of my biggest complaints with it. Too many times that it just didn't feel like an X-Men movie.

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Old 06-19-2011, 02:16 AM   #311
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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That's exactly one of my biggest complaints with it. Too many times that it just didn't feel like an X-Men movie.
Oh lawd....

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Old 06-19-2011, 05:58 AM   #312
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

What's "Oh lawd" about it? I agree 100%. This movie could have very easily been a spy movie.

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Old 06-19-2011, 11:44 AM   #313
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

^ And that's what makes it awesome.

Superhero spy movie. That's a first.

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Old 06-19-2011, 11:55 AM   #314
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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^ And that's what makes it awesome.

Superhero spy movie. That's a first.
But I don't want a superhero spy movie. I want an X-Men movie.

I have the entire James Bond collection. If I want to watch a spy movie, it's not hard for me to put one on. But when I watch an X-Men movie, I want to watch an X-Men movie. Not a James Bond movie.

I've stated it plenty before, when Vaughn allowed the movie to be an X-Men movie, it was incredible, and arguably the best of the series. But there were too many times where he wouldn't let it be an X-Men movie, because he wanted to make a James Bond / British spy film, and it took me right out of the movie. And ultimately, it's that aspect that keeps this movie from cleanly topping X2 or X-Men: The Last Stand in my book.

Sorry, but turning Moira McTaggert into a CIA agent, complete with spinning booths into secret chambers, break away submarine bases for the villain, cheesy mustache twirling (something that Vaughn *****ed about Singer's movies for) villains with plans of global destruction while missiles fly across a map and explode in cheesy mushroom clouds, and split screen newspaper headlines with mushroom clouds going off simultaneously, all that crap was stupid for an X-Men movie. Hell, a lot of that stuff would have been stupid even in a James Bond movie. Ultimately, it's why I hope Vaughn is never allowed near another X-Men movie. His arrogance is astounding, and he's never had respect for the X-Men or the X-Men films from his first involvement with X-Men: The Last Stand. I want him far, far away from X-Men. You want to make gritty British flicks, go make Lock, Stock part 2, and stay away from X-Men.

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Old 06-19-2011, 02:50 PM   #315
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

I'm glad that they added the so called spy element to this movie because it gave the X-men and villains another dimension. Making them to take part in one in one of the most serious nuclear conflicts in history that elevated their status from just gangs of good mutants vs bad mutants.

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Old 06-19-2011, 02:54 PM   #316
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

As much as I loved X2, I loved First Class a lot more. It's gonna be a lot more re-watchable for me.

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Old 06-19-2011, 03:09 PM   #317
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Arrogance? Really?

Wow. That's... terribly extreme.

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Old 06-19-2011, 03:11 PM   #318
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

first class was better

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Old 06-19-2011, 03:20 PM   #319
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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Arrogance? Really?

Wow. That's... terribly extreme.
It's Nell, it's to be expected from him.

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Old 06-19-2011, 03:45 PM   #320
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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But I don't want a superhero spy movie. I want an X-Men movie.

I have the entire James Bond collection. If I want to watch a spy movie, it's not hard for me to put one on. But when I watch an X-Men movie, I want to watch an X-Men movie. Not a James Bond movie.

I've stated it plenty before, when Vaughn allowed the movie to be an X-Men movie, it was incredible, and arguably the best of the series. But there were too many times where he wouldn't let it be an X-Men movie, because he wanted to make a James Bond / British spy film, and it took me right out of the movie. And ultimately, it's that aspect that keeps this movie from cleanly topping X2 or X-Men: The Last Stand in my book.

Sorry, but turning Moira McTaggert into a CIA agent, complete with spinning booths into secret chambers, break away submarine bases for the villain, cheesy mustache twirling (something that Vaughn *****ed about Singer's movies for) villains with plans of global destruction while missiles fly across a map and explode in cheesy mushroom clouds, and split screen newspaper headlines with mushroom clouds going off simultaneously, all that crap was stupid for an X-Men movie. Hell, a lot of that stuff would have been stupid even in a James Bond movie. Ultimately, it's why I hope Vaughn is never allowed near another X-Men movie. His arrogance is astounding, and he's never had respect for the X-Men or the X-Men films from his first involvement with X-Men: The Last Stand. I want him far, far away from X-Men. You want to make gritty British flicks, go make Lock, Stock part 2, and stay away from X-Men.
That's an interesting perspective...but it was Singer who conceived the story for First Class, so the Cuban Missile Crisis/Cold War/Armageddon elements were already in place.

This is the first X-Men movie that's set the main story in a real historical setting, although both it and X1 begin with the Auschwitz scene (based on Magneto's comic book origins).

And the X-Men Origins: Magneto script, which seems to be similar to the early parts of First Class, also featured Erik as a Nazi-hunter and the involvement of the CIA (though not Moira MacTaggert).

