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Old 04-18-2017, 12:34 PM   #101
Joe Von Zombie
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

Mainstream comics have been trash since the since the 90's. Doesn't have a damn thing to do with political slants. A genuine lack of creativity across the board is the real issue. As much as I love superheroes, its a medium that's wasted on them.

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Old 04-18-2017, 12:36 PM   #102
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Mainstream comics have been trash since the since the 90's. Doesn't have a damn thing to do with political slants. A genuine lack of creativity across the board is the real issue. As much as I love superheroes, its a medium that's wasted on them.
LOL. I haven't READ comic books since the 90s so you might be right. Good writers are good writers regardless of political ideology.

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Old 04-18-2017, 02:05 PM   #103
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

I find that the really heavy handed stuff like in the Cap Falcon books I read during CWII are pretty damn awful.

They were doing stuff like #NotMyCap, using direct comparisons to the election and issues with things you see on CNN.

If I wanted to read about stuff like that then I'd watch CNN, Colbert or any number of a million or so people on youtube spouting stuff.

If it's subtle stuff that makes you think and consider things, then awesome and more power to them. If it's blatant as **** and shoved in your face like they're saying 'Do you get it now? It's a mirror to what's happening! We're making it relevant!' then they can **** off entirely.

Either get writers that can get the message across without being so obvious that it hurts or just sidestep the issue entirely. Yeesh.

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Old 04-18-2017, 02:39 PM   #104
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

I can't even read comics from the 90s. Saying there hasn't been great Marvel comics in the 21st century is hugely dismissive.

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Old 04-18-2017, 02:46 PM   #105
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Mainstream comics have been trash since the since the 90's. Doesn't have a damn thing to do with political slants. A genuine lack of creativity across the board is the real issue. As much as I love superheroes, its a medium that's wasted on them.
I miss Remender. The creations he came up with were just amazing. And weird.

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Old 04-18-2017, 04:08 PM   #106
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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I can't even read comics from the 90s. Saying there hasn't been great Marvel comics in the 21st century is hugely dismissive.


Whenever I see comics like that, I can't help but wonder what modern comics the person in question has actually read...

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Old 04-18-2017, 11:49 PM   #107
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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I find that the really heavy handed stuff like in the Cap Falcon books I read during CWII are pretty damn awful.

They were doing stuff like #NotMyCap, using direct comparisons to the election and issues with things you see on CNN.

If I wanted to read about stuff like that then I'd watch CNN, Colbert or any number of a million or so people on youtube spouting stuff.

If it's subtle stuff that makes you think and consider things, then awesome and more power to them. If it's blatant as **** and shoved in your face like they're saying 'Do you get it now? It's a mirror to what's happening! We're making it relevant!' then they can **** off entirely.

Either get writers that can get the message across without being so obvious that it hurts or just sidestep the issue entirely. Yeesh.
I hear ya. this still isn't uncommon for comic's.

but it's better when they used allegory and as marvel used to say often in the many making of comic's in video movies they are supposed to send the message with out beating over the head with it. it seem's they for gotten how to do that. again what they were doing wasn't problem it was the Execution.
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I can't even read comics from the 90s. Saying there hasn't been great Marvel comics in the 21st century is hugely dismissive.

completely agree with there were alot of enjoy stories in the 90's yeah there some bad and there rehash especially those overly obsessed withth80's which is partof the issue there people on the books that still mentally stuck there in the 80's just kept rehash and it's still happening. any way's the 80's had some bad stuff happening too. as does this period. and the late 70's . there isn't that many period completely free or as bad as some people make there are up's and lows and some really heavy lows sadly.

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Old 04-21-2017, 08:32 PM   #108
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

When ever I read about someone with a liberal or conservative leaning complaining about the opposite end of the spectrum, all I can think is "Wow, either you're really afraid of other peoples opinions, or at the very least hold your own opinions way to high."

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Old 04-22-2017, 08:18 AM   #109
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

I am glad they are adding diversity to Marvel, it is much needed. I just wish they did it the DC method by adding new characters vs. replacing existing ones. Can you imagine killing Clark Kent and make some new person Superman? I just think they could have done it a different way.

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Old 04-22-2017, 03:28 PM   #110
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I am glad they are adding diversity to Marvel, it is much needed. I just wish they did it the DC method by adding new characters vs. replacing existing ones. Can you imagine killing Clark Kent and make some new person Superman? I just think they could have done it a different way.
I assume this is sarcasm?

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Old 04-22-2017, 04:20 PM   #111
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I assume this is sarcasm?
Yes..

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Old 04-26-2017, 11:48 AM   #112
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

People have said that it's the uninteresting stories that are turning them off the Marvel comics, not the SJW slant, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. I really think those stories are a direct result of Marvel writer's political views.

Thor, Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, Ms. Marvel. All of these characters have been replaced in the past 5 years or so with a minority or female (or both) version. And none of the replacements have the fan interest to sustain them.

