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Old 06-27-2005, 09:23 PM   #51
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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Originally Posted by CASHMERE
Oh please! did you not see magneto's face. hello movie Rogue won't stand a chance to movie magneto did she forget that she's in a steel plane.

I've said this before and im going to say it again.. Wolverine got is second powers well sort of. Now Jean is getting Phoenix. I want Supergirl ROGUE and be the "muscle" in fights just like she was in the cartoons. Rogue was my favorite character but i've totally forgotten about her in the movie.
So losing her fear of Magneto doesn't count? She has to have non-wimpy powers to not be a wimp? So Moira MacTaggert (when she was alive) was a wimp, despite standing up to hostile superpowered beings every other day?

But you know what? I say they can use Super-Rogue all they want, so long as they come up with a good reason for her to get her famous spare powers-- and I'm not talking about a 30-second cameo from Ms. Marvel, as some fanatics around the internet seem to think would be a good idea.

"When Rogue joins the Brotherhood, they should fight Ms. Marvel, give the character absolutely no exposition, and have Rogue take her down within 30 seconds of the fight. Oh, and she'll never be seen again in the movie."

As long as nobody says that, fine. She can have the powers. I just don't think they're necessary.

...it's not like anybody is begging for Shadowcat to walk on air and use ninja skills in X3, or anything...

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Old 06-27-2005, 10:28 PM   #52
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Everywhere I go! Everywhere!

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Originally Posted by X-Maniac
No, that's not really it at all. Jean Grey was Marvel Girl in the comics for about 10 years and hundreds of issues of the X-Men before she became Phoenix in the 70s. We can't wait for hundreds of movies before she becomes Phoenix. Things have to be compressed into a smaller timeframe or you'd be dead by the time it got round to being included in a movie!
Thirteen years and 1 month and exactly 100 comics before Jean's transformation to Phoenix, then 5 years and 4 months and 64 comics to her regression, then about 10 years and about 154 more comics until her restoration. Frightening how much I know sometimes, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Nocturnal Madman
"The Phoenix" isn't Jean Grey...

Phoenix is merely a codename, and the Phoenix Force is an entirely different entity. Sure she still posesses it but I don't believe it defines who she is as a person.
The Phoenix Force is a force, not an entity, thus they call it the Phoenix Force and not the Phoenix Entity. It doesnt think, feel or act like an entity would, it simply exists, as a force does. The Phoenix consciousness is a derivitive of its avatar and host. It does nothing more than provide life force and cosmic awareness to the person it resides in. It can reside in any omega mutant, but it belongs to Jean Grey. It is to Jean Grey as Excalibur was to Arthur, not only in the sense that it belonged to him, but in the fact that it was a thing, not an entity. It thinks like Jean thinks, it looks like Jean looks, it acts like Jean acts, it speaks like Jean speaks. It does all of this because it is Jean, and Jean is it. It doesn't change anything you said, it simply clarifies the error in thinking. Separate forms do not separate characters make. The Phoenix tells us it came from Jean, and Jean tells us she can fight and beat the Phoenix because she is the Phoenix.

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No the Phoenix is NOT who Jean Grey is. Jean Grey was Marvel Girl before she became Phoenix and "Marvel Girl" is something else the movies have not included about Jean. Also, don't forget in the original source material (otherwise in reality) Phoenix was not the manifestation of Jean's powers, Jean was possesed by the Phoenix while on a space shuttle.
Marvel Girl would have been a downright ridiculous code name for a 34 year old Doctor to use. And, FYI, Jean Grey was never possessed by anything, even if you account for every retcon ever written. Stop trying to pass off the cartoon as comic cannon and thinking no one will realize it. The original source material stated that Jean Grey died and become a being of pure psionic energy, merging with a primal passion of cosmic awareness and destiny that she called the Phoenix Force. That is, unless, you can prove it says something else between Uncanny X-Men 101 and 137, and just so you know...I've read each and every one of those issues several times, and I know damn well it never says anything you did. Nor do any of the retcons in the comics. The Phoenix Force is nothing more than telepathy and telekinesis. Well, bust my britches if those aren't the same exact powers Jean Grey was born with. Rogue, on the other hand, was born with the power to absorb people's life energy and powers. Super stregnth, flight and all the rest were not a part of who she was. The Phoenix is an aspect of Jean's powers. In order for you to prove what you say is true, I'd like direct quotes from specific comis. I know I can provide plenty to prove my point, and I also know you can't, so that's an end to this one.

