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Old 08-22-2017, 11:50 AM   #1
ZIPBAGS
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Default This show in the larger MCU...

I am just starting episode 5 and the only reason I am posting this here is I am afraid of seeing spoilers. I know they still call the alien invasion from "The Avengers" the incident. I just find it hard to believe that if something this dramatic was happening in NYC...the Avengers or some of them would be interested? I wish they would have just kept the universes separate if they are going to pull these things. Even just a comment by one of the group that The Avengers are not around...anything. Or how about a mention that the Avengers came to recruit them. In the movies we see Tony recruit a teenage Spidey stopping muggers in Queens. Yet, not one of the Defenders was worth talking to?

Again, I know the reasons for this ($$). Just wanted to vent. Has it been brought up elsewhere?

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Old 08-22-2017, 12:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Guys I think we should just let it go.

I agree with the fact that The Avengers should be interested but I don't think it'll happen

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Old 08-22-2017, 12:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

The Netflix stuff barely feels connected to any of the rest of the MCU. Like they won't even address it by name. They cannot just say "The Avengers," they have to try to be cute and clever and call them something like "the green guy and his crew," which was just dumb. They cannot use character names, and the timeline is confusing to (forget the films, just trying to line them up with say, AOS, causes headaches).

Also the fact that Avengers/Stark Tower isn't shown to be part of the NYC skyline (which is even more annoying because they've shown repeated clear shots of said skyline) is a pet peeve of mine. If you're not going to have one of the most recognizable buildings in the universe as part of it, the stop showing the skyline so clearly.

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Old 08-22-2017, 12:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

I mean (Defenders spoilers)
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
mystical immortal ninjas are digging up dragon bones in the middle of NY. I mean....Doctor Strange sure should have been interested.


Then again if he showed up, the entire season is a single 5 minutes episode called "Nope, Denied".

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Old 08-22-2017, 01:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Other than saying "Let it go", I'll say this:

I've been reading comics for 30+ years now. Not every hero shows up in every one else's book.

The Avengers didn't show up in every X-Men book or even ever Cap/Iron Man/Thor book.

The Defenders stuff is happening in the shadows and away from the Avengers POV. On the other hand, DD, JJ, LC and IF have smaller fish to fry than the stuff the Avengers tackle.

Simple.

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Old 08-22-2017, 01:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

I actually don't mind The Avengers being there, that's easy enough to explain (especially if this is post-CW). Spider-Man, or the AOS crew, yeah that's a bit more iffy.

I think that it comes down to a difference in medium. What many can accept in the context of a comic becomes a lot me awkward when you see it onscreen with real actors.

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Old 08-22-2017, 01:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

I think what Loki882 said is what bothers me the most. Don't want them to show up...fine. But can you say the Alien Invasion or the Hulk instead of "the incident" or the green guy?

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Old 08-22-2017, 01:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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Originally Posted by ZIPBAGS View Post
I think what Loki882 said is what bothers me the most. Don't want them to show up...fine. But can you say the Alien Invasion or the Hulk instead of "the incident" or the green guy?
Yes, we're all in agreement that that's stupid.

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Old 08-22-2017, 05:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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Originally Posted by TheCardPlayer View Post
I mean (Defenders spoilers)
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
mystical immortal ninjas are digging up dragon bones in the middle of NY. I mean....Doctor Strange sure should have been interested.
If he found out about it.

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Old 08-22-2017, 07:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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They cannot use character names,
They can and they have. They just choose to couch their names in vague references more often than not. It's a choice I don't love, but they have used character names before.

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Old 08-22-2017, 09:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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Originally Posted by ZIPBAGS View Post
I think what Loki882 said is what bothers me the most. Don't want them to show up...fine. But can you say the Alien Invasion or the Hulk instead of "the incident" or the green guy?
I think The Incident is the name they gave it within the world of the show. Like how we say 9/11 instead of something more lengthy like "the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center." And they have mentioned Captain America and Thor by name.

Personally, I don't understand why this is a question that has to be raised with EVERY MCU property. We already know why The Avengers aren't showing up: the departments are separate and it's too expensive. These shows have budgets of 50 million. Robert Downey Jr. was paid that same amount to appear in the first Avengers. Even if he took a pay cut of fifty percent his paycheck alone would eat up half the seasons budget, and I assume the rest of the actors aren't far off from that. It's not going to happen, probably ever.

