The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > X-Men > X-Men 1, 2 & 3

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-28-2005, 06:12 PM   #76
Manic
User title? USER TITLE?!
 
Manic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 35,643
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

To say that Rogue's character is defined by having Ms. Marvel's powers is ridiculous. Read the last arcs of X-Treme X-Men; Rogue went into battle without any powers, and people still had a hard time taking her on.

Manic is offline  
Old 06-28-2005, 06:15 PM   #77
JP
Smelly
 
JP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 53,236
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quing
it's not Carol Danvers that made Rogue who she was. It was her attitude. Sure, having those powers helped, but she was even Rogueish before she got them.
Ahh, I see your point. But movie Rogue is ment to play the young scared mutant that is just coming into her powers.
By this time in the movies however, im sure she should be a little bit more agressive. If Kitty is coming into this movie to get between Rogue and Iceman, then Rogue shouldnt be so passive.

JP is online now  
Old 06-28-2005, 08:05 PM   #78
Almighty Pejo
Side-Kick
 
Almighty Pejo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Far Away From Here
Posts: 4,486
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

I think, if Kitty becomes a wedge between Rogue and Iceman, it would be funny to see the two of them have to work together. Kitty should phase Rogue so she can get into a position to touch Juggernaut, thus temporarily giving her super strength. She'll punch through some walls or something so all the fanboys can have their moments of fangasms. But then, as it should, she'll lose his strength, but she won't know it at first, and she punches a wall right hard and shatters her fist. Just cause it would be funny.

__________________
Jean Grey, how did you do that? Without me, without my power...
I am you. Don't you remember?
Now get out of that stupid body.
Because you and I are one.


"I'm always Jean. And I'm always the Phoenix."
Almighty Pejo is offline  
Old 06-28-2005, 08:12 PM   #79
CASHMERE
Side-Kick
 
CASHMERE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rolling in Cashmere
Posts: 1,407
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Best Rogue ever was Super Girl Rogue. someone in this board said she had those powers for 20 years thats 20 years of history.

CASHMERE is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 01:41 AM   #80
Quing
Side-Kick
 
Quing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Over the moon
Posts: 1,442
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread


Rogue right before her powers manifested


Rogue pretty much right after her powers manifested, scared silly but still threatening Mystique with a shotgun


Rogue well after her powers manifested, still being Rogueish.

So... she was pretty much like that even before she got Ms. Marvel's powers.

__________________
4 out of 5 doctors agree, I am totally insane.
Quing is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 02:07 AM   #81
choki
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sunny Island
Posts: 51
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

well, the movie version Rogue should be given her own way to develop. The constant idea of X1, X2 is to show how insecure Rogue felt about her powers. She sees it as a curse rather than a gift. That mentality starts to change abit in X2 when she knew she could use her powers to prevent greater destruction (eg. absorbing Pyro to control fire) z

Surely, her absorbing powers would come to a greater use in X3. She doesn't really need superhuman strength and flight to shine. The ability to absorb other mutants' powers should be her true strength.

choki is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 02:34 AM   #82
FieryBalrog
Side-Kick
 
FieryBalrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,438
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NocturnalMadman
"The Phoenix" isn't Jean Grey...

Phoenix is merely a codename, and the Phoenix Force is an entirely different entity.
you are wrong. Every recent comic involving the two has stated that they are one being and/or extensions of each other. (Phoenix: Endsong, New X-men, older hints in Uncanny and Wolverine).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistopurr83
No the Phoenix is NOT who Jean Grey is. Jean Grey was Marvel Girl before she became Phoenix and "Marvel Girl" is something else the movies have not included about Jean. Also, don't forget in the original source material (otherwise in reality) Phoenix was not the manifestation of Jean's powers, Jean was possesed by the Phoenix while on a space shuttle.
The cartoon is not the original source material, thank you very much. (The whole concept of possession gives it away entirely, because it originates from the cartoon). Direct quote from the original source material, the comics, X-men 136- "She is Dark Phoenix. But she is Jean Grey." Playing up the paradox of what she once was (gentle, good natured etc) and what she became (callous, purely selfish, etc.) In fact the running theme of the original Dark Phoenix saga, as written in the comics (and semi-restored by Claremont's backstories, as well as the most recent material) was the conflict between the human being (Jean) and the god-like expansion of her powers.

