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View Poll Results: Rate the finale
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8 4 20.00%
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Old 05-23-2018, 10:43 AM   #51
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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Originally Posted by Lencho01 View Post
After all that with Nora, I guess the name was supposed to be the surprise. Maybe they’ll reveal one of her names is Dawn. Sorta like what they did with Laurel on Arrow. Or maybe not. Maybe Don doesn’t even exist. I feel like they could’ve removed her from the whole season but this episode. Maybe also her last appearance with her saying the new baby’s due date.
It also depends on whether they're following the comics, or taking inspiration from them.

Godspeed for example - we haven't seen him (yet?) but he's supposed to be a lab partner of Barry's - Barry hasn't had any partners except Julian. Savitar is another example; Savitar was never a time remnant of Barry (in the comics) yet here, he was. It's quite possible that from the shows perspective, Don doesn't exist, and neither does Dawn. Nora may be Barry & Iris' only child.

Then again, the timeline could change at a later date, and Nora may become erased. Heh!

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I laughed at Barry’s face when he knew Iris got the reference to Harry and Cisco’s quote. We’re we supposed to take that as a real goodbye to the character of Harry?
I may be wrong here, but I thought that was a Star Trek quote, and Barry's face was him realising that whilst Iris got the sci-fi reference, she got the wrong one.

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Old 05-23-2018, 11:58 AM   #52
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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Has the Season 5 villain been confirmed or something? I do not know of actual confirmation anywhere?
Not confirmed yet but we do know it won't be a speedster and the casting call makes it clear it's Cicada

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Old 05-23-2018, 12:06 PM   #53
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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Not confirmed yet but we do know it won't be a speedster and the casting call makes it clear it's Cicada
Considering DeVoe, I can't imagine they're going to get an entire season out of Cicada. He may be one villain, but I don't imagine he'll be the season-long villain that they're unfortunately likely to do again.

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Old 05-23-2018, 01:16 PM   #54
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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Considering DeVoe, I can't imagine they're going to get an entire season out of Cicada. He may be one villain, but I don't imagine he'll be the season-long villain that they're unfortunately likely to do again.
Sounds like they're going to. I just hope they have his plan planned out better than Devoe's.

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Old 05-23-2018, 01:52 PM   #55
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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It also depends on whether they're following the comics, or taking inspiration from them.

Godspeed for example - we haven't seen him (yet?) but he's supposed to be a lab partner of Barry's - Barry hasn't had any partners except Julian. Savitar is another example; Savitar was never a time remnant of Barry (in the comics) yet here, he was. It's quite possible that from the shows perspective, Don doesn't exist, and neither does Dawn. Nora may be Barry & Iris' only child.

Then again, the timeline could change at a later date, and Nora may become erased. Heh!

I may be wrong here, but I thought that was a Star Trek quote, and Barry's face was him realising that whilst Iris got the sci-fi reference, she got the wrong one.
Yeah, I know they may change things up. But, it would be weird for them to not use the idea of Barry and Iris having twins. Just seems like something they'd have fun with. Unless there's a budget restraint to it or they just don't know how to write it to make it work. So, there could be no Dawn or Don. Just Nora.

Yep, the quote was a Star Trek one. Sorry for typo. I just laughed at how confident Iris was when she said it was Star Wars and Barry had a "Uh... no" look on his face.

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Old 05-23-2018, 02:19 PM   #56
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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Yeah, I know they may change things up. But, it would be weird for them to not use the idea of Barry and Iris having twins. Just seems like something they'd have fun with. Unless there's a budget restraint to it or they just don't know how to write it to make it work. So, there could be no Dawn or Don. Just Nora.
Does Nora Allen II exist in the comics? It may simply be that the writers could only comprise enough story content for another speedster, and they didn't (or couldn't) waste time on what would have been two speedsters. Had they introduced one of the Tornado Twins, they'd have had to introduce them both.

That said, with the whole multiverse out there, it's more than possible the Tornado Twins exist (as offspring's of Barry & Iris) on another Earth? Maybe (somehow) they're over in the future of the Earth 2 couple?

Another option is that in one timeline, Iris has a single daughter (Nora) but in another timeline, she has twins (Dawn & Don). The possibilities truly are endless.

All that being said though, and getting back to Nora II, I hope she's not wasted like Wally was. Presumably going into the fall, Wally will (re)join Legends leaving Barry & Nora II dealing with the next threat to the city. between them, and Ralph (here's hoping he sticks around) that may be too many heroes on the show when you factor in the writers didn't know how to utilize Wally, and we've also got Cisco and (soon to be) Caitlin with powers too.

Also wondering whether they'll use Nora II in the crossover event; the realisation from Kara and Ollie that Barry & Iris have a fully grown daughter from the future to help them fight might be interesting, that and Diggle's head might actually explode!

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Old 05-23-2018, 02:25 PM   #57
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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Not confirmed yet but we do know it won't be a speedster and the casting call makes it clear it's Cicada
I don't mind another non speedster villain, I just don't have the confidence in the staff.

