"The ROLO Factor": Wolverine & Storm's Relationship

[-Æ-]

Originally Posted by ts16

Wasnt there talk of a script change though ? that whole cycolps aspect could very well have been rewritten, same for the storm/logan love story.

We can only hope.

[TheVileOne]

Originally Posted by Dark Lightning

And thank you for consistently being an ass. Your abrasive ways never fail to impress us Hypesters.

Please try your call again later.

Domo.

Liz, how can you anticipate the general movie audience will not "favour" a concept they haven't seen? At this point it'd be hard to guage what their reaction will be considering that Storm has been a 2-dimmensional character for 2 films straight. This is where Singer really handicapped Storm's cinematic personna--he hasn't built any kind of foundation whatsoever for her.

In your opinion. She seemed to be pretty established character in the last 2 movies and had a strong bond and relationship to the children of the institute.

Think about it: all of the core X-Men characters (in particular Rogue, Bobby, Pyro, Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, and especially Logan) Storm is the only one that has never had a true character arc. She's never grown from one point in the saga to another point in her personality. While the NC "I have faith in you" was a nice step in the right direction, Kurt won't even be in this installment so they are taking her back to square one again.

There was also her resentment toward humanity which was evident in both movies, that Nightcrawler helperd her overcome in the second one where it was STORM that saved the world, NOT Wolverine.

Ratner knows the X-Men well--he's reportedly a major fan of the characters. So he knows Storm is regal but is also passionate and sexually free (especially in the 80's when she was often nude or scantily clad ). Bryan Singer completely rewrote her character into an oppressed, mousy, scared individual...hardly a Goddess that commands the winds.

Singer didn't rewrite the character. And I didn't find her mousy or scared at all. She gets quite mousy, scared, and oppressed in the comics frequently in regards to her claustrophobia though.

I've yet to see Ratner show any proof that he knows the characters well other than himself saying he's a big fan.

That said, Brett & Co. will have an uphill battle indeed to bring some life to Storm. While I too am concerned that the ROLO factor is just a way to "give her something to do" it is also clear-cut evidence that FOX finally realizes the character has suffered a lack of development and needs something to do. If it's done tastefully and with class it coooould work.

Once again, in the second movie she SAVED HUMANITY on the entire planet. If that's not something to do, I don't know what is.

My whole point is that its not going to be tasteful, its just going to cash in on star power, and whatever tasteful or compelling material can come out of that is going to be brushed aside for the simple novelty of pairing up Halle Berry and Hugh Jackman. The question isn't a "Can we have a romance between Wolverine and Storm?" its Tom Rothman's question of, "Can we get Halle and Hugh to ****?"

Making this into a LOVE TRIANGLE between Storm, Wolverine, and Jean would also be complete and utter bull****. The whole point was in the comics AND the movies as well is that Jean is NOT really in love with Logan. Her attraction to Logan was purely superficial, and after looking into it she realizes that she's really in love with Scott. Scott is the person she wants to be with and truly loves deep down inside.

There's no reflection of the Emma, Scott, Jean triangle with Jean, Storm, and Wolverine at all. Jean and Scott were married! In the movies all Jean and Wolverine had was at best an IMMATURE attraction to each other. They never had a REAL relationship!

[Endeavor]

Well said VileOne.

Lightning had some good ideas, but as I expressed before I fear that's not what we're going to see on screen. I don't even think that's the reasoning that went on when they decided to include ROLO in the script that was reviewed.

[JP]

Agreed

[Angry Sentinel]

Maybe its the last convo about a "3-way" that has left a bad taste in my mouth but I am having a hard time having positive thoughts about this "possible" script idea.

My latest reservations stem from the fact that this story is primarily about the "Phoenix". THE PHOENIX!!!! When did the phoenix story not become enough to fill a movie? Yeah I know you gotta have backstory, and side agendas going on, but does anyone really want ROLO as a back or side story? That thought alone cheapens this concept.

I'll end my rant with the usual "takes toys and hopes for hope" crap I've been trying to pretend to feel, but not without making it clear I really dont FEEL that great about it.

*takes toys goes home and... *

[TheVileOne]

Originally Posted by Angry Sentinel

Maybe its the last convo about a "3-way" that has left a bad taste in my mouth but I am having a hard time having positive thoughts about this "possible" script idea.