Numerous characters- from Prof X, to the narrator, to the Watcher at the end, set out this main theme in their comments.

FieryBalrog is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 06:42 AM   #83
duo_gabo
Side-Kick
 
duo_gabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Philippines
Posts: 670
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalanche
If they aren't going to give her Ms Marvel powers, at least give her something interesting to do with her current powers. There's so much more potential than what we've been given so far.

I agree...

__________________
Things I do for living....
1)breathing...
2)exercise
3)watching comic book movies.....
duo_gabo is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 10:55 AM   #84
Mistopurr83
Side-Kick
 
Mistopurr83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,576
Exclamation Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by CASHMERE
Best Rogue ever was Super Girl Rogue. someone in this board said she had those powers for 20 years thats 20 years of history.
It was I who said that on this thread earlier. People also don't seem to realize that not only did Rogue have it for 20+ years in the comics, she started out with those powers in the comics as well!!! Rogue made her very first appearance in the Avengers Annual #10 in 1981 and that was the issue where she permanately absorbed Ms. Marvel! While her days before that issue were told in flashbacks! It gave her more attitude basically and it became essential to her character. Marvel did this to show how a dynamic character can really be.
The movie Rogue is really just a duplication/clone of the old comic's Kitty Pryde. In the early '80's (if I recall correctly here) Kitty Pryde was the one who started out as a scared young mutant who wasn't going with the adults on dangerous missions. The same goes for Jubilee! Rogue was suppost to be her own character who had nothing in common with them.
If the movie Rogue was to be developed in the order of events based on her comic history, than she should've gone from being a runaway, to a brotherhood member and than to an x-woman (just like the gradual transformation Annakin Skywalker went through in Episodes 1-3). This could've been a great sub-plot easily told in 3 parts for god sakes!
I don't know what else to say but I wish people around her would stop making up excuses for the movie Rogue b/c this is NOT the "real" Rogue is! For me, accuracy is more important than some so called "reality" that doesn't exist!

Mistopurr83 is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 10:59 AM   #85
Endeavor
Que bolá con el timbeque?
 
Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: FL
Posts: 6,208
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by pejo
... But then, as it should, she'll lose his strength, but she won't know it at first, and she punches a wall right hard and shatters her fist. Just cause it would be funny.
LOL!

Endeavor is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 11:00 AM   #86
Mistopurr83
Side-Kick
 
Mistopurr83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,576
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by FieryBalrog
you are wrong. Every recent comic involving the two has stated that they are one being and/or extensions of each other. (Phoenix: Endsong, New X-men, older hints in Uncanny and Wolverine).



The cartoon is not the original source material, thank you very much. (The whole concept of possession gives it away entirely, because it originates from the cartoon). Direct quote from the original source material, the comics, X-men 136- "She is Dark Phoenix. But she is Jean Grey." Playing up the paradox of what she once was (gentle, good natured etc) and what she became (callous, purely selfish, etc.) In fact the running theme of the original Dark Phoenix saga, as written in the comics (and semi-restored by Claremont's backstories, as well as the most recent material) was the conflict between the human being (Jean) and the god-like expansion of her powers.
Excuse me but I did NOT say the cartoon was the original source material! During the Pheonix saga in the comics Jean Grey was possesed by Pheonix (this showed the two are NOT one and the same)! Once again in the Pheonix Endsong issues Jean's dead corpse was brought back and possesed by Pheonix. The Pheonix was still within Jean while her powers were going beserk during the Dark Pheonix saga (that did NOT make them the same character).

Mistopurr83 is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 11:09 AM   #87
Endeavor
Que bolá con el timbeque?
 
Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: FL
Posts: 6,208
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistopurr83
Excuse me but I did NOT say the cartoon was the original source material! During the Pheonix saga in the comics Jean Grey was possesed by Pheonix (this showed the two are NOT one and the same)! Once again in the Pheonix Endsong issues Jean's dead corpse was brought back and possesed by Pheonix. The Pheonix was still within Jean while her powers were going beserk during the Dark Pheonix saga (that did NOT make them the same character).
Misto, you are either confused or are blatantly ignoring parts of both the original Phoenix story and the recent stories such as Endsong.
First, as any semi-knowledgeable X-Men fan knows, the whole Phoenix Force/Alien entity thing is the result of a retcon. The original story showed Phoenix as the transformation Jean went through when her powers developed to their full potential. There's no getting away from that one, no matter how much alien mythology and magical crappola was later added.
That's been recently reinforced and the true nature of Phoenix has been taken back to a semblance of what it originally was. If you did not understand from Endsong that Jean and the Phoenix are ONE, then you are seriouly lacking in reading comprehension my friend

Endeavor is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 11:36 AM   #88
Mistopurr83
Side-Kick
 
Mistopurr83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,576
Exclamation Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endeavor
Misto, you are either confused or are blatantly ignoring parts of both the original Phoenix story and the recent stories such as Endsong.
First, as any semi-knowledgeable X-Men fan knows, the whole Phoenix Force/Alien entity thing is the result of a retcon. The original story showed Phoenix as the transformation Jean went through when her powers developed to their full potential. There's no getting away from that one, no matter how much alien mythology and magical crappola was later added.
That's been recently reinforced and the true nature of Phoenix has been taken back to a semblance of what it originally was. If you did not understand from Endsong that Jean and the Phoenix are ONE, then you are seriouly lacking in reading comprehension my friend
But dude when people like you say Jean and Pheonix are one it's an opinion. I haven't seen the exact words saying that they are one and the same in the comic dialogue. Also, Marvel doesn't tell us themselves if the two are suppost to be one or not. They simply leave that for us to guess.
If Pheonix is one with Jean as you say, than when Rogue permantely abosorbed Ms. Marvel, she became one with Rogue. After Rogue absorbed Ms. Marvel she had her mind and body tapped inside of Rogue's mind and body. So Ms. Marvel continue to be one with Rogue even though Xavier erased her memories of it happening. That's something Jean and Rogue have in common. Pheonix didn't enter Jean's body until later in her life and Ms. Marvel didn't enter Rogue's body until later in her life. It's almost the same idea in fact.

Mistopurr83 is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 02:13 PM   #89
FieryBalrog
Side-Kick
 
FieryBalrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,438
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

This should really be in the Jean Grey/Phoenix thread, but I'll take on last shot here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistopurr83
But dude when people like you say Jean and Pheonix are one it's an opinion. I haven't seen the exact words saying that they are one and the same in the comic dialogue.
when you dont read the relevant comics, how are you going to know whats going on?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ayne/SONG2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ayne/SONG3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...yne/SONG12.jpg


quotes, in case you cant read it, its a little blurry at times:

Phoenix: "Jean Grey, how do you do that [survive being frozen 50 feet down and come out] without me? Without my power?"

Jean: "I am you. Don't you remember? Now get out of that stupid body."

(Jean rips out the Phoenix from Emma)
later


Phoenix: "Because you and I are one."


Earlier the Shi'ar refer to them as the same "self", Emma addresses Jean as "practically infinite, part of the universe". Etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistopurr83
Pheonix didn't enter Jean's body until later in her life and Ms. Marvel didn't enter Rogue's body until later in her life. It's almost the same idea in fact.
once again, you are completely mistaken. Have you ever read any of the X-men backstories? Jean first manifests the Phoenix raptor when shes 11. Thats 7 years before she even joins the X-men.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistopurr83
Excuse me but I did NOT say the cartoon was the original source material! During the Pheonix saga in the comics Jean Grey was possesed by Pheonix (this showed the two are NOT one and the same)! Once again in the Pheonix Endsong issues Jean's dead corpse was brought back and possesed by Pheonix. The Pheonix was still within Jean while her powers were going beserk during the Dark Pheonix saga (that did NOT make them the same character).


I dont think youve actually read the Dark Phoenix saga, because numerous characters, including the narrator and the Watcher, proclaim them to be one and the same, extensions of each other. In fact thats the major THEME of the story, which the Watcher comments on at the end.


There is no alien entity in the original story, and since the retcon its been gradually moved back to the original story (the Endsong scans are from 2 months ago).


Last edited by FieryBalrog; 06-29-2005 at 02:22 PM.
FieryBalrog is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 02:59 PM   #90
Mistopurr83
Side-Kick
 
Mistopurr83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,576
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

I don't wanna continue with this anymore.

