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Old 07-11-2018, 08:31 PM   #76
Last Skywalker
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Default Re: Rian Johnson's trilogy

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She should be better than Ben Solo you're right...by the end of Episode 9 ultimately lol. She shouldn't be better than him at Jedi/lightsaber fighting at the end of her first movie. Then again if they end Episode 9 on a dark note like you suggested and Kylo Ren beats Rey that'd be something different. It'd be them reversing the situation I guess I don't know lol.
No... laying her out in that scenario is to help impart that he is no longer Ben Solo(because she beat him twice)... but something else that is now far beyond her power to simply defeat in armed combat.

And by laying her out, I do not mean with a lightsaber battle. More in the vain of what Snoke was doing to her in 8, but taking it far beyond that. It wouldn't even be a contest and should have rightfully killed her. The damage physically and mentally should be worse than what happened to Anakin in 3. She needs to go to a dark, dark place mentally(who am I?) while dealing with a severe identity crisis physically(what am I?).

It should leave no doubt that she is no longer Kylo Ren's better or even in his zip code with all things pointing to a dark, dark galaxy for a good while(there is usually a time gap between trilogies) as the SuperFriends go on the run and Kylo Ren(no longer Ben Solo) has complete control of the galaxy.

Absolutely everything needs to crater, if you're going to set stakes that matter for 10-12 that seem unattainable and not half-ass this. If going this route, you go fully in one direction winning and the other direction losing, same as the end of the previous two trilogies. Its in overcoming that dark place and coming to an understanding of who she is and what she wants to be, that the true hero is finally revealed. But it doesn't come out without a heck of a lot of pain.


Last edited by Last Skywalker; 07-11-2018 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:13 PM   #77
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Default Re: Rian Johnson's trilogy

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No... laying her out in that scenario is to help impart that he is no longer Ben Solo(because she beat him twice)... but something else that is now far beyond her power to simply defeat in armed combat.

And by laying her out, I do not mean with a lightsaber battle. More in the vain of what Snoke was doing to her in 8, but taking it far beyond that. It wouldn't even be a contest and should have rightfully killed her. The damage physically and mentally should be worse than what happened to Anakin in 3. She needs to go to a dark, dark place mentally(who am I?) while dealing with a severe identity crisis physically(what am I?).

It should leave no doubt that she is no longer Kylo Ren's better or even in his zip code with all things pointing to a dark, dark galaxy for a good while(there is usually a time gap between trilogies) as the SuperFriends go on the run and Kylo Ren(no longer Ben Solo) has complete control of the galaxy.

Absolutely everything needs to crater, if you're going to set stakes that matter for 10-12 that seem unattainable and not half-ass this. If going this route, you go fully in one direction winning and the other direction losing, same as the end of the previous two trilogies. Its in overcoming that dark place and coming to an understanding of who she is and what she wants to be, that the true hero is finally revealed. But it doesn't come out without a heck of a lot of pain.
I'd accept that IF Abrams is actually going to do that but I don't think he will. I agree with others that Disney and Lucasfilm are going for a happy ending for Rey.

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Old 07-11-2018, 10:25 PM   #78
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I'd accept that IF Abrams is actually going to do that but I don't think he will. I agree with others that Disney and Lucasfilm are going for a happy ending for Rey.
Fair enough. The answer to that is really about the only thing that still has my interest with Star Wars.

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Old 07-12-2018, 07:45 AM   #79
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I’ve only read posts on this page but why is feminism suddenly considered a bad thing?

As always, it's projection from crybabies.


I can't be the only person in the world who saw Holdo in TLJ and simply thought "oh cool it's Laura Dern".

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Old 07-12-2018, 11:21 AM   #80
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I’ve only read posts on this page but why is feminism suddenly considered a bad thing?
I don't consider feminism bad.

A screenplay and movie that clumsily clubs you over the head with it, as if it was written by a 5-year old? Hoo boy, that's bad. Bad writing is bad writing.

As a contrast... since Star Wars is the eternal goofus here... lets go with Marvel again as gallant and say that I am very much looking forward to Captain Marvel next year, and highly doubt that there will be the same level of detest to it, as the amateur hour Lucasfilm screed The Last Jedi. But then, Marvel knows what they're doing and hire people that actually write and deliver quality superhero films, not political teachable moments.

If you are a card carrying member of that movement, its only does a disservice to have that stuff done incredibly poorly and ruin films with enormous fanbases. And its tonedeaf to simply deny every criticism as if it were the feminist things that were at issue, and not the fact that the film got destroyed by how they were handled.

Another example, Wonder Woman, that new one with Gadot, is also a movie I like very much and have 0 problems with, while also containing a fair amount of feminism.

Its how its handled that is key.


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Old 07-13-2018, 07:16 AM   #81
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An actual example of beating you over the head with it to the detriment of the movie= Ghostbusters

I mean, clearly it triggered a lot of people in TLJ, but it barely even registered with me when I was watching the film. Holdo was just an obvious foil to Poe's character. That made total sense within the film. It could've been accomplished with a male commander too, but Star Wars has a history of having females in prominent positions of power. It just felt like par for the course for the franchise, and a little bit of subversion with her appearing to be more of a hippie-dippie type than what Poe was expecting. Clearly as Leia's favorite he's used to taking orders from women, there was nothing in the film that I took to be saying Poe was a sexist or misogynist. He is just over eager to be the hero, has a bit of an ego and needs to learn to think before he acts sometimes. It's pretty straight forward. That's a lesson that resonates with Luke and Anakin's journeys too.

