X3's Musical Score: Forum Discussion (merged 2)

[Lightning Strykez!]

"X3's Musical Score":
The Official Forum Discussion


An Essay By Caliph AKA Lightning Strikez!
****************************************

From the little we've heard, it appears that X3 is going to be grittier, more controversial and emotionally driven than what we've gotten accustomed to. Considering that Brett Ratner, an A-list director who reportedly is well-versed in X-Men comic lore is helming the project, it's likely that the overall *feel* and styling of X3 will be drastically different from the first two installments (in fact, even if Brett wasn't hell-bent on doing this franchise, it still would be an aesthetic departure from Singer's previous works).

That said, a high level of importance should be given to a little something called...continuity. In other words, we as fans and movie goers want "the same, but different". Obviously the same characters and the general direction that X2 established will be respected here, but there is one item that can make X3 still *feel* like X2: Its orchestral score.

Update 12/9/05:

It was announced today that John Powell will compose the music for 20th Century Fox's X-Men 3:

Powell, whose previous action scores include Face/Off, The Bourne Identity and The Italian Job, is working for the first time with director Brett Ratner. Previous reports about Lalo Schifrin being involved in the project (Ratner worked with him on the two Rush Hour films and After the Sunset) are no longer accurate. The two first X-Men films, directed by Bryan Singer, were scored by Michael Kamen and John Ottman.

X2's score, created by John Ottman (The Usual Suspects, Fantastic Four) weaved an easily identifiable, driving mood throughout the film. A total contrast to 2000's X-Men, X2 had a distinct musical style and most would equate as the series' signature theme.


Questions for Discussion:

*Do you think John Ottman's musical style is essential for X3's sense of continuity?

*Should John Powell base his score on Ottman's X2 themes, or design an all-new score?

*From the little we know, should X3's score be even darker to convey a sense of tragedy?

[aaron]

i believe it isnt essential for ottman's style to continue as this movie is obviously going to have a different tone to the previous 2 installments.

i believe schifrin should base his themes on ottman's, but evolve them into his own, he obviously has the talent, the awards and experience he has show that easily.

tragedy - at some times, yeah.

[green]

Ottman is also editing Superman Returns as well as scoring.
I would hope the score stays similar to X2 but honestly as long as it works Im happy.

[Will]

Originally Posted by Lightning Strikez!

*Do you think John Ottman's musical style is essential for X3's sense of continuity?

Not really. As much as I really loved his X2 score, it didn't have much continuity from the first.

*Should Lalo base his score on Ottman's X2 themes, or design an all-new score?

I think they should follow a bit of the previous themes with regards to a more action'ish flair but he should do his own too. Each movie had a different composer so that's something interesting to note.

*From the little we know, should X3's score convey a sense of tragedy?

A bit but mostly at the end.

[the a1ant]

They need to get Ottman back...seriously. His main X2 theme was actually memorable. It'd be a big shame it the main theme is changed now. We need some continuity in the music for these films...at least the first three, ya know? If they don't manage to get Ottman back, then hopefully the X3 composer will incorporate the main theme into his music. Here's hoping. I can't even remember if that guy who scored 'Mission Impossible' was already officially signed for X3, or if it was just speculation

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by the a1ant

I can't even remember if that guy who scored 'Mission Impossible' was already officially signed for X3, or if it was just speculation

According to IMDb.com Lalo is listed as "music composer." And it makes perfect sense considering that Lalo has apparently scored exclusively for Brett Ratner in the past (Money Talks, both Rush Hour films, Red Dragon et al).

[WalkingDead]

I don't really think Ottman is needed back. I mean if he was to return, well then it's neat and good. But if he doesn't, well then that's fine as long as the composer can do the film justice and make it moving and exciting. It would be nice to see and opening theme similar to X2, but not exact I think.

I don't think it'll kill the movie if it doesn't sound like X2 in anyway as long as the music is solid and well-done.