Mistopurr83 is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 03:12 PM   #91
RepoGuy
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Somewhere where it's always warm
Posts: 84
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

I don't like Paquin that much. She doesn't have Rouge's southern charm. She really doesn't even have the accent.

RepoGuy is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 05:12 PM   #92
Almighty Pejo
Side-Kick
 
Almighty Pejo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Far Away From Here
Posts: 4,486
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistopurr83
I don't wanna continue with this anymore.
People who are proven wrong never do.

__________________
Jean Grey, how did you do that? Without me, without my power...
I am you. Don't you remember?
Now get out of that stupid body.
Because you and I are one.


"I'm always Jean. And I'm always the Phoenix."
Almighty Pejo is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 05:17 PM   #93
Mistopurr83
Side-Kick
 
Mistopurr83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,576
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by pejo
People who are proven wrong never do.
I NEVER said the two were not one and the same for a fact!
It's not true what you say anyway.

Mistopurr83 is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 05:18 PM   #94
JP
Smelly
 
JP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 53,236
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Oh lord.

JP is online now  
Old 06-29-2005, 05:48 PM   #95
CASHMERE
Side-Kick
 
CASHMERE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rolling in Cashmere
Posts: 1,407
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

anyways back to Rogue....

CASHMERE is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 06:19 PM   #96
Stripesy Strip
Eat That, Jimmy Olsen!
 
Stripesy Strip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 841
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RepoGuy
I don't like Paquin that much. She doesn't have Rouge's southern charm. She really doesn't even have the accent.
Paquin is Kitty without the smarts and with different powers. Bryan Singer said she was pretty much Kitty but he prefered Rogue`s power wich is a great allegory for teenagers with hormomes kicking in, being disgusted in your body changing, etc...

Stripesy Strip is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 06:20 PM   #97
Endeavor
Que bolá con el timbeque?
 
Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: FL
Posts: 6,208
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Not really about the movie but can any of you give me a quick 411 on Rogue in the comics now? Last thing I read about her was when she lost her powers during the ending run of X-treme, but I think she got them back... right?

Endeavor is offline  
Old 06-29-2005, 06:33 PM   #98
Almighty Pejo
Side-Kick
 
Almighty Pejo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Far Away From Here
Posts: 4,486
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistopurr83
I NEVER said the two were not one and the same for a fact!
Yes you did, so I showed you you were wrong an provided actual facts to say they were.
Quote:
It's not true what you say anyway.
Oh, yes...silly me. What on Earth was I thinking by using facts from the comic books to prove my point? I should have known things are only true when you make them up.

__________________
Jean Grey, how did you do that? Without me, without my power...
I am you. Don't you remember?
Now get out of that stupid body.
Because you and I are one.


"I'm always Jean. And I'm always the Phoenix."
Almighty Pejo is offline  
Old 06-30-2005, 01:41 AM   #99
duo_gabo
Side-Kick
 
duo_gabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Philippines
Posts: 670
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

I think what they did with Rogue in X1 was really smart... though i think someone might disagree with me... hehe... thats just me...

but on X2, she get to control it but in a way that some of the fans did not like how it was used....

hopefully in X3, we get to see her use her powers...

hopefully ratner could pull this movie off... im more worried with the director...

__________________
Things I do for living....
1)breathing...
2)exercise
3)watching comic book movies.....

Last edited by duo_gabo; 06-30-2005 at 01:44 AM.
duo_gabo is offline  
Old 06-30-2005, 02:50 AM   #100
FieryBalrog
Side-Kick
 
FieryBalrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,438
Default Re: The Official Rogue/Anna X3 Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by duo_gabo
I think what they did with Rogue in X1 was really smart... though i think someone might disagree with me... hehe... thats just me...

but on X2, she get to control it but in a way that some of the fans did not like how it was used....

hopefully in X3, we get to see her use her powers...

hopefully ratner could pull this movie off... im more worried with the director...
I also liked the way they handled her character in both the movies. I've never been really a fan of the brash Southern belle she often is in the comics, but I liked her portrayal in Evolution and the movies, which seem to me more like how a girl with her powers would behave.

FieryBalrog is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.