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Old 05-23-2018, 01:08 AM   #26
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Creo View Post
That's only partially accurate. Any enhanced individual who wants to use their abilities in any way for combat, defense, private organizations, etc must register. AoS goes into it pretty deep.
That show has no bearing on the film universe, which is what we're talking about.

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The Accord apply to more to the Avengers. Yo-Yo signed the Accords as well and opted in.

It was a framework for registration of enhanced individuals, not just the Avengers.
Again, we're talking about Agents of SHIELD. A show which tries to gain relevance by tying itself into the movies, but which itself doesn't relate to the movies in any way. Nothing which occurs on that show can be considered canon in the film universe, which has made it very clear that the Sokovian Accords applies to the Avengers and only to the Avengers. Spider-Man, for instance, never signed the Accords. Neither did Black Panther. Anybody in the film universe who was never officially an Avenger never signed it. So again, the film universe says otherwise. And Marvel's other shows haven't dealt with it, as Luke Cage has never signed them, so again, AOS is an outlier here and not at all canon for the film universe.


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Old 05-23-2018, 02:29 AM   #27
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

It looks like Henry and Hope Pym will have been fugitives in Ant-Man and the Wasp merely for the crime of Scott Lang violating the Sokovia Accords. How does that work if the law doesn't apply to anyone who's not an Avenger?
Also, why didn't Cap, Scarlet Witch, Falcon, Black Widow and Hawkeye just resign and form a club called the Revengers so they could operate without breaking any law?
For that matter, why would a law banning "enhanced individuals" from operating without U.N. authorization apply to a guy with a US military jetpack or a guy who shoots a bow instead of a gun? "I have a bow! None of this law makes sense!"

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Old 05-23-2018, 03:12 AM   #28
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

Maybe the whole reason the government came up with the sokovia accords was because they knew mutants were going to start demanding rights and coming out of the closet so they wanted to get ahead of it while it was still possible?

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Old 05-23-2018, 06:57 AM   #29
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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That show has no bearing on the film universe, which is what we're talking about.



Again, we're talking about Agents of SHIELD. A show which tries to gain relevance by tying itself into the movies, but which itself doesn't relate to the movies in any way. Nothing which occurs on that show can be considered canon in the film universe, which has made it very clear that the Sokovian Accords applies to the Avengers and only to the Avengers. Spider-Man, for instance, never signed the Accords. Neither did Black Panther. Anybody in the film universe who was never officially an Avenger never signed it. So again, the film universe says otherwise. And Marvel's other shows haven't dealt with it, as Luke Cage has never signed them, so again, AOS is an outlier here and not at all canon for the film universe.
The shows don't effect the movies, but the movies also don't contradict the show. It's pretty clear what the intent is, especially since Hawkeye, a retired Avenger, is arrested for violating the Accords.

We don't know that Spidey didn't sign the Accords, or that Black Panther didn't. We didn't see any of the followup to the Accords after the attack in Vienna.

The shows haven't dealt with it because they're super heroes fighting in secret, and most people don't know they exist.

AoS is canon until Marvel says otherwise.

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Old 05-23-2018, 09:17 AM   #30
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

In another world, Morena Baccarin would have made a great Jean Grey. I kept thinking this while watching Deadpool 2.

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Old 05-23-2018, 09:47 AM   #31
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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The shows don't effect the movies, but the movies also don't contradict the show. It's pretty clear what the intent is, especially since Hawkeye, a retired Avenger, is arrested for violating the Accords.

We don't know that Spidey didn't sign the Accords, or that Black Panther didn't. We didn't see any of the followup to the Accords after the attack in Vienna.

The shows haven't dealt with it because they're super heroes fighting in secret, and most people don't know they exist.

AoS is canon until Marvel says otherwise.
By that same token, no one knows that the X-men and/or other mutants didnt sign the Accords

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Old 05-23-2018, 12:16 PM   #32
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By that same token, no one knows that the X-men and/or other mutants didnt sign the Accords
That's true, but never an argument I've made.

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Old 05-23-2018, 12:18 PM   #33
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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In another world, Morena Baccarin would have made a great Jean Grey. I kept thinking this while watching Deadpool 2.
Yeah, I think she could have been fine.

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Old 05-23-2018, 12:27 PM   #34
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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And that's one of my issue with it. More X-men films means fewer other films in the MCU. They're already encroaching on their own films with Star Wars, animation, and Pixar. Keeping them connected to the MCU means gaps in time (potentiality years), potentially less developed characters, and dancing around why a world that suddenly has thousands of mutants doesn't always have mutants to fight the bad guys.