My latest reservations stem from the fact that this story is primarily about the "Phoenix". THE PHOENIX!!!! When did the phoenix story not become enough to fill a movie? Yeah I know you gotta have backstory, and side agendas going on, but does anyone really want ROLO as a back or side story? That thought alone cheapens this concept.

I agree. That they are probably brushing aside the Phoenix and also trying to have this de-mutant story is worrying.

It could make the movie suffer as a result.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

In your opinion. She seemed to be pretty established character in the last 2 movies and had strong bond and relationship to the children of the institute. !

The vast majority of people would disagree with you. Both critics, fans and general audiences have consistently and unaminously commented on how short-changed this particular character is (along with Scott Summers).

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

There was also her resentment toward humanity which was evident in both movies, that Nightcrawler helperd her overcome in the second one where it was STORM that saved the world, NOT Wolverine.!

That "resentment" is not accurate, and the fact that they put that there shows they don't truly understand the character. Storm doesn't resent humanity at all--she embraces the differences of cultures and works to make them coincide peacefully. You can't arrive to that conclusion if you're begrudingly resentful of them.

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Singer didn't rewrite the character. And I didn't find her mousy or scared at all. She gets quite mousy, scared, and oppressed in the comics frequently in regards to her claustrophobia though.

I've yet to see Ratner show any prove that he knows the characters well other than himself saying he's a big fan.

Singer admits he never touched an X-Men comic prior to 2000. He has also been said to not care much for Storm's character. Ratner *says* he's a huge fan but the proof will be in the pudding come May 2006.

But as someone who has read/collected these books with a particular passion for Storm, I can confidently tell you that Singer did indeed rewrite the character. He totally screwed her up royally. He custom-fit Storm for Halle, rather than transform Halle into Storm.

Storm is NOT mousy--and anyone who says she is simply does not know the character at all. Women that are worshipped as goddesses and held in high regard as royalty don't portray themselves that way. She is a woman of strength and fortitude--and even when she is at her weakest (i.e. in a claustrophobic situation) she generates more commanding presence and dominance in her pinky finger than movie Storm's whole on-screen experience.

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Once again, in the second movie she SAVED HUMANITY on the entire planet. If that's not something to do, I don't know what is.

What, she stood there with her eyes rolled back for 1:30 seconds and created a cold wind????



Whoopty-ficking do. That's SFX doing their job, not characterization. Do you honestly understand what characterization is? Having Storm whip up tornadoes and blizzards is not "giving the character something to do". The other X-Men have SFX powers too, but that is only one dimmension of their character. They have been fleshed out well:

Wolverine: We don't even have to go into how much detail has been invested with the multiple flashbacks to his Weapon X days, his romantic conflict, his lack of memory, blah, blah and more blah.

Jean: Love Triangle, conflicted, flirtatious, lacking self-confidence and esteem at times. She is the mediator and problem solver, providing both the glue that holds things together and the hatchet that breaks them apart (i.e. with Logan and Scott). She is the center of each film's love story.

Bobby: Again, self-explanatory. We know all about the Drake Family and his background from X2.

Rogue: We know all about Marie's background and how she ran away from home in X1.

Magneto: We are treated to flashbacks to Erik's past in the Nazi concentration camps, and how he was snatched from his parents at a young age. In X1 he explains to Rogue how he and others arrived in New York as immigrants, but how the US turned out to be no "land of peace".

Nightcrawler: X2 spends much time developing his Mutant Circus history, as well as his experiences after he left that circle.

Mystique: Both films spend a lot of time touching on her school days mistreatment, her bottled anger and seething contempt for humanity, and her refusal to "look like everyone else". She gets almost too much screen time.

Professor X: His backstory is also explained thoroughly in X1, and his "bonding" with his brother-in-spirit Magneto is well documented.

Storm: Creates wind and more wind. Is scared of humans. Why? We don't know. Anger helps her survive. Against what? We don't know. She gave up on pity a long time ago. Why did she do this? We have no focking clue. There is no hint to what country she came from, let alone her past Goddess status in Africa, her adventures as a pick-pocket and other features.

But she can make a lot of wind though...and utter the worst punch-line in cinematic history.





Don't tell me that Storm is anywhere near the characterization equivalent of her peers in this saga.