I think in 2018, we're all just so saturated with this whole topic that the smallest whiff of it in a film can set people off. It's a tricky balance to walk, I admit. And I do think some films handle it better than others.

And while I'm sure Captain Marvel will handle if fine, at the same time it's taken Marvel over 10 years to give a female hero her own film. They're going with the trend, it's easy to be a bit more cynical about it. Star Wars can at least play that card with a bit of legitimacy, as depicting strong women has been in its DNA since the original.


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Old 07-13-2018, 09:47 AM   #82
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An actual example of beating you over the head with it to the detriment of the movie= Ghostbusters
Also True.

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I mean, clearly it triggered a lot of people in TLJ, but it barely even registered with me when I was watching the film. Holdo was just an obvious foil to Poe's character. That made total sense within the film. It could've been accomplished with a male commander too, but Star Wars has a history of having females in prominent positions of power.
If the roles were reversed with the same dialogue, people wouldn't even question the horrid writing at play here. The narrative made no logical sense and clearly Johnson has never been in the military or even bothered to try to understand the culture at play here.

There are ways to have them go at each other(with her ultimately being shown to be right and him actually learning something from it) that don't make both look totally incompetent. Poe for Mutinying, and Holdo for not shoving him out an airlock and seeing if he can fly like Leia, but instead saying its ok because he's cute. He made the Resistance look like a band of merry fools, rather than a cohesive military body.

The trope is so cliché at this point(subordinate questions orders of the leader, is ultimately wrong), that simply getting a real writer to write that part would have helped. Instead we got some teevee director that doesn't even know what he doesn't even know about writing.

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Old 07-13-2018, 10:19 AM   #83
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Deleted. Double post for some reason.

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Old 07-13-2018, 09:56 PM   #84
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I'm fine with taking Star Wars away from everyone right now. Fans have proven to be toxic and they can't play nice at all. They are immature and childish. When that happens, you take the toy away from everyone and put all parties in time out.

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Old 07-13-2018, 10:22 PM   #85
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I'm fine with taking Star Wars away from everyone right now. Fans have proven to be toxic and they can't play nice at all. They are immature and childish. When that happens, you take the toy away from everyone and put all parties in time out.
I'm fine with that, so long as Disney is fine with not making Star Wars movies. #needlescratch.

I'm guessing the investors aren't fine, because they were promised 50 years of returns from the investment in LucasFilm, not two. Disney has hundreds of millions riding on that new Star Wars themed hotel, amongst other things(Star Wars supposedly being the flagship for the Streaming Network).

I'm guessing the unemployed aren't fine, because they were promised there would be more Star Wars Movies to work on. Also.. no movies, no merchandise sales #yikes #whatwereyouthinking.

In this game of... we'll take stuff away... Disney has a lot more to lose by continuing to be adversarial with the fans via their surrogates. You can't just make anything you want and call it good.. sorry. There aren't enough ForeverSold to generate the money needed. It has to actually BE good and has to appeal to more than just the ForeverSold.

And on the fan side, fans can always go find other content to spend their money on to keep their attention. Star Wars is no longer a unique snowflake in the pop culture landscape and tomorrow is promised to no one, not even a galaxy far, far away.


Last edited by Last Skywalker; 07-13-2018 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:06 PM   #86
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Default Re: Rian Johnson's trilogy

Star Wars’ Rian Johnson Deletes More Than Twenty Thousand Tweets After James Gunn Controversy

http://epicstream.com/news/Star-Wars...nn-Controversy

Someone hit the Wayback Machine, some good might come out of this situation after all...

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Old 07-24-2018, 08:00 PM   #87
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Default Re: Rian Johnson's trilogy

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Star Wars’ Rian Johnson Deletes More Than Twenty Thousand Tweets After James Gunn Controversy

http://epicstream.com/news/Star-Wars...nn-Controversy

Someone hit the Wayback Machine, some good might come out of this situation after all...
What is wrong with you?

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Old 07-25-2018, 03:54 PM   #88
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What is wrong with you?
They have no lives, so they feel the need to lash out at people for things not going their way.

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Old 07-25-2018, 05:40 PM   #89
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They have no lives, so they feel the need to lash out at people for things not going their way.
Not true at all. If I actually had no life I'd devote an entire week to combing over Rian Johnson's Tweets myself!

In all seriousness, it was a joke. I mean, if Rian was let go I'd jump for joy, but I'd prefer it be for reasons other than this. I think the whole James Gunn thing sets a bad precedent, and I'd just as soon not see happen to anyone else, even someone that I dislike the work of.

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Old 07-25-2018, 07:03 PM   #90
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Good to know you weren't being serious. I'm not a fan of Gunn's work on GoTG, but like you said the reasons for his firing were asinine and not something I would wish on anybody. I definitely do not want to see this start a trend.

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