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Old 05-22-2013, 09:48 AM   #701
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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Originally Posted by JangoNate View Post
This
or Joker walking into a crime boss meeting and killing someone with an innocent prop

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Old 05-22-2013, 11:23 AM   #702
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

JJ is lucky or a very smart human. he is in a position where fans are defending his lazy ideas. some directors need 10-15 years to get to that position. for example Lucas,Spielberg,Jackson,....

i would sell my soul that if the same movie was realesed from Michael Bay that 80% here would complain.

i was entertained with STID. i will maybe watch it again.

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Old 05-22-2013, 11:36 AM   #703
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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I think that is an unfair and highly inaccurate oversimplification of the that position to be honest. Complaints about Star Trek 09 not being enough like classic Trek tended to be about the reboot failing to capture the intellect, themes and allegory/social commentary that made old Trek so great in the minds of many of its fans. They felt that the film was space fantasy adventure that dealt more with Campbell's heroic myth arc than accessible, middlebrow science fiction commentary on the human condition. That is why the most popular criticism you see of nuTrek is that Abrams "dumbed down" Trek.

It is a criticism I greatly agree with, but was willing to overlook because of the film's position as a reboot and its need to focus on re-establish the characters and universe. However, with those tasks accomplished, STID failed to re-establish those other core attributes of Trek. Ina sense, it was more like old Trek in terms of rehashing or revisiting (depending on your point of view) classic Trek storylines/moments, but the social science fiction heart that made Trek what it was for many fans was still missing. One could argue that the Marcus storyline is a 9/11/Invasion of Iraq allegory, but if so many defenders of STID suggest that the film has no political commentary in rebuttal to accusations that the film pushes Orci's Truther politics, then I think it is pretty clear that the the allegory and social commentary that defined the best in Trek is still missing.

You really can't boil this down to a make more like old Trek, no you made it too much like old Trek situation. That is turning the arguments of dissatisfied old fans like myself (not that all old fans are dissatisfied) into straw man arguments.
You're points are valid, but that's why I stated "some" of the fans. and not all of the fans. You clearly aren't part of the group I was talking about, but just because fans like you aren't part of the group I'm talking about doesn't mean they're aren't fans like the ones I was referring to. That said, I see your point.

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Old 05-22-2013, 12:19 PM   #704
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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Originally Posted by dark_b View Post
JJ is lucky or a very smart human. he is in a position where fans are defending his lazy ideas. some directors need 10-15 years to get to that position. for example Lucas,Spielberg,Jackson,....

i would sell my soul that if the same movie was realesed from Michael Bay that 80% here would complain.

i was entertained with STID. i will maybe watch it again.
Well I doubt Bay really gives a damn what fans of the hype say given all the cash he's made. I mean, would you? . Seriously though, at the end of the day one's reaction to STID is really a matter of taste as with any film. We all have different tastes and we all judge films differently, so whether you liked it or not is all that should matter in the end.

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Old 05-22-2013, 12:38 PM   #705
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

So fans are right now divided on IM3 and this. I'm waiting with baited breath to see what the thoughts on MoS are.

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Old 05-22-2013, 12:52 PM   #706
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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Originally Posted by dark_b View Post
JJ is lucky or a very smart human. he is in a position where fans are defending his lazy ideas. some directors need 10-15 years to get to that position. for example Lucas,Spielberg,Jackson,....

i would sell my soul that if the same movie was realesed from Michael Bay that 80% here would complain.

i was entertained with STID. i will maybe watch it again.
Or those fans just enjoyed the movie. There's no need to snide about their intentions.

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Old 05-22-2013, 01:00 PM   #707
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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I like the reversal of the WOK scenario. It reinforces the notion that A) Khan is destined to be there greatest single enemy, and B) they will never, ever be able to defeat him without at least one person making a great (albeit temporary) sacrifice.
Agreed. I had known going that Khan was the villain, but had no idea that they were going to revisit that scene. When it happened, I actually thought it was kinda brilliant to have them switch places, considering where those characters were emotionally at the time. It didn't occur to me at all to be annoyed about it, especially because I loved where they went with it.

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Old 05-22-2013, 03:10 PM   #708
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

Offtopic, the film can now be preordered on Amazon (I just did.)

It will be released September 24, which is a little earlier than I expected.

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Old 05-22-2013, 04:47 PM   #709
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5



http://badassdigest.com/2013/05/21/i...ain-a-spoiler/

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Old 05-22-2013, 06:28 PM   #710
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

Personally I cant see what fans are complaining about when it comes to this movie, but then again I have never been a Trek fan. All I know is that today we dont get too space epics, and both ST movies from Abrams have been that, and they have been damn entertaining and contained characters that I really care about.

I am actually sort of sorry he going to Star Wars, as I want to see were he would take this franchise after STID. We may still see that, but I doubt it somehow, shame, as these two movies have been great. Sorry but the old ST movies, with First Contact being the one exception, just never did it for me, I found them boring most of the time, though I was a kid when I watched them all originally. I have tried watching them since and they still dont do anything for me.