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

My whole point is that its not going to be tasteful, its just going to cash in on star power, and whatever tasteful or compelling material can come out of that is going to be brushed aside for the simple novelty of pairing up Halle Berry and Hugh Jackman. The question isn't a "Can we have a romance between Wolverine and Storm?" its Tom Rothman's question of, "Can we get Halle and Hugh to ****?"

Making this into a LOVE TRIANGLE between Storm, Wolverine, and Jean would also be complete and utter bull****. The whole point was in the comics AND the movies as well is that Jean is NOT really in love with Logan. Her attraction to Logan was purely superficial, and after looking into it she realizes that she's really in love with Scott. Scott is the person she wants to be with and truly loves deep down inside.

There's no reflection of the Emma, Scott, Jean triangle with Jean, Storm, and Wolverine at all. Jean and Scott were married! In the movies all Jean and Wolverine had was at best an IMMATURE attraction to each other. They never had a REAL relationship!

I agree with the above.

[-Æ-]

Whoa, you must not really like storm period with that long put out draft you just posted up.

[TheVileOne]

Originally Posted by Dark Lightning

The vast majority of people would disagree with you. Both critics, fans and general audiences have consistently and unaminously commented on how short-changed this particular character is (along with Scott Summers).

Yeah well that's great, I disagree.

That "resentment" is not accurate, and the fact that they put that there shows they don't truly understand the character. Storm doesn't resent humanity at all--she embraces the differences of cultures and works to make them coincide peacefully. You can't arrive to that conclusion if you're begrudingly resentful of them.

Yes, and now because of her relationship with Nightcrawler in the second movie, she can do that .

Singer admits he never touched an X-Men comic prior to 2000. He has also been said to not care much for Storm's character. Ratner *says* he's a huge fan but the proof will be in the pudding come May 2006.

When did he say that? X-men came out in 2000. He had been working on the movie since 1997. And we know that he had to have picked up an X-men comic before it was released in 2000. He had been doing that when Tom DeSanto first introduced him and got him involved with the project. BS.

And it takes more than being a fan of the comics. Singer became a fan when he started working on the movies. But Singer is also a competent and coherent director, storyteller, and filmmaker. Much more so than Ratner. And I think that's just as important as fandom of the comics.

But as someone who has read/collected these books with a particular passion for Storm, I can confidently tell you that Singer did indeed rewrite the character. He totally screwed her up royally. He custom-fit Storm for Halle, rather than transform Halle into Storm.

Singer's not the writer.

Storm is NOT mousy--and anyone who says she is simply does not know the character at all. Women that are worshipped as goddesses and held in high regard as royalty don't portray themselves that way. She is a woman of strength and fortitude--and even when she is at her weakest (i.e. in a claustrophobic situation) she generates more commanding presence and dominance in her pinky finger than movie Storm's whole on-screen experience.

I don't see how this is all Bryan Singer's fault. Halle Berry has NEVER convincingly played a strong, willed and powerful woman like Storm. Jinx in Die Another Day was a mediocre and lame character with some of the worst character. Maybe you know, its not within Halle Berry's capacity to play more than vulnerable, compassionate types.

Just wanted to put that on the table.

What, she stood there with her eyes rolled back for 1:30 seconds and created a cold wind????

Whatever, you can generalize it like that, but if it wasn't for her seeing through the ruse and breaking Professor Xavier free, all the humans on the planet would've died. That's what happened in the movie. Her summoning up the of the tornadoes was a pretty HUGE display of her power as well IMHO. You can say, "OH SHE JUST SAT THERE" with her eyes white and find more things to complain about instead of emphasizing the positive things they did with her character.

Maybe Storm and Wolverine pairing will be just as great of a relationship as you claimed Alicia and Ben would be in Fantastic Four .

[TheVileOne]

edit

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by -Æ-

Whoa, you must not really like storm period with that long put out draft you just posted up.

Huh? If you read the post you'd realize I adore Storm--that's the whole point.

As far as the length of the post, well...I'm known here for going to great lengths to substantiate my position on various matters. Sometimes a 2-sentence response is simply not strong enough to get my point across.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

I don't see how this is all Bryan Singer's fault. Halle Berry has NEVER convincingly played a strong, willed and powerful woman like Storm. Jinx in Die Another Day was a mediocre and lame character with some of the worst character. Maybe you know, its not within Halle Berry's capacity to play more than vulnerable, compassionate types.

Just wanted to put that on the table.

