The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

[Manic]

To say that Rogue's character is defined by having Ms. Marvel's powers is ridiculous. Read the last arcs of X-Treme X-Men; Rogue went into battle without any powers, and people still had a hard time taking her on.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Quing

it's not Carol Danvers that made Rogue who she was. It was her attitude. Sure, having those powers helped, but she was even Rogueish before she got them.

Ahh, I see your point. But movie Rogue is ment to play the young scared mutant that is just coming into her powers.
By this time in the movies however, im sure she should be a little bit more agressive. If Kitty is coming into this movie to get between Rogue and Iceman, then Rogue shouldnt be so passive.

[Almighty Pejo]

I think, if Kitty becomes a wedge between Rogue and Iceman, it would be funny to see the two of them have to work together. Kitty should phase Rogue so she can get into a position to touch Juggernaut, thus temporarily giving her super strength. She'll punch through some walls or something so all the fanboys can have their moments of fangasms. But then, as it should, she'll lose his strength, but she won't know it at first, and she punches a wall right hard and shatters her fist. Just cause it would be funny.

[CASHMERE]

Best Rogue ever was Super Girl Rogue. someone in this board said she had those powers for 20 years thats 20 years of history.

[Quing]

Rogue right before her powers manifested


Rogue pretty much right after her powers manifested, scared silly but still threatening Mystique with a shotgun


Rogue well after her powers manifested, still being Rogueish.

So... she was pretty much like that even before she got Ms. Marvel's powers.

[choki]

well, the movie version Rogue should be given her own way to develop. The constant idea of X1, X2 is to show how insecure Rogue felt about her powers. She sees it as a curse rather than a gift. That mentality starts to change abit in X2 when she knew she could use her powers to prevent greater destruction (eg. absorbing Pyro to control fire) z

Surely, her absorbing powers would come to a greater use in X3. She doesn't really need superhuman strength and flight to shine. The ability to absorb other mutants' powers should be her true strength.

[FieryBalrog]

Originally Posted by NocturnalMadman

"The Phoenix" isn't Jean Grey...

Phoenix is merely a codename, and the Phoenix Force is an entirely different entity.

you are wrong. Every recent comic involving the two has stated that they are one being and/or extensions of each other. (Phoenix: Endsong, New X-men, older hints in Uncanny and Wolverine).

Originally Posted by Mistopurr83

No the Phoenix is NOT who Jean Grey is. Jean Grey was Marvel Girl before she became Phoenix and "Marvel Girl" is something else the movies have not included about Jean. Also, don't forget in the original source material (otherwise in reality) Phoenix was not the manifestation of Jean's powers, Jean was possesed by the Phoenix while on a space shuttle.

The cartoon is not the original source material, thank you very much. (The whole concept of possession gives it away entirely, because it originates from the cartoon). Direct quote from the original source material, the comics, X-men 136- "She is Dark Phoenix. But she is Jean Grey." Playing up the paradox of what she once was (gentle, good natured etc) and what she became (callous, purely selfish, etc.) In fact the running theme of the original Dark Phoenix saga, as written in the comics (and semi-restored by Claremont's backstories, as well as the most recent material) was the conflict between the human being (Jean) and the god-like expansion of her powers.

Numerous characters- from Prof X, to the narrator, to the Watcher at the end, set out this main theme in their comments.

[duo_gabo]

Originally Posted by Avalanche

If they aren't going to give her Ms Marvel powers, at least give her something interesting to do with her current powers. There's so much more potential than what we've been given so far.

I agree...

[Mistopurr83]

Originally Posted by CASHMERE

Best Rogue ever was Super Girl Rogue. someone in this board said she had those powers for 20 years thats 20 years of history.

It was I who said that on this thread earlier. People also don't seem to realize that not only did Rogue have it for 20+ years in the comics, she started out with those powers in the comics as well!!! Rogue made her very first appearance in the Avengers Annual #10 in 1981 and that was the issue where she permanately absorbed Ms. Marvel! While her days before that issue were told in flashbacks! It gave her more attitude basically and it became essential to her character. Marvel did this to show how a dynamic character can really be.
The movie Rogue is really just a duplication/clone of the old comic's Kitty Pryde. In the early '80's (if I recall correctly here) Kitty Pryde was the one who started out as a scared young mutant who wasn't going with the adults on dangerous missions. The same goes for Jubilee! Rogue was suppost to be her own character who had nothing in common with them.
If the movie Rogue was to be developed in the order of events based on her comic history, than she should've gone from being a runaway, to a brotherhood member and than to an x-woman (just like the gradual transformation Annakin Skywalker went through in Episodes 1-3). This could've been a great sub-plot easily told in 3 parts for god sakes!
I don't know what else to say but I wish people around her would stop making up excuses for the movie Rogue b/c this is NOT the "real" Rogue is! For me, accuracy is more important than some so called "reality" that doesn't exist!

