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Old 05-15-2018, 10:28 PM   #676
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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Just to throw in people talking about how Marvel will change things up.

I expect some MAJOR changes if/when they get the rights back to X-Men. More radical than most fans are going to be prepared for, because while a number of mutants haven't been done great by Fox/Singer, the bones of the piece (tolerance, peaceful dissent vs. radicalism, a school and oasis for alienated and isolated teens) has actually been done very well... and to death.

While they can focus on getting Storm better as a leader and letting the team have more soapy dynamics and whacky adventures... the core principles could see some radical changes. For instance, I kind of like the idea of something like Jeffrey Wright as Charles Xavier and Denzel Washington as Magneto.

You need to completely reframe the piece. If you don't think they will look at every character in SM:HC who isn't Peter Parker.

... the Fantastic Four? Just doing it right will be different enough. That requires less reinvention and more efficiency.
Isn't "the same MLK vs. Malcolm X metaphor... only now its more literal cause they are black now!" a little too on the nose and obvious?

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Old 05-15-2018, 10:50 PM   #677
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

I am just groaning at these ideas.
The first X-Men film had Patrick Stewart as Xavier, Ian McKellan as Magneto, Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry, and a good script. That's the standard to match.
Also? Race bending Magneto? There was a good movie that spent significant time emphasizing that he was a Jew in Nazi Germany. Casting a black actor is just going to make audiences uncomfortably confused.

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Old 05-15-2018, 11:46 PM   #678
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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Isn't "the same MLK vs. Malcolm X metaphor... only now its more literal cause they are black now!" a little too on the nose and obvious?
Especially by literally casting actors who previously played Dr. King and Malcolm X respectively.

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Old 05-16-2018, 01:40 AM   #679
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

If X-men ever comes to the MCU the first thing they should address is why public praise the Avengers and demonize mutants. That makes NO sense. The public have no idea who were born with their powers and who was not. It doesn't make sense in the comics and it wouldn't make sense in the movies.

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:06 AM   #680
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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Isn't "the same MLK vs. Malcolm X metaphor... only now its more literal cause they are black now!" a little too on the nose and obvious?
I disagree. Xmen started out as an allegory for civil rights but debuted with a white cast because in those days and fledgeling comic book series couldn't be successful by so directly tackling controversial social issues like that. Now it's 2018, and there is no reason to be indirect about these issues. I think a little "on the nose" take, which is unabashed about its topic is exactly what we need.

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:11 AM   #681
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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If X-men ever comes to the MCU the first thing they should address is why public praise the Avengers and demonize mutants. That makes NO sense. The public have no idea who were born with their powers and who was not. It doesn't make sense in the comics and it wouldn't make sense in the movies.
I think the explanation is that the Avengers are trusted (perhaps less so after the accords) and idealised heroes, whereas mutants can be any random person on the street, and people don't know if they're good people or bad people. We've already seen some negative reactions to lesser known heroes like Jessica Jones. I think the distinction between a costumed celebrity superhero and a seemingly normal person on the streets whipping out superpowers makes sense.

Plus, assuming we get some kind of event that causes a widespread activation of the X-gene, that takes superpowered beings from a few small teams to being a minority within society.

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:28 AM   #682
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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I disagree. Xmen started out as an allegory for civil rights but debuted with a white cast because in those days and fledgeling comic book series couldn't be successful by so directly tackling controversial social issues like that. Now it's 2018, and there is no reason to be indirect about these issues. I think a little "on the nose" take, which is unabashed about its topic is exactly what we need.
My interpretation is that the writers used their own life experiences, as good writers do, as Jewish people to give the xmen a voice. In those days Jewish people could arguably integrate and the assumption at the time is that they should.

Obviously as time has gone on the xmen have celebrated people who could never 100% integrate and should never have been asked to which is why I love them so much

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Old 05-16-2018, 08:30 AM   #683
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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I think the explanation is that the Avengers are trusted (perhaps less so after the accords) and idealised heroes, whereas mutants can be any random person on the street, and people don't know if they're good people or bad people. We've already seen some negative reactions to lesser known heroes like Jessica Jones. I think the distinction between a costumed celebrity superhero and a seemingly normal person on the streets whipping out superpowers makes sense.

Plus, assuming we get some kind of event that causes a widespread activation of the X-gene, that takes superpowered beings from a few small teams to being a minority within society.
I don't think it's really hard to explain why mutants can be hated in a place where the Avengers are loved.

