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View Poll Results: Human Torch Vs Ice Man
Johnny Storm 61 57.55%
Bobby Drake 37 34.91%
Draw 8 7.55%
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:55 AM   #51
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

I'm still surprised we have so many people who voted for Storm, I guess not as many people stopped to think about it or understand the extent of just how powerful Bobby is...

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Old 07-14-2005, 01:25 AM   #52
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

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Originally Posted by SuGarRush
I'm still surprised we have so many people who voted for Storm, I guess not as many people stopped to think about it or understand the extent of just how powerful Bobby is...
You expect people to listen and take stated facts at face value around here? Hehhehehee, ahh...

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Old 07-14-2005, 05:11 AM   #53
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

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You expect people to listen and take stated facts at face value around here? Hehhehehee, ahh...
that would like asking some people on here not to complian about something that isnt out yet.

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Old 07-14-2005, 06:22 AM   #54
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

You think the movie boards are bad, go into The Hulk boards for five minutes. I dare you.

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Old 07-14-2005, 08:49 AM   #55
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varient
To be clear:
"Iceman" "Controls Heat" in a localized area.

Everything he does involves being able to gather moisture from the air and freeze it.

VERY INTENSE POWER BECAUSE:
Imagine how much water it takes to make an "Ice Slide" or heck,.. An "Ice Bat"
That amount of water, (which he pulls from the air), would easily cover the entire floor of an office building as moisture is normally distributed in atmosphere, (More near ocean,..less in desert, but you get the idea.)
Yet he's able to collect it quickly and either make an iceslide for transport, a tool for a fight or freeze you,.. all in less time than it takes to say it.

Are you aware of what it would take for a Machine to pull water out of air and produce an "ice Bat" in less than a second?
And he's more selective than the Torch.

Johnny can absorb and manip flame and heat.

Bobby can suck moisture from the air,.... or any nearby watersource without effecting anything else, control his own and any local temperture from ambiant to 100's below kelvan.

I'm not even going into the White Queen's spin on his powers.

If Johhny flies within range, Bobby just pulls the moisture and heat from around him,... he falls and does a mummy.
"100's below kelvan"? I'm not sure what you mean. You can't have temperatures below zero on the kelvin scale . . . if you just means he lowers the temperature by hundreds of kelvin, that's the same as saying he lowers it by hundreds of degrees celsius -- 1 kelvin equals 1 degree celsius, the only difference between the two scales is where the zero point is.

At any rate, I'm familiar with Iceman's powers (more so than with Torch's, since I'm a regular reader of X-Men but not of FF), and I realize he has lots of control over temperature and can lower temperatures by hundreds of degrees at will. But Torch probably emits thousands of degrees of heat, maybe tens of thousands. Heck, lightning can get up to 10,000 fahrenheit (well over 5,000 celsius), and I'm pretty sure Johnny's most intense flame emits more heat than a lightning bolt. I can't think of any example off the top of my head where Bobby has taken temperatures like that and instantly lowered them to zero, can you? That's not to say he couldn't do it, but I'd say it's not proven. Plus, we're not talking just dropping temperatures by that much, we're talking continually cooling them as Torch keeps pouring out more heat.

Add to that the fact that there's probably no way an actual comic book featuring a fight between Iceman and Torch would have Iceman just look at Torch and instantly snuff him out. I mean, there's just no way any writer would write it like that. Do you disagree?

At any rate, I still think Bobby would win a fight to the death, just because he's a lot harder to kill than Johnny is. And I also agree that Bobby has more control over ice and moisture than Johnny has over flame, in terms of the variety of effects he can achieve. But he can't do stuff like insta-freeze Johnny's brain if he's not trying to kill him. In a fight that's not to the death (i.e., a fight that's actually like it would happen in the comics), it would probably come down to Torch just blasting away with maximum heat and Iceman blasting away with maximum cold. And I'm not convinced Iceman can lower temperatures faster than Torch can raise them.

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Old 07-14-2005, 09:00 AM   #56
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Then again, there's at least one thing Iceman can do that Torch can't which would be useful in a non-lethal fight, namely Iceman can absorb moisture into himself to increase his size and strength. Then again, I'm not sure if he could get close enough to Torch to land a physical blow if Torch were trying to melt him -- again, it's not obvious to me that Iceman can lower temperatures faster than Torch can raise them. But Torch also might not to try to melt Iceman if he doesn't realize that Bobby would survive it, and if he is holding back I'm not sure he could prevent Bobby from hitting him.

There's also the fact that Bobby can attack from any direction, whereas Torch can only attack outward from his body. For instance, Bobby can make a giant block of ice materialize above Torch and fall on him, whereas, Torch's flame is always emitted from himself.

So I'd say even in a non-lethal fight Iceman has the advantage, although I still don't think he could just snuff Torch out at will.