Allow me to put something else on the table.

How many movies featuring Halle Berry have you personally seen? Have you seen any of her works aside from 007 or Monster's Ball? Have you watched her dramatic roles i.e. Queen, or perhaps The Dorothy Dandridge Story? If you had, you'd see she certainly has the "capacity" as you put it...if the role calls for it. Hell, even in Catwoman she showed serious fire when she crashed her neighbor's house party. And that movie was lackluster.

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Whatever, you can generalize it like that, but if it wasn't for her seeing through the ruse and breaking Professor Xavier free, all the humans on the planet would've died. That's what happened in the movie. Her summoning up the of the tornadoes was a pretty HUGE display of her power as well IMHO. You can say, "OH SHE JUST SAT THERE" with her eyes white and find more things to complain about instead of emphasizing the positive things they did with her character.

Maybe Storm and Wolverine pairing will be just as great of a relationship as you claimed Alicia and Ben would be in Fantastic Four .

Way to miss my entire point about characterization, which is the usual response I get from you when I start coming with the facts. Talk about playing semantics. Vile, we aren't talking about SFX...we were talking about what it would take to make Storm a three-dimmensional character on screen.

Stop clinging to the SFX excuse--that shouldn't be all there is to Storm. Do you READ the comics? If you do, surely you can see there is a vast difference between what the comics suggest and the movie adaptation.

[-Æ-]

I don't know your last draft seem to drafted on the negative qualities that Storm (Halle) had in the movie. Thats all the writers fault on that, and the direction, although I'm not defending Halle cause as a actress she could have had a word in on it. Either that they need to drop her arse and pick up someone else. Anyway, I just thought it was to drawn out, yes I guess you just have to type it that way, but the point is, that I don't see the focus of it. Besides your whole "ROLO factor" thesis you presented, the whole factoral debate on this leads me to wonder, why should it matter. Now don't get me wrong there are going to be some diffrences in opinion on this matter. I believe that yes they did present storm in a indiffrence factor to a point, they did show alot of her strong prowress though. There is no escaping that Hollywood is always going to have there last say in things *which sucks* but were stuck with that not unless a studio can be developed were all comic based films are created there, and there will be no problem with licensing, commercial onslaught, or abbrevial deviants.

[Angry Sentinel]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Edit...

Maybe Storm and Wolverine pairing will be just as great of a relationship as you claimed Alicia and Ben would be in Fantastic Four .

To quote Ashton Cutcher's character from "that 70's show".....

Buuuuuuurrrnnn!

[TheVileOne]

Originally Posted by Dark Lightning

Allow me to put something else on the table.

How many movies featuring Halle Berry have you personally seen? Have you seen any of her works aside from 007 or Monster's Ball? Have you watched her dramatic roles i.e. Queen, or perhaps The Dorothy Dandridge Story? If you had, you'd see she certainly has the "capacity" as you put it...if the role calls for it. Hell, even in Catwoman she showed serious fire when she crashed her neighbor's house party. And that movie was lackluster.

Other than 007 or Monster's Ball? X-men 1 and X-men 2 .

But seriously of her movies she's appeared in that I've seen Robots (voice), Swordfish, Gothika, Bulworth (Beatty does rap), BAPS, Executive Decision, The Flinstones, Boomerang, The Program, and of course the fantastic Losing Isiah.

Citing CINO doesn't exactly help very much methinks.

Way to miss my entire point about characterization, which is the usual response I get from you when I start coming with the facts. Talk about playing semantics. Vile, weren't talking about SFX...we were talking about making Storm a three-dimmensional character on screen.

Stop clinging to the SFX excuse--that shouldn't be all there is to Storm.

I don't think that's all there is to Storm. You do .

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by -Æ-

Anyway, I just thought it was to drawn out, yes I guess you just have to type it that way, but the point is, that I don't see the focus of it.

Well that's because it's really not for you Æ. It's for Vile, whom I've known for quite some time here on SHH. And he has a history of purposely dodging points when they are clearly cut for him to read. So while a simple one or two-sentence statement would suffice for most, for him I have to lay it out concisely--bullet by bullet--to make sure he gets where I'm coming from. I don't do the semantics thing.

And as you can see, for all that thought and development I invested in my response to him, he still missed the entire point.