I'd love for Marvel to have them, but I think they'd get better treatment by staying outside of the MCU proper.
I don't think there's a link in how many X-films they can put out and whether they are connected to the MCU (I don't think you're quite getting that part of what I'm trying to get across - maybe I'm explaining it badly ). The number of X-films (as with any other films) they can put out is limited by resources and demand and will rather than a connection to the MCU or not. The X-films at Fox already had their own level of demand so Disney/Marvel could easily put out at least the amount Fox were doing without changing anything. And for eg if Iron Man was unconnected to the MCU they could still do 3 Iron Man films or less or more, while keeping everything else the same. The connection to the MCU itself doesn't determine how many films they can do.

If they want to stay at 3 films a year total or move to only 4 films a year then in that case (regardless of whether X-films are connected to the MCU) the other films would be impacted. But impacted because of a self-imposed restriction rather than any other necessity, and certainly not as a result of being connected to the MCU or not.

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Old 05-23-2018, 02:27 PM   #35
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I don't think there's a link in how many X-films they can put out and whether they are connected to the MCU (I don't think you're quite getting that part of what I'm trying to get across - maybe I'm explaining it badly ). The number of X-films (as with any other films) they can put out is limited by resources and demand and will rather than a connection to the MCU or not. The X-films at Fox already had their own level of demand so Disney/Marvel could easily put out at least the amount Fox were doing without changing anything. And for eg if Iron Man was unconnected to the MCU they could still do 3 Iron Man films or less or more, while keeping everything else the same. The connection to the MCU itself doesn't determine how many films they can do.

If they want to stay at 3 films a year total or move to only 4 films a year then in that case (regardless of whether X-films are connected to the MCU) the other films would be impacted. But impacted because of a self-imposed restriction rather than any other necessity, and certainly not as a result of being connected to the MCU or not.
Oh I agree with that, it's definitely imposed by Disney. But unless they change that policy, I don't think we'd get much better than we have now. Certainly better movies, but the output I think would be the same, which then gives us odd gaps in time for characters if they're teens (like what Homecoming will be facing).

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Old 05-23-2018, 02:32 PM   #36
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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The shows don't effect the movies, but the movies also don't contradict the show. It's pretty clear what the intent is, especially since Hawkeye, a retired Avenger, is arrested for violating the Accords.

We don't know that Spidey didn't sign the Accords, or that Black Panther didn't. We didn't see any of the followup to the Accords after the attack in Vienna.

The shows haven't dealt with it because they're super heroes fighting in secret, and most people don't know they exist.

AoS is canon until Marvel says otherwise.
It wasn't just Shield, though. This is what the actual movie document said on the cover:


"Framework for the Registration and Deployment of Enhanced Individuals"

Enhanced individuals, not just the Avengers.

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Old 05-23-2018, 03:19 PM   #37
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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We're definitely gonna see a shift in the MCU's alignment soon. It's been SHIELD in one corner, Netflix in the other, and the movies on top.

We've got Cloak & Dagger coming up, and New Warriors after that. Luke Cage, Daredevil, and Iron Fist (and hell, maybe Punisher) will all air their next seasons before Avengers 4. I'm not expecting half the Netflix casts to disintegrate or anything, (but it'd be a hoot), but I feel like 3 seasons would be plenty for the lot of them.

I'm crossing my fingers that they somehow utilize a TV component for both the X-Men and the FF, to take advantage of the more serialized and episodic aspects of their classic stories. I mean, if they're gonna change up how they present the story, might they do it for the First Family AND/OR the Merry Mutants?

Yes, Inhumans really s*** the bed in that respect, but I like to think they learned a lot of lessons there in what not to do. Really all the shows have been pretty experimental (none more than SHIELD I deem), so I look forward to what lessons they apply to their A-listers coming home at last to join the fray.
Something like this wouldn't be bad at all.

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Old 05-23-2018, 03:24 PM   #38
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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Oh I agree with that, it's definitely imposed by Disney. But unless they change that policy, I don't think we'd get much better than we have now. Certainly better movies, but the output I think would be the same, which then gives us odd gaps in time for characters if they're teens (like what Homecoming will be facing).
To be fair the MCU has had a long run so far and they are in a transitional stage where they are likely to lose alot of their big hitters. We arent likely to see Iron Man, Captain America and Thor movies and even GoTG may wrap up with its third. There's going to be holes that will need to be filled, which is where the X-men and FF come in.

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Old 05-23-2018, 04:03 PM   #39
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To be fair the MCU has had a long run so far and they are in a transitional stage where they are likely to lose alot of their big hitters. We arent likely to see Iron Man, Captain America and Thor movies and even GoTG may wrap up with its third. There's going to be holes that will need to be filled, which is where the X-men and FF come in.
Yes, but that's still only one movie every few years. Plus they have other series with upcoming sequels and other series coming up.

And I'm pretty sure Thor is staying around. At least Chris has made it sound like he wants to after the success of Ragnarok.

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Old 05-23-2018, 04:04 PM   #40
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It wasn't just Shield, though. This is what the actual movie document said on the cover:


"Framework for the Registration and Deployment of Enhanced Individuals"

Enhanced individuals, not just the Avengers.
I know, I was arguing that it covers everyone

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Old 05-23-2018, 04:20 PM   #41
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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Yes, but that's still only one movie every few years. Plus they have other series with upcoming sequels and other series coming up.