Of course, you could probably make it go either way by stacking the odds against them, like making them fight in a low moisture environment or a low oxygen environment.

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Old 07-14-2005, 01:22 PM   #57
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Good stuff, Tim.

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Old 07-15-2005, 05:22 AM   #58
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Yeah, I agree with everyting you mentioned. Thank you for bringing for facts and seriousness to the conversation!

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Old 07-18-2005, 01:49 AM   #59
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

When Johnny causes a supernova he can destroy the entire planet right?

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Old 07-18-2005, 02:30 AM   #60
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Not sure if he can do all that.

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Old 07-18-2005, 02:52 AM   #61
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by htorch4ever
When Johnny causes a supernova he can destroy the entire planet right?
A small moon. So, a good part of the planet.

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Old 07-18-2005, 03:16 AM   #62
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFanTim
"100's below kelvan"? I'm not sure what you mean. You can't have temperatures below zero on the kelvin scale . . . if you just means he lowers the temperature by hundreds of kelvin, that's the same as saying he lowers it by hundreds of degrees celsius -- 1 kelvin equals 1 degree celsius, the only difference between the two scales is where the zero point is.
Sorry I was misinformed, (Need to be more precise)
Kelvin Scale
The Kelvin temperature scale (K) was developed by Lord Kelvin in the mid 1800s. The zero point of this scale is equivalent to -273.16 C on the Celsius scale. This zero point is considered the lowest possible temperature of anything in the universe. Therefore, the Kelvin scale is also known as the "absolute temperature scale". At the freezing point of water, the temperature of the Kelvin scale reads 273 K. At the boiling point of water, it reads 373 K.

Whereas the Kelvin scale is widely used by scientists, the Celsius or Fahrenheit scales are used in daily life. These two scales are easier to understand than the large numbers of the Kelvin scale. Could you imagine waking up to your radio and hearing the DJ give a weather report like this: "It's going to be a beautiful day today with sunny skies and a balmy temperature of 297 K!" That's 24 C or 75 F.



Quote:
Originally Posted by XFanTim
"At any rate, I'm familiar with Iceman's powers (more so than with Torch's, since I'm a regular reader of X-Men but not of FF), and I realize he has lots of control over temperature and can lower temperatures by hundreds of degrees at will. But Torch probably emits thousands of degrees of heat, maybe tens of thousands. Heck, lightning can get up to 10,000 fahrenheit (well over 5,000 celsius), and I'm pretty sure Johnny's most intense flame emits more heat than a lightning bolt. I can't think of any example off the top of my head where Bobby has taken temperatures like that and instantly lowered them to zero, can you?
"
Thinking,...... I think in the Champions He was doing some serious feat stuff,... He followed darkstar into orbit and was able to stay iced up and shield himself from space and the sun. He was able to ice over a mystical portal (Energy) to keep it open, Unfortunatly Speed of cooling and number of degrees are never described,.. just feats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFanTim
" That's not to say he couldn't do it, but I'd say it's not proven. Plus, we're not talking just dropping temperatures by that much, we're talking continually cooling them as Torch keeps pouring out more heat.
I'm trying to remember The endurance of Iceman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFanTim
Add to that the fact that there's probably no way an actual comic book featuring a fight between Iceman and Torch would have Iceman just look at Torch and instantly snuff him out. I mean, there's just no way any writer would write it like that. Do you disagree?
Nope,.. makes for a boring story,.. besides neither hero cuts loose at full power against a living opponent,... same argument as the Thor/Superman fight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XFanTim
"At any rate, I still think Bobby would win a fight to the death, just because he's a lot harder to kill than Johnny is. And I also agree that Bobby has more control over ice and moisture than Johnny has over flame, in terms of the variety of effects he can achieve. But he can't do stuff like insta-freeze Johnny's brain if he's not trying to kill him. In a fight that's not to the death (i.e., a fight that's actually like it would happen in the comics), it would probably come down to Torch just blasting away with maximum heat and Iceman blasting away with maximum cold. And I'm not convinced Iceman can lower temperatures faster than Torch can raise them.
Can't argue the point for the same reasons,...Unless he's trying to kill him he's not going to easily beat the torch.

D.

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Old 07-18-2005, 03:21 AM   #63
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by htorch4ever
When Johnny causes a supernova he can destroy the entire planet right?
Nope

His nova flame once trashed a University Campus,.. And I always thought his max would do a city,... but the planet?

Nova, (Cosmic-Powered by Galactus), couldn't do it,.. and she was magnitudes above johnny in power.

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Old 07-18-2005, 03:36 PM   #64
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

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Originally Posted by Varient
Nope

His nova flame once trashed a University Campus,.. And I always thought his max would do a city,... but the planet?