[TheVileOne]

Yes, and for all of Dark Lightning's long winded bullet by bullet points, rants and explanations on how things will be and turn out in the movies, like Fantastic Four,...none of it really turns out to be relevant at all.

[Slim_X]

Man, you're such a *****.

[Lazmarquez]

I've quickly scanned most of the posts in this thread and although i won't go and respond to particular quotes, i wanted to chime in and give my two cents on this whole issue, as redundant as my opinions may sound at this point.

I'd like to start with saying a little something about Bryan Singer and everyone's rage about him changing the character up. Bryan was an amazing director folks, if he wasn't, we wouldnt even be here debating anything. We wouldnt care what happens next. He may not have been the biggest fan of the Xmen prior to his work on the films, but how is that a bad thing? Translating comics to films is not easy, and it can't be literally translated, otherwise it would be a big joke. That's why comics are comics (to be read and viewed) and Movies are movies. I enjoyed the fact that it was a director that could appreciate the darker, more serious tones of the idea of Xmen, rather than letting his knowledge and opinions of the book sway his judgments. Singer was fantastic, and If he could develop every other character pretty decently, why is it that Storm was so lack-luster? Maybe Ms.Berry cannot necessarily give across the energy and spirit of Storm. I've come to terms with it, they corrected her X1 flaws and dealt with their actress in the best ways they could. She wasn't terrible in X2. At least she lost that accent.

As for the whole "ROLO" thing, I agree with most when I say that it does seem like a cheap way for them to use Halle more and give her the ability to display the chemistry that she and Hugh had on Swordfish. But I never got the slightest hints that Storm and Logan would EVER be attracted to one another. I feel it also cheapens Wolverine somewhat. I feel as though the next film could have had a very impactful energy about it with Jean's return. Much like the comics where He of all people, has such a difficulty fighting Jeanie. Regardless to some opinions that Jean came across not loving Logan in the movies. I must say that i feel she did. I feel as though Jean just had a sense of unsurity when it came to logan due to his constant departures and lack of stability. Her allowing of the kiss was an example, and the twinkle in her eyes was another. Famke displayed this very well and look at her in the films, she is torn completley. This is why Scott seems so threatened. BUT, now with Storm and Wolvie together, it seems as though Logan takes any lady he can get.

And overall, I think the idea is just plain annoying. But there's nothing we can do, but wait and see how it comes across.. They might just surprise us all..

-Laz

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Yes, and for all of Dark Lightning's long winded bullet by bullet points, rants and explanations on how things will be and turn out in the movies, like Fantastic Four,...none of it really turns out to be relevant at all.

Awwwww...looks like someone is still licking his wounds from the debates he lost at the Fantastic Four board, eh?

Don't make me embarrass you on this board too Vile. Tread lightly my friend, for I'm not as tolerant as my boy A1ant is.

[Son Of Logan]

Ah...but can you imagine? Jean comes back. Sees Logan with Storm. Jean gets pissed. Logan won't fight Jean. That pisses off Storm.

Storm: You been lying with me every night, but you still love this b****?!? Oh, hell, no!!!

Cat fight!!! Cat fight!!!

[TheVileOne]

Going by the last 2 movies, I'd see Rogue/Wolverine as more likely than Storm/Wolverine.

And the amount of "'shipper" websites for that pairing (Rogue/Wolverine) is ridiculous. Its like, "Holy crap guys, they are like brother and sister not lovers!"

[TheVileOne]

Originally Posted by Dark Lightning

Awwwww...looks like someone is still licking his wounds from the debates he lost at the Fantastic Four board, eh?

Don't make me embarrass you on this board too Vile. Tread lightly my friend, for I'm not as tolerant as my boy A1ant is.

Considering all that happened with CINO in 2004...I think I've been more than tolerant of a1ant .

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by TheVileOne

Considering all that happened with CINO in 2004...I think I've been more than tolerant of a1ant .

LOL....

What...ever.

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by Slim_X

Man, you're such a *****.

Just curious as to who that was directed at ?
Anyway it's like where back on the F4 forum,with Vile and Lightnin going at it
As far as the relationship between Logan and Storm goes,it all depends on how it is shot and written,anyone says they know for sure how it will turn out is eating with the same hand they wipe their ass with
One thing is for sure,no matter what bones were thrown to Storm in X2 she still was nothing like her character,the material wasn't there that is tru but im not sure whether Halle could nail it if it was