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Old 05-15-2018, 12:58 PM   #201
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
Some Marvel editors used to use the theory (inconsistently) that when you go back in time you don't actually change time, you just spin off an alternate timeline.

That seems more likely than if they actually went back and took the stones and changed their own past, because hardly any Marvel movie's story would be unaffected (No mind stone = no Scarlet Witch, no Scarlet Witch = no Civil War plot, no Civil War plot means T'Challa never becomes king, etc.)

This still doesn't answer the question of how they can go back and get the stones without making it seem like any story can just be undone through this kind of travel. That's the missing puzzle piece, the reason it only works for this one thing and not for undoing any other bad thing that happens.
If they did this, there would be no internal logic to the story... this can't be it. I believe they are doing something far more impressive and subtle in the final film.

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Old 05-15-2018, 01:07 PM   #202
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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If they did this, there would be no internal logic to the story... this can't be it. I believe they are doing something far more impressive and subtle in the final film.
So what's your explanation for filming SHIELD Stark, Ant-Man and Captain America in Avengers 1 New York with those wrist gadgets and filming new shots of Loki held prisoner by SHIELD?
Oh, and since they're using Pym tech to revisit the scene of Avengers 1, it would be trivial to hitch a ride on Thor or Loki at flea size and heist the Space Stone from Odin's vault.

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Old 05-15-2018, 01:18 PM   #203
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

Filming details
https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudi...lming_details/

They clearly filmed scenes for Avengers 4 during the Avengers 3 shoot.
Durham Castle must represent Valhalla or Hel.


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Old 05-15-2018, 01:20 PM   #204
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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So what's your explanation for filming SHIELD Stark, Ant-Man and Captain America in Avengers 1 New York with those wrist gadgets and filming new shots of Loki held prisoner by SHIELD?
Oh, and since they're using Pym tech to revisit the scene of Avengers 1, it would be trivial to hitch a ride on Thor or Loki at flea size and heist the Space Stone from Odin's vault.
There is clearly time/quantum travel back to at least AI but they are not switching the stones, since it would, again, make no sense. Switch the tesseract and travel like a flea to take it later? Odin would probably notice, and then Loki/Odin would probably notice, for example... and where the bejezus would they get a fake Infinity Stone capable of fooling, like, the Masters of the Universe?

I think there is a 'fix' and some of the characters are in on it for a long time, and others not so long... it has to do with words, and warnings, and changing certain actions at the 'right' times. We're going to get a grand tour of the entire phase, and also get some 'rest of the story' so we can go back and watch those movies and know what is happening behind that door, there. jmo.

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Old 05-15-2018, 01:21 PM   #205
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

I think "they're looking for their own gauntlet" seems like a likely premise. They need a simple premise to anchor such a complicated movie and it parallels the premise of Thanos assembling the gauntlet.

What none of the leaks (if true) have answered is: a) Why can they only do it this one time, instead of just time-hopping every time something goes wrong? b) How can they get the stones without wiping out all the adventures we've seen?

I'm willing to bet the writers have come up with answers to these questions, but I have no idea what they are.

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Old 05-15-2018, 01:35 PM   #206
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

So what exactly do they do with said new gauntlet? Because anything they could do with said gauntlet would be a total mess.

They key is keeping him from getting them all. They just have to keep him from getting one of them, no need to get complicated with all of them.

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Old 05-15-2018, 01:53 PM   #207
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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The guy who went to set as the Omaze winner said they were filming Avengers: Infinity War Part 2. He said these people were there: Chris Evans, Scarlett Johansson, Gwyneth Paltrow, Brie Larson, and Robert Downey Jr.

They filmed inside an outdoor "green screen field." The scene they didn't wasn't much; he described it as pretty simple. So mostly just them talking. And since it was green screen he couldn't really tell what was going on. RDJ apparently had a few lines where he was saying he was "hurt" and then "I'm fine" (Omaze winner later noted he had "scars" from makeup still on after filming). It was about a five minute take, which they did several times. He asked RDJ what the green screen was going to be and RDJ said it was a "ship."
?!? I never saw this before; well that tells us something about Carol's role. I wonder what she's doing on a ship with Cap, Tony, Pepper and, of all people, Black Widow.

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Old 05-15-2018, 01:56 PM   #208
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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?!? I never saw this before; well that tells us something about Carol's role. I wonder what she's doing on a ship with Cap, Tony, Pepper and, of all people, Black Widow.
Maybe her day job is "midwife"

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Old 05-15-2018, 03:13 PM   #209
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

Since child Gamora appears in the Soul Stone in the same structure as the one they were walking toward when she was being led away from her world by Thanos, perhaps the person trapped in the Soul Stone is in the last place they were truly happy... she was the same age, too.

This could make the sets and filming from the 1940s, with Peggy there, too, a real big spoiler for Steve's fate. I don't think that sequence is going to be time travel....

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Old 05-15-2018, 03:40 PM   #210
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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Since child Gamora appears in the Soul Stone in the same structure as the one they were walking toward when she was being led away from her world by Thanos, perhaps the person trapped in the Soul Stone is in the last place they were truly happy... she was the same age, too.

This could make the sets and filming from the 1940s, with Peggy there, too, a real big spoiler for Steve's fate. I don't think that sequence is going to be time travel....
...
... o_O
Yeah, I'll buy that. Soul World is an afterlife where you're put in a simulacrum of when you were last truly happy. Well, then.