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Old 05-23-2018, 02:54 PM   #58
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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I don't mind another non speedster villain, I just don't have the confidence in the staff.
Same, I don't have confidence in their ability to adapt Cicada, especially after the way they completely wasted the potential with Savitar's cult. I'd like to see some new showrunners get on board.

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Old 05-23-2018, 03:04 PM   #59
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

That's the problem here; repeating what essentially is the same.

First we had Thawne, okay, an original villain, and a prime enemy of Barry. Then we had Zoom which was in a similar theme (another Speedster) and then Savitar (yet another Speedster, but with a cult).

Cicada is yet another cult, and that's already a theme that they've had with Flash, and it's a theme they've ran with over on Supergirl lately too. I really wish the writers hadn't ruined the Rogues; those guys could have played a pivotal part in each and every season whilst not actually being the big bad.

Shame they couldn't do a larger arc with Grodd either.

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Old 05-23-2018, 03:15 PM   #60
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

Savitar's cult was glossed over so much that they can still really focus on that for Cicada. I do agree about Grodd. I wish they could even make him the big bad for a season but that's not realistic unless we have a lot of mind control involved.

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Old 05-23-2018, 05:40 PM   #61
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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That's the problem here; repeating what essentially is the same.

First we had Thawne, okay, an original villain, and a prime enemy of Barry. Then we had Zoom which was in a similar theme (another Speedster) and then Savitar (yet another Speedster, but with a cult).

Cicada is yet another cult, and that's already a theme that they've had with Flash, and it's a theme they've ran with over on Supergirl lately too. I really wish the writers hadn't ruined the Rogues; those guys could have played a pivotal part in each and every season whilst not actually being the big bad.

Shame they couldn't do a larger arc with Grodd either.
I think Gotham is a perfect example where if a show does a great job in establishing its gallery of villains that you could easily have them carry a season as the main antagonistic threat to the heroes rather than relying on one single villain for an entire season.

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Old 05-23-2018, 06:03 PM   #62
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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I think Gotham is a perfect example where if a show does a great job in establishing its gallery of villains that you could easily have them carry a season as the main antagonistic threat to the heroes rather than relying on one single villain for an entire season.
I hate-watch Gotham and think its mostly trash, but I do have to admit that is one of the strengths of the show.

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Old 05-24-2018, 08:18 AM   #63
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

My son also said that by doing what Nora did at the end and helped Barry would cause another Flashpoint.

Also, those who think they remember her from something besides Black Sails. It might be that she was on Smallville. She played Plastique....


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Old 05-24-2018, 08:42 AM   #64
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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I think Gotham is a perfect example where if a show does a great job in establishing its gallery of villains that you could easily have them carry a season as the main antagonistic threat to the heroes rather than relying on one single villain for an entire season.
You're spot on! How many of the Gotham villains have become reoccurring or have fluctuated between the seasons? Nigma & penguin have been there since the start, and they're still going on strong.

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My son also said that by doing what Nora did at the end and helped Barry would cause another Flashpoint.
Kinda' begs the question of how big a difference is needed before a Flashpoint event can occur. Is it something significant (killing/saving someone) or something as small as a ripple (such as spilling coffee on someone?)

In any case, had she not intervened when she did, there's a good chance that either Barry would have failed and everyone would have become dumb (thus, no intelligent Nora II) or Barry would have succeeded, but at the cost of his own life (and again, no Nora II).

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Also, those who think they remember her from something besides Black Sails. It might be that she was on Smallville. She played Plastique....

It may have been, though I never [religiously] watched Smallville, and I don't remember her ever being in it. I've heard the likes of Aquaman, Flash, Hawkgirl, and even Supergirl show up in it, but I don't remember any of that. I kinda' zoned out shortly after Lana left the show; I remember a scene with Clark going to see her before she got on a bus, only to witness Lex giving her a farewell or something..

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Old 05-24-2018, 04:40 PM   #65
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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My son also said that by doing what Nora did at the end and helped Barry would cause another Flashpoint.

Also, those who think they remember her from something besides Black Sails. It might be that she was on Smallville. She played Plastique....

She had previously played a witch on a CW show called "The Secret Circle".

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Old 05-24-2018, 05:15 PM   #66
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

Not a great finale. And what was this about Nora not being who we thought she was going to be at all? She was exactly who we thought she was. As if anyone didn't think she was Barry and Iris's daughter. At least she looks believably the part.

What happened to all the people that Devoe absorbed? Are they still in Ralph? Can Devoe also reawaken at some point and take back control?

And how come they let Marlize go like that after all she did? Is she going to show up again since they invited her to help them out?

And does she not feel slightly sick with the whole experience and being subjected to having to make out with all these random strangers whose form Clifford assumed?

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Old 05-24-2018, 07:54 PM   #67
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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And how come they let Marlize go like that after all she did? Is she going to show up again since they invited her to help them out?
No she will be like Julian.

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Old 05-25-2018, 07:38 AM   #68
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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I hate-watch Gotham and think its mostly trash, but I do have to admit that is one of the strengths of the show.
I must ask: why hate-watch anything?