Further, this show is about four characters, none of whom are Avengers. It's their story, you've been following it for five seasons waiting for this culmination. If you're really that hung up on why the Avengers aren't showing up or getting a call in the Defenders big moment, perhaps this isn't for you.

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Old 08-22-2017, 11:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

If anything, the first seasons of "Daredevil" and "Jessica Jones" gave out the strongest name drops/references to the larger MCU compared to anything else that we've ever gotten.

- Foggy actually calls out Captain America's name.

- Wesley references both Thor and Iron Man when confronting the Russian mob in their inability to kill Daredevil.

- Jessica Jones is targeted by a deranged woman who lost her mother in the battle of New York City.

But aside from those references, you could pretty much have this show take place in its own world/continuity with no connection to the MCU at all.

And even if you don't mind never seeing anyone from the larger MCU showing up in these shows, another issue that throws it off (for me at least) is how technology is presented on these shows.

The MCU films and even "Agents of SHIELD" have shown that even regular people have access to holographic computer screens and that those with some resources can easily acquire hi-tech weapons.

Yet, the world that we see in the Neftlix shows is more grounded into our own reality where you couldn't buy the idea that this is the same world where a person can ride a flying car.

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Old 08-23-2017, 12:06 AM   #13
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Not everything needs to crossover and be taken care of by Iron Man and Spider-Man. We also don't know where on the timeline this all happens. Was Spider-Man a thing yet? Was it pre Civil War or post?

Ultimately, The Avengers are dealing with bigger things and could be on the other side of the world or broken up and hiding... no need for them to help out some small heroes in Hells Kitchen.

And like what some people have said, this is like the comics, they don't always group up in those for huge things. It was all street level characters for Shadowland.

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Old 08-23-2017, 03:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

I got used to it; it's really not that big of deal. Even the movies between them have those problems:

- Where were Fury and Hill during Civil War?

- Where were the Avengers during Ego's Expansion on Earth in GoTG 2?

and so on ...

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Old 08-23-2017, 12:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

My only problem is the denial of events going on. Does a mystical ninja cult really sound all that crazy when one lives in a city that has seen an alien invasion led by the Norse God, Loki?

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Old 08-23-2017, 12:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

The Netflix shows are a lot better than Agents of SHIELD is at making it believable the Avengers wouldn't be there. At least this feels like a smaller scale than Hive and Inhumans, for instance.

Other than Cage not believing Danny, that's the only thing that made me smh.

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Old 08-23-2017, 12:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

The split between Marvel Studios and Marvel Entertainment seemed to change the relationship between TV and film from "Its all connected!" to "It's not completely contradictory!". And the split between Disney and Netflix may have created further complications for mixing movie and TV characters. My guess is that the Punisher will be the last program in the Marvel Netflix universe and at some point many of these characters will be rebooted and recast into the Cinematic MCU.

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Old 08-23-2017, 12:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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Originally Posted by Zarex View Post
The split between Marvel Studios and Marvel Entertainment seemed to change the relationship between TV and film from "Its all connected!" to "It's not completely contradictory!". And the split between Disney and Netflix may have created further complications for mixing movie and TV characters. My guess is that the Punisher will be the last program in the Marvel Netflix universe and at some point many of these characters will be rebooted and recast into the Cinematic MCU.
What makes you think this? All 4 shows have been picked up another season. I don't think Netflix has any thought of giving up their cash cow.

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Old 08-23-2017, 01:02 PM   #19
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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What makes you think this? All 4 shows have been picked up another season. I don't think Netflix has any thought of giving up their cash cow.
Disney's plan to launch their own streaming service along with Netflix's purchase of Millarworld has me thinking that their won't be any new shows in the Marvel Netflix-verse post Punisher. Disney may want to keep their options open for a possible Marvel branded service, which could use a Moon Knight show (for example) as a selling point. I'm sure Netflix would prefer to keep the relationship going, but I think the Marvel Netflix-verse is closer to the end than the beginning.

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Old 08-23-2017, 02:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

These events and the Defenders in general are in such a small pocket of New York that they'd probably be a minor blip on the greater MCU's radar. Maybe not even street level enough that Tony would tell Peter to take care of it. Heck, unless the Defenders keep up with the news or what's going on in the world, I'd wager they may not even be aware of what happened in Sokovia.

Seems that, like a comic book, that yes, they're in the greater world, but focused on telling their own stories.