Nova, (Cosmic-Powered by Galactus), couldn't do it,.. and she was magnitudes above johnny in power.
You kidding? Any herald has the power to destroy Earth.

I mean, Nova has always restricted herself, she's at the ass end of the heralds... But still.

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Old 07-18-2005, 03:42 PM   #65
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

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Originally Posted by Varient
Nope

His nova flame once trashed a University Campus,.. And I always thought his max would do a city,... but the planet?

Nova, (Cosmic-Powered by Galactus), couldn't do it,.. and she was magnitudes above johnny in power.
You kidding? Any herald has the power to destroy Earth.

I mean, Nova has always restricted herself, she's at the ass end of the heralds... But still.

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Old 07-18-2005, 04:55 PM   #66
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

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You kidding? Any herald has the power to destroy Earth.

I mean, Nova has always restricted herself, she's at the ass end of the heralds... But still.
Name a flame-based Herald who could destroy the planet in one blast?

I dare say Norrin Rad Couldn't do it,... (And he's the most versatile) otherwise when Doom "stole" his power Doom would STILL be in charge.

Sorry,.. if the Heralds were THAT powerfull,.. Spiderman, the Thing, Thor,.. and others who gave them Pause wouldn't have stood a chance.

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Old 07-18-2005, 09:23 PM   #67
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

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Originally Posted by Varient
Name a flame-based Herald who could destroy the planet in one blast?

I dare say Norrin Rad Couldn't do it,... (And he's the most versatile) otherwise when Doom "stole" his power Doom would STILL be in charge.

Sorry,.. if the Heralds were THAT powerfull,.. Spiderman, the Thing, Thor,.. and others who gave them Pause wouldn't have stood a chance.
Who said anything about one blast?

Nova is far beyond flame as well. You know how powerful a star is? Our star gives off more energy in one second than we have in our entire history, and that includes every nuclear and atomic weapon ever tested. Coal, electricity, every bit of energy ever.

Anyhow, I've seen fights with Norrin where he's fighting someone else and several planets around him are being shattered. I mean, beyond what we saw with Betta Ray Bill and Stardust, to say the least.

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Old 07-19-2005, 02:23 AM   #68
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Unhappy Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

I think they mentioned something of him destroying the enitre planet if he caused a supernova in the movies...

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Old 07-19-2005, 02:30 AM   #69
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Lucy you are right they did, of course, they also gave Doom superpowers and put him in the "Space Station" as well, so anything in the movie is basically nonapplicable here.
But yes it was in the film.


Come on here people, this is not a popularity contest, it's a fight, quit judgin by who you like the most and face the facts!

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Old 07-19-2005, 06:05 AM   #70
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

yes, it is obvious that the torch has more fans here, but we need to look at the facts. as stated earlier, iceman could freeze the torch's lungs or brian with a thought. you all can read the rest of the thread if you want to see all the other reasons.

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Old 07-19-2005, 07:48 AM   #71
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varient
Name a flame-based Herald who could destroy the planet in one blast?

I dare say Norrin Rad Couldn't do it,... (And he's the most versatile) otherwise when Doom "stole" his power Doom would STILL be in charge.

Sorry,.. if the Heralds were THAT powerfull,.. Spiderman, the Thing, Thor,.. and others who gave them Pause wouldn't have stood a chance.
Firelord could.

When Firelord fought spidey he held back his actual blasts. We initially see him blow up a planetoid on the way to earth as it was in his way. And he continually goes over the fact he could simply destroy the city to kill spidey but it would be dishonourable. Firelord is effectively a man sized sun. Silver Surfer when fighting usually goes over the fact he isn't trying to hurt anyone as well. And when the heralds are trying to hurt someone it is directed at an individual with innocents around them.

Heralds are definitely that powerful.

=======

And if Johnny's nova can destroy a moon then it would effectively destroy Earth anyway. Hell just blowing up our moon would result in the death of everyone on Earth (normal humans). Still he wouldn't get the chance IMO, Iceman would win.

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Old 07-19-2005, 09:50 AM   #72
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

I dont think freezing someone's insides would do well as long as the guys on fire. And torch can also fly, so that would make him harder to hit.

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Old 07-19-2005, 10:34 PM   #73
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

iceman doesnt have to "hit" anybody. he just thinks about freezing an area, and its frozen. dont know how fast the torch is, but iceman has been clocked at over 120mph. (you see how i did that everybody? i admitted that i didnt know something about a character instead of assuming...) and his insides would freeze, even if he is of fire,johny's insides can be fozen, with a thought.

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Old 07-19-2005, 11:06 PM   #74
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

Johnny

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Old 07-19-2005, 11:26 PM   #75
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Default Re: Fire vs Ice...Human Torch vs Ice Man??? Please...

In the marvel encyclopedia it says that the torch can go like max speed 1400 mph and iceman 800 mph.So I think torch would win in a race.

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