And I'm pretty sure Thor is staying around. At least Chris has made it sound like he wants to after the success of Ragnarok.
But will that franchise continue? We are seeing more and more team ups and Marvel may kill two birds with one stone by pairing him with someone getting. Like a Captain Marvel or Dr Strange movie with Thor doesn’t sound too crazy for example

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Old 05-23-2018, 04:22 PM   #42
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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Oh I agree with that, it's definitely imposed by Disney. But unless they change that policy, I don't think we'd get much better than we have now. Certainly better movies, but the output I think would be the same, which then gives us odd gaps in time for characters if they're teens (like what Homecoming will be facing).
If they stick to that restriction and get all the Fox rights it won’t be possible to do everything without waiting ages for certain things to happen as you say, yes. I really hope they decide to put out more films per year if they get the rights.

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Old 05-23-2018, 04:22 PM   #43
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Certainly better movies, but the output I think would be the same, which then gives us odd gaps in time for characters if they're teens (like what Homecoming will be facing).
Yeah, let's unpack this. Tom Holland was 19-20 when shooting Homecoming. He'll be 22 when shooting his role as a high school junior. Do we know if Sony is planning to stagger these films at 3-year intervals like most of the MCU franchises, or 2?
Though maybe it's a moot point; if he films the threequel at age 25 and then they do a college trilogy, he'd end up playing a college student as late as 34, but audiences are used to Dawson's Casting like that, right?

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Old 05-23-2018, 04:24 PM   #44
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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Yeah, let's unpack this. Tom Holland was 19-20 when shooting Homecoming. He'll be 22 when shooting his role as a high school junior. Do we know if Sony is planning to stagger these films at 3-year intervals like most of the MCU franchises, or 2?
Though maybe it's a moot point; if he films the threequel at age 25 and then they do a college trilogy, he'd end up playing a college student as late as 34, but audiences are used to Dawson's Casting like that, right?
That's why I generally fancast younger. The X-Men actors can be around the same age as Holland but still play College students.

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Old 05-23-2018, 04:35 PM   #45
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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To be fair the MCU has had a long run so far and they are in a transitional stage where they are likely to lose alot of their big hitters. We arent likely to see Iron Man, Captain America and Thor movies and even GoTG may wrap up with its third. There's going to be holes that will need to be filled, which is where the X-men and FF come in.
They already have ready made replacements for solos with the outgoing big 4 (of which Hulk only got one solo) with Black Panther, Cap Marvel, Dr Strange and Spidey films which might just keep going with the situation with Sony. With F4 and X-Men too I think it’s going to be difficult to stick to only 3 films a year long term, especially as they seem to like throwing in one new property every year too. 4 offers a lot more scope.

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Old 05-23-2018, 04:36 PM   #46
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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Yeah, let's unpack this. Tom Holland was 19-20 when shooting Homecoming. He'll be 22 when shooting his role as a high school junior. Do we know if Sony is planning to stagger these films at 3-year intervals like most of the MCU franchises, or 2?
Though maybe it's a moot point; if he films the threequel at age 25 and then they do a college trilogy, he'd end up playing a college student as late as 34, but audiences are used to Dawson's Casting like that, right?
He’s got one key advantage - the babyface lol.

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Old 05-23-2018, 05:02 PM   #47
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

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Yeah, let's unpack this. Tom Holland was 19-20 when shooting Homecoming. He'll be 22 when shooting his role as a high school junior. Do we know if Sony is planning to stagger these films at 3-year intervals like most of the MCU franchises, or 2?
Though maybe it's a moot point; if he films the threequel at age 25 and then they do a college trilogy, he'd end up playing a college student as late as 34, but audiences are used to Dawson's Casting like that, right?
There's a two year gap between Homecoming and the sequel. I'd expect them to do the same because of the age issue. He does look young, and college age (Physical looks wise) is pretty flexible, so that shouldn't be a problem.

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Old 05-23-2018, 05:56 PM   #48
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But will that franchise continue? We are seeing more and more team ups and Marvel may kill two birds with one stone by pairing him with someone getting. Like a Captain Marvel or Dr Strange movie with Thor doesn’t sound too crazy for example
They may, but I imagine it's Taika and Chris wasn't a sequel, they'll get one. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them continue the franchise with Valkyrie either.

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Old 05-24-2018, 01:39 AM   #49
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Default Re: MCU X-Men - Part 2

I'd watch a Thor and Valkyrie movie.

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Old 05-24-2018, 02:44 AM   #50
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So, I was just watching a video about Neil Sandilands and decided that I'd like to see him get more to do as an actor and thought about the kinda role he could play and then it hit me:

Professor Xavier

He checks my personal preference for Xavier not seeming soft and nice and calm like we've had before too.

Maybe with Oded Fehr as Magneto.

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