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Old 08-23-2017, 09:37 PM   #21
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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Disney's plan to launch their own streaming service along with Netflix's purchase of Millarworld has me thinking that their won't be any new shows in the Marvel Netflix-verse post Punisher. Disney may want to keep their options open for a possible Marvel branded service, which could use a Moon Knight show (for example) as a selling point. I'm sure Netflix would prefer to keep the relationship going, but I think the Marvel Netflix-verse is closer to the end than the beginning.
You are fluffing this up into something bigger than it should be. They stated that the Netflix shows would stay. The Disney thing would be for movies and kids shows mostly.

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Old 08-24-2017, 12:12 AM   #22
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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Not everything needs to crossover and be taken care of by Iron Man and Spider-Man. We also don't know where on the timeline this all happens. Was Spider-Man a thing yet? Was it pre Civil War or post?

Ultimately, The Avengers are dealing with bigger things and could be on the other side of the world or broken up and hiding... no need for them to help out some small heroes in Hells Kitchen.

And like what some people have said, this is like the comics, they don't always group up in those for huge things. It was all street level characters for Shadowland.
I guess the thing that proves to be irksome for me at times is that when you have these large organizations (The Hand, Hydra from Agents of SHIELD, etc) all planning to either conquer the world or lay waste that will result in the deaths of millions of innocent people, they never once consider the threat that the Avengers may pose if they were to come across them and treat it as if they aren't even a possible obstacle for these groups.

I mean I know the Avengers deal more with global stuff but if you have a group that plans on bringing these big plans to life, then you would have to assume that it will eventually catch the attention of the Avengers at some point.

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Originally Posted by ImSGirl95 View Post
I got used to it; it's really not that big of deal. Even the movies between them have those problems:

- Where were Fury and Hill during Civil War?

- Where were the Avengers during Ego's Expansion on Earth in GoTG 2?

and so on ...
Yeah, I was a bit puzzled on why Fury and Hill were never included in AOU.

Though in regards to Ego's thing, well it was such a fast incident that I doubt the Avengers would have had enough time to arrive on the scene and make a difference before it was resolved by the Guardians.

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Old 08-24-2017, 08:32 AM   #23
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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I guess the thing that proves to be irksome for me at times is that when you have these large organizations (The Hand, Hydra from Agents of SHIELD, etc) all planning to either conquer the world or lay waste that will result in the deaths of millions of innocent people, they never once consider the threat that the Avengers may pose if they were to come across them and treat it as if they aren't even a possible obstacle for these groups.

I mean I know the Avengers deal more with global stuff but if you have a group that plans on bringing these big plans to life, then you would have to assume that it will eventually catch the attention of the Avengers at some point.



Yeah, I was a bit puzzled on why Fury and Hill were never included in AOU.

Though in regards to Ego's thing, well it was such a fast incident that I doubt the Avengers would have had enough time to arrive on the scene and make a difference before it was resolved by the Guardians.
In regards to why the Avengers wouldn't be involved with an organization like the Hand, I'd say that the Hand generally moves in the shadows and isn't very "showy", unlike Hydra who, while being a behind the scenes thing, tend to be a little "loud" with their plans. The Defenders only knew about all this because of IF and DD's direct connections to he conflict and LC/JJ being involve with the normal people who are affected by it.

The Avengers are macro, the Defenders are micro, the Guardians are cosmic and Dr. Strange is mystical.

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Old 08-24-2017, 11:47 AM   #24
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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The Avengers are macro, the Defenders are micro, the Guardians are cosmic and Dr. Strange is mystical.
I am surprised that with all of the mystic happenings in "The Defenders" that Dr. Strange would not be involved. Especially, since both he and Iron Fist went to the Himalayas to train with mystic monks. Yes, I know the real world $$$ reason its not. Would have been cool if one of the characters said "shouldn't this be something that Dr guy handles?"

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Old 08-24-2017, 12:11 PM   #25
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Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

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Originally Posted by ZIPBAGS View Post
I am surprised that with all of the mystic happenings in "The Defenders" that Dr. Strange would not be involved. Especially, since both he and Iron Fist went to the Himalayas to train with mystic monks. Yes, I know the real world $$$ reason its not. Would have been cool if one of the characters said "shouldn't this be something that Dr guy handles?"
I don't think the Defenders are even aware of Dr. Strange's existence. Plus, you have to fill in some of this stuff with your own imagination. I miss the concept of No-Prizes.

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