Comic retconners who like to insist there is a diference between Jean and Phoenix are probably (one of) the reason(s) they aren't using the name Phoenix in this movie, because they dont want you to think that this is somehow not supposed to be Jean Grey. Turning Jean from a moderate telepath and telekinetic into an insanely powerful telepath and telekinetic are a far cry from turning Rogue from a life/power absorber into Supergirl with a speech impediment.

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Old 06-27-2005, 10:35 PM   #53
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Well thanks for proving my point. Rogue does not need super strength and flight to be Rogue. They're not her powers. They're Ms. Marvels.

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Old 06-27-2005, 10:56 PM   #54
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

it is cool to see Rogue use her real power other than see her carry things 100 times her weight and fly...maybe they could just use her power like temporarily absorb other mutant's power and control it for a short time... like what she did in X2 with Pyro's power... and maybe in X3 she spent a lot time in the danger room and she gets to learn to kick a**...hehehhee

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Old 06-27-2005, 11:07 PM   #55
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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Originally Posted by Gambit03
Well thanks for proving my point. Rogue does not need super strength and flight to be Rogue. They're not her powers. They're Ms. Marvels.
Rogue does not need super strength and flight to be Rogue oh I see so Wolverine doesn't need his claws to be Wolverine?

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Old 06-27-2005, 11:13 PM   #56
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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Rogue does not need super strength and flight to be Rogue oh I see so Wolverine doesn't need his claws to be Wolverine?
Actually, no. But Wolverine is a more popular character. Even people who are unfamiliar with X Men know the "Dude with the claws". Wich make them his defining attributes. While in Rogues case, people who dont know X Men know her as that chick with the white streak, not the chick with the super strength.

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Old 06-27-2005, 11:27 PM   #57
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

personally, Rogue is better without her super strength and flight powers... its is more interesting to see her use her absorbing power in a battle scene...

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Old 06-27-2005, 11:30 PM   #58
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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Rogue does not need super strength and flight to be Rogue oh I see so Wolverine doesn't need his claws to be Wolverine?
That's a false analogy. Wolverine's claws are his own. He was born with them, and they are a mutation. It's the metal that was given to him.

Rogue didn't mutate into a super-strong, flying woman naturally. She copied that power, and it stayed with her. Bad analogy.

A more appropriate one would be if Mimic from the Exiles lost every permenantly copied power we were familiar with(steel skin, flight, optic blasts, bone claws/healing factor) and started copying temporary powers all the time.

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Old 06-27-2005, 11:42 PM   #59
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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That's a false analogy. Wolverine's claws are his own. He was born with them, and they are a mutation. It's the metal that was given to him.
what the heck? he was born with his claws?

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Old 06-27-2005, 11:45 PM   #60
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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Originally Posted by Gambit03
Actually, no. But Wolverine is a more popular character. Even people who are unfamiliar with X Men know the "Dude with the claws". Wich make them his defining attributes. While in Rogues case, people who dont know X Men know her as that chick with the white streak, not the chick with the super strength.
right. im glad to know you've talked to everyone

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Old 06-27-2005, 11:47 PM   #61
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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personally, Rogue is better without her super strength and flight powers... its is more interesting to see her use her absorbing power in a battle scene...
have you seen her in any battle scenes? she's always pushed or left behind cause she's frail.

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Old 06-27-2005, 11:49 PM   #62
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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what the heck? he was born with his claws?
Yep. James Howlett's mutation not only involved an advanced healing ability, but bone-claws that protrude from the backs of his hands. When his claws first appeared, he accidentally killed a man. He took on the name Logan, ran away from home, and eventually became the Wolverine we all know and love today.

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Old 06-27-2005, 11:53 PM   #63
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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Yep. James Howlett's mutation not only involved an advanced healing ability, but bone-claws that protrude from the backs of his hands. When his claws first appeared, he accidentally killed a man. He took on the name Logan, ran away from home, and eventually became the Wolverine we all know and love today.
This is not the history in the movie. i don't kow where this came from but the only history i know of Wolverine is Weapon X gave him the claws.