[GNR]

I think even though we're getting a new composer,they will try and maintain the similarity with the themes.X1 and X2 has different composers,the first one being Michael Kamen.Although we had different composers,the themes and score sounded in sync with one another.So there really isn't a need to have the same composer back.As long as they know the feel and tone of the series,then I feel we have nothing to worry about.Besides,this guy is a veteran,what more could we ask for.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by GNR4Life

I think even though we're getting a new composer,they will try and maintain the similarity with the themes.X1 and X2 has different composers,the first one being Michael Kamen.Although we had different composers,the themes and score sounded in sync with one another.So there really isn't a need to have the same composer back.As long as they know the feel and tone of the series,then I feel we have nothing to worry about.Besides,this guy is a veteran,what more could we ask for.

From what I've read John Ottman is actually recreating John William's score for Superman Returns. While I'm sure there are legal ramifications to account for, could Lalo do the very same thing in recreating Ottman's score but with a twist? Or are there copyright issues involved?

[green]

Originally Posted by Lightning Strikez!

From what I've read John Ottman is actually recreating John William's score for Superman Returns. While I'm sure there are legal ramifications to account for, could Lalo do the very same thing in recreating Ottman's score but with a twist? Or are there copyright issues involved?

Ottman is only using the main Superman theme from Williams score and with Williams blessing. Like I said Ottman is also editing Superman Returns so I highly doubt he would be able to do a score for X3, Im not sure he would have the time. I doubt Ottman would mind Lalo using elements of the X2 score, he'd probably be flattered. I would hope he does for continuity sake.
As long as it's not some radical departure from the first two it'll be fine.

[Slim_X]

I wanted Ottman back, but after hearing the F4 score I don't care who scores X3 anymore.

[tedw]

Lalo isn't doing the score for the film, unless something changes from this point out. IMDB is not always accurate, and isn't in this case.

[Electrix]

Lalo seems good.

Aslong as the music suits the emotions of the scene I dont mind. I liked X1's music better than X2's. X1's music just felt more emotional and better in general.

X3:
3 directors
3 editors
3 composers

And many other 3 stuff I cant be bothered to remember.

[chuckweedle]

Originally Posted by tedw

Lalo isn't doing the score for the film, unless something changes from this point out. IMDB is not always accurate, and isn't in this case.

What makes you so sure? I'm not saying you're wrong, but you seem to be 100% positive on this, and I'm wondering if you know something we don't.

[Mr. Freeze]

I want the score to be simliar to X1..

I loved the music tone when the Brotherhood was on screen!

[TNC9852002]

Yeah,...I kinda preferred Kamen's score..

I don't really care if it breaks continuity or not..I just want some damn good music.. I guess it would be nice if a little bit of Ottman and Kamen was thrown in, but if he's the kind of professional composer which I think he is, he'll probably stray a little and into his own original music..

-TNC

[GNR]

Originally Posted by Mr. Freeze

I want the score to be simliar to X1..

I loved the music tone when the Brotherhood was on screen!

THe music when Sabretooth walks up to Storm and grabs her by the throat is classic.I really love X1 now more than I did when it came out.

[tedw]

1) John Ottman told me that Lalo Schifrin working on the film is a rumor. I assume in his interest in working on the film, he's been trying to keep up to date on whether that position was still open.

2) Lalo's agent said online he was "hopeful" to work on the film, but didn't confirm he was working on it.

3) I was contacted via my site and had a bunch of people confirmed (which later proved true), and they gave me the name of a composer - Ilan Eshkeri (http://www.thexverse.com/news/0071.shtml). Eshkeri worked on some music for Layer Cake, so I assume he came in with Vaughn.

Yes, it could still change. But based on the other info being confirmed, I wouldn't hesitate to say I'm confident about Eshkeri. It was at least a month ago, and Ratner's aboard now (though he was then), but who knows?

http://www.mp3search.ru/album.html?id=27508&ref=4460 Click the little WMV icons to listen to some of his music. I think 'Drive to the Boatyard' is pretty cool. Listening to it, I was excited to hear what he'd do.