MacTaggert was made a CIA agent in this film so that she too could feel like an outcast (which she was in a sexist era) and thus expand the metaphor of mutant discrimination so that she would empathise with the X-Men's cause. Also, Banshee was - in the comics - a member of Interpol in his very early days, so the notion of law enforcement organisations being involved in the X-Men's early years isn't entirely new.

I don't think Vaughn went overboard with the Bond elements, as they all fitted the story. It did bring a new twist to the X-Men franchise, in my view. It's obvious that Vaughn did not just do his thing at the expense of the source material, because of several elements lifted right from the comics - the lifting of the submarine, Banshee's costume, Magneto's helmet and later costume, Emma Frost's outfits.

If the film wasn't to your taste because of the Bond vibe in the earlier scenes and the historical elements, then fair enough. But it's likely we'll still be getting historical backdrops if this franchise continues, as Singer has already alluded to the Civil Rights protests, Kennedy assassination and Vietnam War being possible settings or influences.

The opening scene of X1 being set in 1944 has always meant that the X-Men existed within a version of real-world history and this film simply expanded on that and filled in the blanks of some of what happened since 1944.

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Old 06-19-2011, 07:35 PM   #321
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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^ And that's what makes it awesome.

Superhero spy movie. That's a first.
You think so? I don't. That's what made it not as great for me.

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Old 06-19-2011, 10:47 PM   #322
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

X-Men Origins: Wolverine was also set during the Three Mile Island incident.

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It's Nell, it's to be expected from him.
I'm not the only one who believe that Matthew Vaughn has an incredible ego.

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Old 06-19-2011, 10:51 PM   #323
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

The X-Men movies have always done a GREAT job at using other genres to build upon their story telling. At least the 3 Singer films have.

X-Men was a character drama. X2 was a sci-fi epic. First Class is a globetrotting spy film.

All three devices worked for the stories Bryan Singer chose to tell.


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Old 06-19-2011, 10:56 PM   #324
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Nell, your distaste for Vaughn is odd since most of the things you say you don't like are all Bryan Singer, and for me the reason the film succeeds on so many levels and what sets it apart from most generic blockbusters.

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Old 06-19-2011, 11:41 PM   #325
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Default Re: Which is better: X2 or First Class?

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Nell, your distaste for Vaughn is odd since most of the things you say you don't like are all Bryan Singer, and for me the reason the film succeeds on so many levels and what sets it apart from most generic blockbusters.
Vaughn is the one who can't stop talking about wanting to make a Bond flick, so yea, I tend to credit the "Bond" camp to Vaughn.

I'm not talking about Erik traveling around hunting Nazi's. Erik would hunt Nazi's. It felt natural. That didn't bother me.

Well, until Erik started scuba diving to Shaw's boat, and Shaw had a breakaway submarine base straight out of The World Is Not Enough...

I don't know who to blame for Moira being CIA. Bryan was credited with story, Vaughn was credited with screenplay. So I'd tend to have to go towards Vaughn being responsible for that. But maybe that was Bryan's idea.

Spinning booths that lead to secret lairs? Straight out of Austin Powers - or worse - Scooby Doo. Again, Vaughn wrote the actual screenplay.

Cheesy shots of missiles blowing up on a map and fading to mushroom clouds, shots of newspaper headlines with split screen mushroom clouds going off - Vaughn wrote the screenplay. He'd be responsible for those specific details.

So... when the guy has admitted to writing the screenplay, is credited with writing the screenplay, and only could ever talk about wanting to make James Bond movies when asked about X-MEN: First Class, I think I have a good amount of evidence to credit the cheesy Bond elements that I didn't like to him.

Also, X-Men focusing on character is a lot different than turning the movie into superheroes. Many of the comics and cartoons have been character driven, not action driven. The entire foundation of X-Men that Stan Lee rambles on about in every interview is a foundation of character, heart, and message, with big action displays to add to it, not vice-versa. X2 being a sci-fi epic... Well X-Men always has been sci-fi, so no that is not out of place. The entire premise of the X-Men, of what a "mutant" is, is rooted in science fiction. Elements of X-Jets, sub-basements, and Cerebro, are all science fiction elements.

Maybe I'm missing the issue, but I have never read an X-Men comic that was a spy caper. Sure, there might be an instance of a covert operation here, government involvement there (and inherently, the inclusion of the CIA, and 2 world super powers in conflict with each other didn't bother me, just the elements that turned the film into an absolutely cheesy, bad James Bond rip off), but I can go through my entire X-Men comics collection and not find a single spy caper tale.

Although hey, I'll give Vaughn credit. At least his boner wasn't for making a Star Trek movie. I fear to see how an X-Men in space movie would turn out, I don't care how many times it's happened in the comics. I roll my eyes everytime it does.

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