We can start by the fact that mutants are a different species, homo superior, and that already can be a base for the prejudice, along with the fear of replacement with mutants being the "next step of evolution".

Also, mutants can be any random person and their powers usually manifest when they're teenagers and most of the time out of control, resulting in accidents and tragedies. That can be use as motivation for the government to try control mutants, and starting a persecution. Plus, the accidents resulted by those "out of control" mutants can be one of the basis for the hate towards them and why they're seen as dangerous.

Last but not least there are also some ethical issues coming with them. And the Senator Kelly's speach in the first X-Men movie makes a lot of sense. There are mutants who can walk through walls and there're mutants who can read our minds. And they can be anyone. And he uses that to justify the Mutant Registration Act.

I mean, there are a lot of issues regarding mutants that can explain the hate towards them, the government trying to control and the persecution.

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Old 05-16-2018, 08:45 AM   #684
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

I don't see how it doesn't make sense when it happens in the real world. Black music stars have been popular with white people for decades even while racism over the whole race was more common. A superhero team defending the earth would be popular in the real world now IMO while a mutant with uncontrollable powers on every street corner would not be. If the only mutants were the X-Men then they wouldn't be hated and could be treated just like another superhero team like the Avengers. But they are representing and defending mutants (as well as humans) as a whole which is where the negativity comes from.

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Old 05-16-2018, 11:48 AM   #685
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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I am just groaning at these ideas.
The first X-Men film had Patrick Stewart as Xavier, Ian McKellan as Magneto, Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry, and a good script. That's the standard to match.
Also? Race bending Magneto? There was a good movie that spent significant time emphasizing that he was a Jew in Nazi Germany. Casting a black actor is just going to make audiences uncomfortably confused.
Not any more confused than if they try to explain how he survived the Holocaust and yet is still in his 60s. We've seen the Holocaust origin done well twice now. It's time they update it to something more relevant to modern day headlines. The one necessity I think his part holds is that he should not be American.

Xavier/Magneto


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Old 05-16-2018, 11:52 AM   #686
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

Why are people pushing so hard to race swap Xavier and Magneto? Just no

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Old 05-16-2018, 11:57 AM   #687
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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Why are people pushing so hard to race swap Xavier and Magneto? Just no
Why not?

For me, Denzel as Xavier has nothing to do with wanting to race-swap and everything to do with him being the best choice for the part.

For Magneto, I firmly believe his origin should be updated to more relevant current events, and changing his race, particuarily making him Arabic, does exactly that.

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Old 05-16-2018, 12:05 PM   #688
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

What is even the point of putting the X-Men in the MCU if you want them to be less faithful to the comics than the FOX universe was?
Why should we care about Magneto if he can't be the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver's father and has an unrecognizable origin?

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Old 05-16-2018, 12:36 PM   #689
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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Why are people pushing so hard to race swap Xavier and Magneto? Just no
Because a lot of people close their eyes really, really hard to what the X-Men stands for and what they're really about.

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Old 05-16-2018, 12:41 PM   #690
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

If anything, race swapping Xavier and Magneto allows more room for 'regionally white' X-Men like Nightcrawler and Colossus to appear. Those are characters with too strong ties to their countries to be race swapped, meaning the more white characters there are the less likely they are to be used. So race swapping as many white characters as possible that don't have specific cultural ties can actually increase the chances of some white characters appearing.

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Old 05-16-2018, 12:49 PM   #691
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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What is even the point of putting the X-Men in the MCU if you want them to be less faithful to the comics than the FOX universe was?
Why should we care about Magneto if he can't be the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver's father and has an unrecognizable origin?
Magneto's parentage of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver is completely inessential to his character(he wasn't even revealed to be their father until years after the X-Men first appeared in comics). I hope they don't retcon Magneto to be Wanda's father --it just would be unnecessary and kind of obligatory. Just because it was that way in the comics doesn't always mean it has be that way in the movies. Here's what is essential to Magneto's character: He's a militant, zealous, Mutant supremacist who wants mutants to be the dominant race on the planet and has a uncompromising, no-holds barred, ends-justifies-the-means mentality which contrasts heavily with former friend and peer Xavier's more pacifist "mutants and non-mutants can happily co-exist with each other" mentality.