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Old 05-15-2018, 04:23 PM   #211
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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...
... o_O
Yeah, I'll buy that. Soul World is an afterlife where you're put in a simulacrum of when you were last truly happy. Well, then.
that makes me feel icky. when a happy ending... isn't. really.

but sounds like something they would do, huh?

eta: and if the Soul Stone always has to be occupied, Carol was trapped in it in the 1990s, and that is why Fury used the old tech to call her, because he had been warned (by Strange) that if dustings happened, it meant Carol was freed, call her immediately... ok, a stretch, but it would explain a couple of things.


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Old 05-15-2018, 05:02 PM   #212
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
I think "they're looking for their own gauntlet" seems like a likely premise. They need a simple premise to anchor such a complicated movie and it parallels the premise of Thanos assembling the gauntlet.

What none of the leaks (if true) have answered is: a) Why can they only do it this one time, instead of just time-hopping every time something goes wrong? b) How can they get the stones without wiping out all the adventures we've seen?

I'm willing to bet the writers have come up with answers to these questions, but I have no idea what they are.
Thats what i want to know as well

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Old 05-15-2018, 05:38 PM   #213
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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that makes me feel icky. when a happy ending... isn't. really.

but sounds like something they would do, huh?

eta: and if the Soul Stone always has to be occupied, Carol was trapped in it in the 1990s, and that is why Fury used the old tech to call her, because he had been warned (by Strange) that if dustings happened, it meant Carol was freed, call her immediately... ok, a stretch, but it would explain a couple of things.
But why would Captain Marvel be trapped in the Soul Stone? Who would want the Infinity Stones enough to sacrifice her for one?

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Old 05-15-2018, 05:45 PM   #214
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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But why would Captain Marvel be trapped in the Soul Stone? Who would want the Infinity Stones enough to sacrifice her for one?
Beats me, but it would explain a lot in that IW scene.

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Old 05-15-2018, 05:56 PM   #215
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

I was wondering whether Brie Larson would be aged up from her own movie or, if she isn't, how they would explain her being the same age. Having her be "out of time" in some way would add fuel to the idea that she's a partial replacement for Cap (and a partial analogue to Wonder Woman in a way that she isn't in the comics).

I don't know about the soul stone theory, but "has Carol aged since the '90s?" is one of the unanswered questions about Avengers 4.


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Old 05-15-2018, 09:00 PM   #216
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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I was wondering whether Brie Larson would be aged up from her own movie or, if she isn't, how they would explain her being the same age. Having her be "out of time" in some way would add fuel to the idea that she's a partial replacement for Cap (and a partial analogue to Wonder Woman in a way that she isn't in the comics).

I don't know about the soul stone theory, but "has Carol aged since the '90s?" is one of the unanswered questions about Avengers 4.
She has super powers it wouldn't be crazy if she doesn't age.
Thor is 1500yrs old
Cap and Bucky were iced but still have not age much. Cap being a super soldier and all.

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Old 05-15-2018, 09:03 PM   #217
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

Before the Soul stone was introduced I thought it would be involved in Captain Marvel. Now I don't think she will be involved with it. She is likely far off in the Galaxy maybe not wanting to get in fights all the time. Maybe she has to watch over some threat she believes is the most dangerous and before Thanos was on the radar.

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Old 05-16-2018, 01:47 AM   #218
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
Some Marvel editors used to use the theory (inconsistently) that when you go back in time you don't actually change time, you just spin off an alternate timeline.

That seems more likely than if they actually went back and took the stones and changed their own past, because hardly any Marvel movie's story would be unaffected (No mind stone = no Scarlet Witch, no Scarlet Witch = no Civil War plot, no Civil War plot means T'Challa never becomes king, etc.)

This still doesn't answer the question of how they can go back and get the stones without making it seem like any story can just be undone through this kind of travel. That's the missing puzzle piece, the reason it only works for this one thing and not for undoing any other bad thing that happens.
I have some theories on how this Paradox is handled.

Here goes:

Barring the use of an Infinity Gauntlet you csnt change time due to the Existence of TimeKeepers.This Cosmic beings exist to protect Time.They Kill TimeTravelers and Undo any changes they make to the Past.

The Avengers cant steal the Stones from the past as the Timekeepers will simply undo it.So instead they go to the Past and with some new device from Eitri they duplicate the Stones.Of course they have to survive in the Past whilst being attacked by Time keepers.

In the End it comes down to Avengers Duplicated Gsuntlet vs Real Gauntlet by Thanos

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Old 05-16-2018, 08:53 AM   #219
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

By integrating inter-dimensional/time travel they've successfully made any theory we have utterly pointless and wrong.

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Old 05-16-2018, 09:21 AM   #220
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

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I have some theories on how this Paradox is handled.

Here goes:


In the End it comes down to Avengers Duplicated Gsuntlet vs Real Gauntlet by Thanos
thats awful and uninspiring imo

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Old 05-16-2018, 10:05 AM   #221
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

I forgot about that leaked Peter strange thing

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Old 05-16-2018, 11:01 AM   #222
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

I buy some of those "leaks," but not all of them.

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Old 05-16-2018, 11:34 AM   #223
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I buy some of those "leaks," but not all of them.
What do and don't you buy? Because I constructed a synopsis mostly from set photos, plus comments by the Russos that seem least likely to be deception, things Gwyneth Paltrow has said/posted, and one comment by Sebastian Stan.

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:57 PM   #224
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thats awful and uninspiring imo
Agreed. We literally just had an entire Avengers movie dedicated to collecting infinity stones - not interested in seeing that again.

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Old 05-17-2018, 01:30 AM   #225
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Default Re: Lets Talk Avengers 4 and what we know #Spoilers?

Im just saying... if they do the time travel thing... its 100% going to lead to Kang being the next big bad...

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