[Endeavor]

Originally Posted by pejo

... But then, as it should, she'll lose his strength, but she won't know it at first, and she punches a wall right hard and shatters her fist. Just cause it would be funny.

LOL!

[Mistopurr83]

Originally Posted by FieryBalrog

you are wrong. Every recent comic involving the two has stated that they are one being and/or extensions of each other. (Phoenix: Endsong, New X-men, older hints in Uncanny and Wolverine).



The cartoon is not the original source material, thank you very much. (The whole concept of possession gives it away entirely, because it originates from the cartoon). Direct quote from the original source material, the comics, X-men 136- "She is Dark Phoenix. But she is Jean Grey." Playing up the paradox of what she once was (gentle, good natured etc) and what she became (callous, purely selfish, etc.) In fact the running theme of the original Dark Phoenix saga, as written in the comics (and semi-restored by Claremont's backstories, as well as the most recent material) was the conflict between the human being (Jean) and the god-like expansion of her powers.

Excuse me but I did NOT say the cartoon was the original source material! During the Pheonix saga in the comics Jean Grey was possesed by Pheonix (this showed the two are NOT one and the same)! Once again in the Pheonix Endsong issues Jean's dead corpse was brought back and possesed by Pheonix. The Pheonix was still within Jean while her powers were going beserk during the Dark Pheonix saga (that did NOT make them the same character).

[Endeavor]

Originally Posted by Mistopurr83

Excuse me but I did NOT say the cartoon was the original source material! During the Pheonix saga in the comics Jean Grey was possesed by Pheonix (this showed the two are NOT one and the same)! Once again in the Pheonix Endsong issues Jean's dead corpse was brought back and possesed by Pheonix. The Pheonix was still within Jean while her powers were going beserk during the Dark Pheonix saga (that did NOT make them the same character).

Misto, you are either confused or are blatantly ignoring parts of both the original Phoenix story and the recent stories such as Endsong.
First, as any semi-knowledgeable X-Men fan knows, the whole Phoenix Force/Alien entity thing is the result of a retcon. The original story showed Phoenix as the transformation Jean went through when her powers developed to their full potential. There's no getting away from that one, no matter how much alien mythology and magical crappola was later added.
That's been recently reinforced and the true nature of Phoenix has been taken back to a semblance of what it originally was. If you did not understand from Endsong that Jean and the Phoenix are ONE, then you are seriouly lacking in reading comprehension my friend

[Mistopurr83]

Originally Posted by Endeavor

Misto, you are either confused or are blatantly ignoring parts of both the original Phoenix story and the recent stories such as Endsong.
First, as any semi-knowledgeable X-Men fan knows, the whole Phoenix Force/Alien entity thing is the result of a retcon. The original story showed Phoenix as the transformation Jean went through when her powers developed to their full potential. There's no getting away from that one, no matter how much alien mythology and magical crappola was later added.
That's been recently reinforced and the true nature of Phoenix has been taken back to a semblance of what it originally was. If you did not understand from Endsong that Jean and the Phoenix are ONE, then you are seriouly lacking in reading comprehension my friend

But dude when people like you say Jean and Pheonix are one it's an opinion. I haven't seen the exact words saying that they are one and the same in the comic dialogue. Also, Marvel doesn't tell us themselves if the two are suppost to be one or not. They simply leave that for us to guess.
If Pheonix is one with Jean as you say, than when Rogue permantely abosorbed Ms. Marvel, she became one with Rogue. After Rogue absorbed Ms. Marvel she had her mind and body tapped inside of Rogue's mind and body. So Ms. Marvel continue to be one with Rogue even though Xavier erased her memories of it happening. That's something Jean and Rogue have in common. Pheonix didn't enter Jean's body until later in her life and Ms. Marvel didn't enter Rogue's body until later in her life. It's almost the same idea in fact.