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Old 05-25-2018, 03:34 PM   #69
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

Yeah, I don't hate watch anything. I only have a limited amount of time, so wasting it on a show I can't stand watching would be pointless. I only watch something I actually want to follow or think there might be some potential. Or that I followed before but it started going downhill and I'm hoping it will pick up again.

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Old 05-25-2018, 06:15 PM   #70
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

The finale was rather uneven, and I thought it could have been more epic than it was, but I still enjoyed certain parts of it. I largely liked the episode's ending and all the scenes involved with the end: Team Flash's touching farewell to Harry, the reunion of the whole gang in the Allen house, and the stinger with the daughter Nora. Season 4 was pretty inconsistent quality-wise, but I rather liked how the story ended.

Neil Sandilands was great as always, and he portrayed Clifford DeVoe as masterfully as ever. While the main plot of the season didn't always deliver on its promise, Sandilands was always excellent and made DeVoe an intriguing villain. During the middle of the season, I thought it was a mistake to have DeVoe switching bodies so much because none of the substitute actors could ever come close to matching Sandilands' gravitas and sophistication as the Thinker. It was a relief when Sandilands finally returned to the role of the Thinker full-time, and Marlize was also great.

It was also cool when Barry figured out how to beat DeVoe and how to get Ralph to regain control of his body to make DeVoe fade away. That part was pretty sweet.

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Old 05-27-2018, 01:43 AM   #71
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

Well I wasn't expecting a whole lot watching the finale, and I was vindicated.

Devoe as a villain wasn't terrible, just wasted material. The actor was decent and the endgame wasn't abysmal. The problem is that he was defeated too easily being so overpowered.

Please don't bring back Ralph (Julian 2.0). I have nothing against the actor playing him but I can't stand the shoehorning in where Cisco and Caitlin were since the beginning. Barry has enough friends and moral support. I didn't care for Ralph's repetitive insecurities. I'll only +1 him for calling out Iris in 4x16 when no one else had, although Barry did right before she said the worst line in the entire show.

Are they saving the Killer Frost arc for Season 5? Because that one tease of Caitlin's supposed father, Thomas, was out of the blue. At least that's something, still, it would have been great to see Caitlin transform again. Wasted opportunity.

This finale felt like a filler. No villain tease, no high stakes, nothing truly all that exciting happened. Unless they actually follow through and deliver on characters and stories that need it. Future writing symbols? Why introduce them if you're not going to explain what they mean? I don't care much for the spawn of Westallen, it's just going to bore me to tears, I never thought anything could be worse than Olicity.

I don't have high hopes going into Season 5. I was ready to give up on it even though we got 4x22 which was slightly redeeming. The writing is just so inconsistent. They are going to sideline interesting characters and the title hero himself for more soap opera. People were saying they are following Arrow's Season 5 in terms of quality, not really. Arrow's Season 6 will more likely be Flash's Season 5, I can feel it coming. They copy each other a lot. Hope I'm proved wrong.

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Old 05-27-2018, 01:51 AM   #72
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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I must ask: why hate-watch anything?
I like the cinematography/production design and Donal Logue. I do admit it's the only show I've ever hate-watched, but it's like watching a trainwreck - no matter how awful it gets, I can't look away, lol.

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Old 05-27-2018, 10:45 PM   #73
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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I like the cinematography/production design and Donal Logue. I do admit it's the only show I've ever hate-watched, but it's like watching a trainwreck - no matter how awful it gets, I can't look away, lol.
I see, and I've done something similar. I wouldn't have termed it "hate-watching", because I rarely give shows more than a couple of episodes to grab my attention for the duration, but I've had my guilty pleasures on occasion.

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Old 05-28-2018, 10:54 AM   #74
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

Season 1 and 2 are easily my favorite seasons of any comic book tv show (live action), season 3 was meh, but the finale was pretty awesome, this season however while i thought was solid throughout, easily had, in my opinion, the weakest finale of any season. It just didnt seem like a finale to me, it just missed something to give it any gravity. Team Flash wins again, Iris is still annoying (i loved her in the first 2 seasons before she was forced down our throats as "team leader), and the Thinker even though he was interesting in every other episode, just kind of lost in the most unclimatic way possible. The Nora Allen ending was pretty awesome, and i have huge faith for season 5 to bounce back. I know Cicada is the rumored villain, but im willing to bet there will be another villain introduced mid season, possibly from Noras future.

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Old 05-31-2018, 06:19 AM   #75
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Default Re: The Flash season 4 episode 23 "We are the Flash" (Finale!)

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Not confirmed yet but we do know it won't be a speedster and the casting call makes it clear it's Cicada
Just reading up on him sounds like an interesting choice.

Hope to see more Abra Kadabra next season as well liked the actor who played him.

Would really like to see the rogue's team up and together to work as a legitimate threat to Barry next season. They are one of the few groups who consistently do it in the comics. Plus the first two times Barry faced off against the Weather Wizard brothers were two of the most epic scenes in the shows history.

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