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Old 05-22-2013, 07:22 PM   #711
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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Originally Posted by dark_b View Post
I agree with this. It's not really a spoiler or twist in the context of the film. But for the popular culture outside of the movie it is (if that makes sense).

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Old 05-22-2013, 07:48 PM   #712
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

I think it would have been better for the film's marketing and box office if they had promoted the reveal. Trailers and TV spots could have showcased the idea
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
that Harrison is Khan but Kirk and the crew don't realize the importance/danger of that whereas the audience does.

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Old 05-22-2013, 08:18 PM   #713
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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Originally Posted by DKDetective View Post
I think it would have been better for the film's marketing and box office if they had promoted the reveal. Trailers and TV spots could have showcased the idea
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
that Harrison is Khan but Kirk and the crew don't realize the importance/danger of that whereas the audience does.
My thoughts, too.

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Old 05-22-2013, 09:05 PM   #714
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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Agreed. I had known going that Khan was the villain, but had no idea that they were going to revisit that scene. When it happened, I actually thought it was kinda brilliant to have them switch places, considering where those characters were emotionally at the time. It didn't occur to me at all to be annoyed about it, especially because I loved where they went with it.
I thought the nature of that exchange was quite different than WoK because of the reversed roles and timing of their relationship, and this made it worthwhile for me. I don't think there's any point in TOS or TOS films where it would have worked for Kirk and Spock have that moment, which just goes to show that it wasn't really a rehash.

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Old 05-22-2013, 09:08 PM   #715
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

I was thinking the Nimoy scene would have fit better after the climax. Old Spock wouldn't be giving advice, but instead just expressing his relief that the new crew faced Khan without such a great cost. Sticking that scene in the middle of the action wasn't really necessary.

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Old 05-22-2013, 09:16 PM   #716
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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Originally Posted by bunk View Post
I was thinking the Nimoy scene would have fit better after the climax. Old Spock wouldn't be giving advice, but instead just expressing his relief that the new crew faced Khan without such a great cost. Sticking that scene in the middle of the action wasn't really necessary.
Well, it was a cheap moment of telling instead of showing as a way of ramping up the intensity of the conflict and an attempt to fill non-fans unfamiliar with Khan in on the character's significance to the franchise.

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Old 05-22-2013, 09:23 PM   #717
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

No, it was for the fans. They had already been showing how deadly Khan is the entire movie.

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Old 05-22-2013, 09:30 PM   #718
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

I am a huge Spock fan. He's been downright inspirational at times to me over the years. Seeing him in the 09 movie brought tears to my eyes. I thought he got a great send off and passed the torch to the new crew. I can't believe I'm about to say this, but I wish they'd left him out of Into Darkness and let Nimoy's version leave with dignity instead of pulling him out to play the part of Obi Wan's ghost.

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Old 05-22-2013, 09:48 PM   #719
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

Did this get posted?

EXCLUSIVE: J.J. Abrams Shows A Deleted "Star Trek Into Darkness" Scene
CONAN Highlight: To answer charges of sexism in "Star Trek," J.J. shows a cut scene of Benedict Cumberbatch showering.

All I have to say is... they totally should've left that in!!!!

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Old 05-22-2013, 09:53 PM   #720
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

Why did JJ Abrams say they were going in a new direction with this series, when 'Into Darkness' is just a pseudo-remake of 'Wrath Of Kahn'?

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Old 05-22-2013, 10:00 PM   #721
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

He changed his mind?

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Old 05-22-2013, 10:03 PM   #722
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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Originally Posted by terry78 View Post
So fans are right now divided on IM3 and this. I'm waiting with baited breath to see what the thoughts on MoS are.
Actually STAR TREK: Into Darkness isn't seeing as much division like Iron Man 3 has in regards to the Mandarin. The overall consensus among fans on various message boards on the web seemed to have enjoyed Star Trek a lot it was action packed, benedict Cumberbatch was brilliant as the villain etc... Their are some that notice the similarities to Wrath of Khan but it didn't by no means derail the enjoyment of the film.

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Old 05-22-2013, 10:03 PM   #723
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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He changed his mind?
I hope his doesn't mean we'll get a third Death Star in Episode VII...

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Old 05-22-2013, 10:05 PM   #724
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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I hope his doesn't mean we'll get a third Death Star in Episode VII...
I always thought using a second Death Star was rather dull... But then the third movie was the weakest of the original trilogy, so there you go.

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Old 05-22-2013, 10:06 PM   #725
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Default Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Part 5

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Actually STAR TREK: Into Darkness isn't seeing as much division like Iron Man 3 has in regards to the Mandarin. The overall consensus among fans on various message boards on the web seemed to have enjoyed Star Trek a lot it was action packed, benedict Cumberbatch was brilliant as the villain etc... Their are some that notice the similarities to Wrath of Khan but it didn't by no means derail the enjoyment of the film.
I'm torn; all the characters/actors were great, the comedy was solid, action was good to ok but it was too messy of a plot, they derailed/lost Kahn's motive, and got too undermining in the end.

The first was overall more solid and why I got on board this train. Just wish they grew upon their new timeline and not just retread the old. Should I get ready to search for Spock again, in the film?

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