[FieryBalrog]

This should really be in the Jean Grey/Phoenix thread, but I'll take on last shot here

Originally Posted by Mistopurr83

But dude when people like you say Jean and Pheonix are one it's an opinion. I haven't seen the exact words saying that they are one and the same in the comic dialogue.

when you dont read the relevant comics, how are you going to know whats going on?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ayne/SONG2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ayne/SONG3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...yne/SONG12.jpg


quotes, in case you cant read it, its a little blurry at times:

Phoenix: "Jean Grey, how do you do that [survive being frozen 50 feet down and come out] without me? Without my power?"

Jean: "I am you. Don't you remember? Now get out of that stupid body."

(Jean rips out the Phoenix from Emma)
later


Phoenix: "Because you and I are one."


Earlier the Shi'ar refer to them as the same "self", Emma addresses Jean as "practically infinite, part of the universe". Etc.

Originally Posted by Mistopurr83

Pheonix didn't enter Jean's body until later in her life and Ms. Marvel didn't enter Rogue's body until later in her life. It's almost the same idea in fact.

once again, you are completely mistaken. Have you ever read any of the X-men backstories? Jean first manifests the Phoenix raptor when shes 11. Thats 7 years before she even joins the X-men.

Originally Posted by Mistopurr83

Excuse me but I did NOT say the cartoon was the original source material! During the Pheonix saga in the comics Jean Grey was possesed by Pheonix (this showed the two are NOT one and the same)! Once again in the Pheonix Endsong issues Jean's dead corpse was brought back and possesed by Pheonix. The Pheonix was still within Jean while her powers were going beserk during the Dark Pheonix saga (that did NOT make them the same character).

I dont think youve actually read the Dark Phoenix saga, because numerous characters, including the narrator and the Watcher, proclaim them to be one and the same, extensions of each other. In fact thats the major THEME of the story, which the Watcher comments on at the end.


There is no alien entity in the original story, and since the retcon its been gradually moved back to the original story (the Endsong scans are from 2 months ago).

[Mistopurr83]

I don't wanna continue with this anymore.

[RepoGuy]

I don't like Paquin that much. She doesn't have Rouge's southern charm. She really doesn't even have the accent.

[Almighty Pejo]

Originally Posted by Mistopurr83

I don't wanna continue with this anymore.

People who are proven wrong never do.

[Mistopurr83]

Originally Posted by pejo

People who are proven wrong never do.

I NEVER said the two were not one and the same for a fact!
It's not true what you say anyway.

[JP]

Oh lord.

[CASHMERE]

anyways back to Rogue....

[Stripesy Strip]

Originally Posted by RepoGuy

I don't like Paquin that much. She doesn't have Rouge's southern charm. She really doesn't even have the accent.

Paquin is Kitty without the smarts and with different powers. Bryan Singer said she was pretty much Kitty but he prefered Rogue`s power wich is a great allegory for teenagers with hormomes kicking in, being disgusted in your body changing, etc...

[Endeavor]

Not really about the movie but can any of you give me a quick 411 on Rogue in the comics now? Last thing I read about her was when she lost her powers during the ending run of X-treme, but I think she got them back... right?

[Almighty Pejo]

Originally Posted by Mistopurr83

I NEVER said the two were not one and the same for a fact!

Yes you did, so I showed you you were wrong an provided actual facts to say they were.

It's not true what you say anyway.

Oh, yes...silly me. What on Earth was I thinking by using facts from the comic books to prove my point? I should have known things are only true when you make them up.

[duo_gabo]

I think what they did with Rogue in X1 was really smart... though i think someone might disagree with me... hehe... thats just me...

but on X2, she get to control it but in a way that some of the fans did not like how it was used....

hopefully in X3, we get to see her use her powers...

hopefully ratner could pull this movie off... im more worried with the director...

[FieryBalrog]

Originally Posted by duo_gabo

I think what they did with Rogue in X1 was really smart... though i think someone might disagree with me... hehe... thats just me...

but on X2, she get to control it but in a way that some of the fans did not like how it was used....

hopefully in X3, we get to see her use her powers...

hopefully ratner could pull this movie off... im more worried with the director...

I also liked the way they handled her character in both the movies. I've never been really a fan of the brash Southern belle she often is in the comics, but I liked her portrayal in Evolution and the movies, which seem to me more like how a girl with her powers would behave.