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Old 06-28-2005, 12:11 AM   #64
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This is not the history in the movie. i don't kow where this came from but the only history i know of Wolverine is Weapon X gave him the claws.
It's part of Wolverine's origin in the comics. I think it was revealed in a mini-series a while back, just for the sake of revealing who Logan was before all of the crap with Department H and Weapon X. Logan himself doesn't even remember this.

Also, during some point in the comics in the 1990s, Magneto ripped the adamantium out of Logan's skeleton, leaving him with normal bones. During this time, the claws that came out of his hands were made of very sharp bones, and he was more wild than ever. Through the magic of Plot Device, adamantium was grafted to his skeleton again.

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Old 06-28-2005, 12:14 AM   #65
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

I hope Rogue steel someone's powers in X-3 and they become her new powers permanently.

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Old 06-28-2005, 05:47 AM   #66
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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Originally Posted by CASHMERE
This is not the history in the movie. i don't kow where this came from but the only history i know of Wolverine is Weapon X gave him the claws.
As Manic said, Magneto ripped the adamantium from Logans skeleton leaving him feral and wild. It didn't take Marvel long to realise that taking away the adamantium/claws took away one of the most important things about Wolverine so they suddenly invented the bone claws and made them randomly appear.

The "Origin" mini series spoken about, was partly to explain the existance of these bone claws and why he'd forgotten about them.

The admantium was restored to Wolverine by Apocalypse, who made Wolverine into one of his new four horsemen. (Death of course)


You are right though, this isn't the history in the movies, the claws are entirely man made. They are not at all the right shape to be bones underneath, they are just blades.

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Old 06-28-2005, 07:04 AM   #67
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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have you seen her in any battle scenes? she's always pushed or left behind cause she's frail.
i'm hoping to see her fight using her stealing powers in X-men 3... and obviously I haven't seen it because the movie is not shown or even filmed yet...

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Old 06-28-2005, 10:53 AM   #68
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

A Rogue v Mystique scene would be cool....Rogue steals her powers and then you have two people changing into people all of the time. You dont know who's who...until one is knocked out.

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Old 06-28-2005, 11:43 AM   #69
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

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Originally Posted by duo_gabo
personally, Rogue is better without her super strength and flight powers... its is more interesting to see her use her absorbing power in a battle scene...
It would be if she ever actually used them in an interesting fashion. In X1 she used it on Wolverine in order to heal, and this was a slightly underwhelming plot device to show Rogue's powers. In X2 she used her powers to calm down Pyro's mess. Again, uninspiring. If they aren't going to give her Ms Marvel powers, at least give her something interesting to do with her current powers. There's so much more potential than what we've been given so far.

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Old 06-28-2005, 05:17 PM   #70
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Remember, too, that movie Rogue is still a novice with her powers. Even in the comics, the first time we saw Rogue she had been used to them for some time, long enough to absorb Ms. Marvel. Movie Rogue is an entirely different thing. She knocked out David in the first movie because the powers had been just sitting there, not activated. So they packed some extra punch. It took her longer every other time possibly because she was still so unsure of using them.

Maybe in this next movie, she will be less trepidacious. The big difference between the Rogues, be it Movie Rogue, Comics Rogue, TAS Rogue, Evo Rogue, etc... is training. They are all at different levels of comfort in the use of their powers, and it is visble by the way that they behave. Movie Rogue has had no training whatsoever, and therefore she is incredibly timid at first, even going as far as running away. By the second movie, she is a little bit more sure of her powers and allows herself to get close to people and even starts in with the threatening people by taking off a glove. Maybe in the third movie, we'll see that even more developed.

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Old 06-28-2005, 05:46 PM   #71
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Also, think about this: Why would movie Rogue even WANT to use her powers except when she is forced to? (Wolverine, Pyro)

We saw how traumatised she was by still "feeling" Wolvie and her boyfriend inside her head (train scene, X1)

I wanna see her let loose with her powers, but not just for the sake of it. It needs to fit the story....

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Old 06-28-2005, 05:47 PM   #72
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Exactly.

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Old 06-28-2005, 06:02 PM   #73
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I liked the Rogue we saw in X1 and X2 but that is not her! I think that Rogue has to have Carol's powers in X3 and change to her real conduct!!!

 
Old 06-28-2005, 06:03 PM   #74
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or..... not

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Old 06-28-2005, 06:08 PM   #75
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Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

it's not Carol Danvers that made Rogue who she was. It was her attitude. Sure, having those powers helped, but she was even Rogueish before she got them.

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