Magneto having offspring doesn't really add much to his character.

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Old 05-16-2018, 12:52 PM   #692
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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Nothing wrong with race swapping Xavier and Magneto. Magneto especially could use an updated origin. The heart of the characters would stay the same.
Nope, Magneto would be a hot mess going forward. Writers would be unable to mine his appearances in comics for inspiration, because so many of them are informed by being a minority from WW2 Germany and his relationships with his children (played by white actors).

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Old 05-16-2018, 02:19 PM   #693
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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Why not?

For me, Denzel as Xavier has nothing to do with wanting to race-swap and everything to do with him being the best choice for the part.

For Magneto, I firmly believe his origin should be updated to more relevant current events, and changing his race, particuarily making him Arabic, does exactly that.
You know why not. Would you have been cool if they had hired someone like Jadyen Smith or Trevor Jackson to play Peter Parker?

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Old 05-16-2018, 02:28 PM   #694
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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You know why not. Would you have been cool if they had hired someone like Jadyen Smith or Trevor Jackson to play Peter Parker?
I would have been cool with hiring a black actor to play Uncle Ben. :P

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Old 05-16-2018, 02:33 PM   #695
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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If anything, race swapping Xavier and Magneto allows more room for 'regionally white' X-Men like Nightcrawler and Colossus to appear. Those are characters with too strong ties to their countries to be race swapped, meaning the more white characters there are the less likely they are to be used. So race swapping as many white characters as possible that don't have specific cultural ties can actually increase the chances of some white characters appearing.
This doesn't make much sense

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Old 05-16-2018, 02:41 PM   #696
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

Funny thing is I get the feeling that Denzel would have no interest in playing Xavier. Lol

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:10 PM   #697
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This doesn't make much sense
How so? Let's say they want to start out with a team of 7 (Professor X included) but want only 3 white characters at most. If they choose not to racebend anyone, white characters like Bobby and Hank get prioritized over Nightcrawler and Colossus. If on the other hand they're ok with race swapping Bobby and Hank, the chances of them choosing to include Nightcrawler and Colossus just went up.

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:35 PM   #698
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

Are we at the point where diversity requires white actors being the minority of the cast?

"Sorry, Mr. DiCaprio. You had the best screen test for the character Cyclops, but we've reached our white hero quota."

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:40 PM   #699
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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How so? Let's say they want to start out with a team of 7 (Professor X included) but want only 3 white characters at most. If they choose not to racebend anyone, white characters like Bobby and Hank get prioritized over Nightcrawler and Colossus. If on the other hand they're ok with race swapping Bobby and Hank, the chances of them choosing to include Nightcrawler and Colossus just went up.
You're assuming that Marvel is going to create a "white quota" as if to dictate how many white characters they can have on the team before it becomes too much which is kinda ridiculous. Nightcrawler has never been a "white dude" he was born from Raven and Azezel whom are blue and red. So he can be played by any race. Colossus, yeah I agree. He has to be white but just because two other white people are in the team doesn't mean he can't be added because he's white. When you start doing that, you become too focused on a characters skin color as opposed to the CHARACTER themselves and that will make you miss out on some of the best X-Men members. That's just my opinion.

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Old 05-16-2018, 03:56 PM   #700
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 1

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You're assuming that Marvel is going to create a "white quota" as if to dictate how many white characters they can have on the team before it becomes too much which is kinda ridiculous. Nightcrawler has never been a "white dude" he was born from Raven and Azezel whom are blue and red. So he can be played by any race. Colossus, yeah I agree. He has to be white but just because two other white people are in the team doesn't mean he can't be added because he's white. When you start doing that, you become too focused on a characters skin color as opposed to the CHARACTER themselves and that will make you miss out on some of the best X-Men members. That's just my opinion.
Exactly. Its like Zoe Saldana with Gamora. The race doesnt matter too much when casting actors to play characters that are an unnatural color.

I dont see why they need to race swap any of the X-men. Im fine with minor supporting characters, but its unnecessary and Id rather they stay more true to the main team. Most of the A-lister X-men, are primarily caucasian but there are plenty of B and C listers that arent. If they want diversity, then this could be a chance to elevate and prompt may of the other characters that go ignored or are rarely represented. Monet, Moonstar, Warpath, Rictor, Sunfire, Gentle, Bishop are just a few of the many characters that could be utilized


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