It may be anecdotal evidence for these bad stories, but it's hard to ignore the trend that readers and journalists have questioned why so many new and/or minority characters have been put into "legacy" roles, with no real reason or natural build up to it.

The stories aren't bad because of the minority characters, but because the entire justification of these stories is to have these minority characters in prominent roles. So they tend to be pretty empty, uninteresting stories.

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Old 04-26-2017, 01:09 PM   #113
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Yes..
Oh, okay. You never can tell. Some readers seem to think replacing characters is a new phenomenon, or that those replacements are only a problem if they are non-white. This tidbit for example:

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These characters were not created to satisfy some social directive like the current AA Kid Flash. Notice, Jay, Barry, Alan, and Hal - are all white guys! Duplicating names and powers was a plot device, not a plea to the Social Justice set.

I'm all for diversity in comics but recoloring somebody and having them adopt a name used by someone else isn't "diversity" - it's laziness
taken from the comments here:http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/john-r...ing-characters

So if a white character replaces a white character it's a plot device, but it's NOT a plot device if a non-white character replaces a white character according to that guy Also not sure what characters he thinks have been "recolored"...

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Thor, Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, Ms. Marvel. All of these characters have been replaced in the past 5 years or so with a minority or female (or both) version. And none of the replacements have the fan interest to sustain them.
Who is Ms. Marvel replacing...Sharon Ventura? Because Carol Danvers had already taken the name Captain Marvel.

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Old 04-26-2017, 01:19 PM   #114
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

Yeah, putting Ms. Marvel in the "uninteresting" writing category seems to be pretty ignorant of the book. Ms. Marvel is a pretty highly regarded title, critically.

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Old 04-26-2017, 01:37 PM   #115
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

I am ignorant of the book. Haven't read it. But the other four major characters still stand. (And I still count her as a replacement, just the same as I consider Jason Todd a replacement for Dick Grayson, even if he had a new superhero identity by that time.)

And Kamala Khan does fit into the category of a new minority legacy character. So she still serves as an example of what I think JewishHobbit's original argument was, though I won't try to put words in his mouth.

On the surface, no matter how good her book turned out to be, she looks like a character that was created just for diversity's sake.

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Old 04-26-2017, 01:39 PM   #116
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

So? Her book tells stories too you know.

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Old 04-26-2017, 01:43 PM   #117
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

...I never said it didn't.

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Old 04-26-2017, 01:54 PM   #118
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

But you are speaking as if there's a problem here.

Thor's comics are great too and Jane hasn't stopped Marvel from telling stories about Odinson. There's room for eveyone at the table.

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Old 04-26-2017, 02:04 PM   #119
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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On the surface, no matter how good her book turned out to be, she looks like a character that was created just for diversity's sake.
All non-white characters look like that in the minds of some.

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So? Her book tells stories too you know.
Heh, exactly. I thought that was the point (from a comic book reader perspective)...reading books with stories and/or art that you like. "Good" is totally subjective of course, but is anybody out there really saying "This story is good but it 'looks like' the character was created for the sake of diversity...so I can't read it" WTF

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Old 04-26-2017, 02:06 PM   #120
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

I agree, there is room at the table for everybody. The problem is how Marvel has been doing it. In most cases, they've been marginalizing the characters that have been a staple, and that audiences have been reading for decades, for the sake of diversity.

This is an obvious oversimplification, and will sound like a demonization of the story line, which I don't intend. But we're at a point right now in the Captain America comics where white Captain America = evil and black Captain America = good. That's hard to overlook in the context of this discussion.

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Old 04-26-2017, 02:12 PM   #121
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Heh, exactly. I thought that was the point (from a comic book reader perspective)...reading books with stories and/or art that you like. "Good" is totally subjective of course, but is anybody out there really saying "This story is good but it 'looks like' the character was created for the sake of diversity...so I can't read it" WTF
I don't know if anybody is avoiding the Ms. Marvel book because of their perception around the character. But it paints a picture of the company as a whole, which is what JewishHobbit's title of this thread refers to.

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Old 04-26-2017, 03:07 PM   #122
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

Ms. Marvel is an example of them doing it well. Carol Danvers has been anything BUT marginalized.

The issue is people conflate the successes with the misses. And when you lump them all together, it is not a very good look.

And I wonder how long before people turn on X-men Gold, for again making a real world allegory.

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Old 04-26-2017, 05:42 PM   #123
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

X-men Gold was great and exactly the type of stories X-men have told and will keep telling. If anyone thinks mutants wouldn't be the target of Fox News style fear mongering and hate then they are deluding themselves.

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Old 04-27-2017, 10:08 AM   #124
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

It doesn't matter why they decided to create Kamala or any other character, so long as the resulting stories are good. Anyone who dismisses a good book because "it looks like it was made for diversity" doesn't have a problem with the character, but with diversity in general.

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Old 04-27-2017, 10:37 AM   #125
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

And it is important to point out, that some of these "diverse" stories are coming about because Marvel is diversifying it's creative staff. A lot of why Ms. Marvel works is because it is written by a Muslim woman.

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