But I'm not offended if no one believes me yet; I know my site's still fairly new. And if this is proven wrong, I'll take it on the chin. lol

[JP]

Originally Posted by Mr. Freeze

I want the score to be simliar to X1..

I loved the music tone when the Brotherhood was on screen!

Mystiques little theme sond was bad ass.

[Retroman]

I think Lalo should be able to add his signature to the film but continue the themes that Ottman created for X2. Judging the recent rumors we're going to get a more dramatic score.

As someone suggested earlier maybe Lalo could collaborate with John on this. A bit like the Zimmer and Newton-Howard did on BB. Ottman has stated on many occasions that he wants to return as long as it doesn't conflict with Superman i'm fine with it.

[EnSabahNur]

can we move this to non spoilers? please like its nothing against this thread but there needs to be good topics in there adn this has no spoilers there for allowing it to be in the nonspoilers section

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by EnSabahNur

can we move this to non spoilers? please like its nothing against this thread but there needs to be good topics in there adn this has no spoilers there for allowing it to be in the nonspoilers section

Whaa????? It's fine here. Not every topic has to contain a "spoiler" to be discussed in this section. Besides, the vast majority of us dwell here....why would I launch a thread that will get no feedback in a dead forum?

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by tedw

1) John Ottman told me that Lalo Schifrin working on the film is a rumor. I assume in his interest in working on the film, he's been trying to keep up to date on whether that position was still open.

2) Lalo's agent said online he was "hopeful" to work on the film, but didn't confirm he was working on it.

3) I was contacted via my site and had a bunch of people confirmed (which later proved true), and they gave me the name of a composer - Ilan Eshkeri (http://www.thexverse.com/news/0071.shtml). Eshkeri worked on some music for Layer Cake, so I assume he came in with Vaughn.

Yes, it could still change. But based on the other info being confirmed, I wouldn't hesitate to say I'm confident about Eshkeri. It was at least a month ago, and Ratner's aboard now (though he was then), but who knows?

http://www.mp3search.ru/album.html?id=27508&ref=4460 Click the little WMV icons to listen to some of his music. I think 'Drive to the Boatyard' is pretty cool. Listening to it, I was excited to hear what he'd do.

But I'm not offended if no one believes me yet; I know my site's still fairly new. And if this is proven wrong, I'll take it on the chin. lol

An interesting find Ted; thanks for sharing what you've learned.

From what I understand, Brett prefers Lalo and apparently they have a good working relationship. Besides that, considering that Ottman is scoring Returns, I'd think that FOX would not be too keen on wanting their prized franchise sounding too similiar to their competitor. This summer Ottman did Fantastic 4, but it was the only comic book film he orchestrated in that time frame. But next summer he already has a major committment and since he'll be doing post on Returns at the same time as X3, I can't see FOX trying to involve him on this project.

My opinion on the subject? I love John Ottman. Although I haven't spoken to him since he departed for Australia, he was a real pleasure to talk to/deal with on the Fantastic 4 film--and I'd love to see him come back for X3. And I know he's interested in expanding the themes he set up for the series last time.

I guess time will tell.

[KenK]

People slept on Kamen's score, I guess 'cause it wasn't as action-driven as they would have liked. But then again, the first X-Men wasn't very action driven. And the music he did for the scene with Wolverine and Rogue (that's the actual title of the piece on the soundtrack) on the Statue of Liberty torch is very memorable and emotional. I also liked the music from the opening credits/cerebro scene.

And I'm pretty sure Danny Elfman did the music for Red Dragon, Lightning.

Maybe Marco Beltrami's available?

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by KenK

People slept on Kamen's score, I guess 'cause it wasn't as action-driven as they would have liked. But then again, the first X-Men wasn't very action driven. And the music he did for the scene with Wolverine and Rogue (that's the actual title of the piece on the soundtrack) on the Statue of Liberty torch is very memorable and emotional. I also liked the music from the opening credits/cerebro scene.

And I'm pretty sure Danny Elfman did the music for Red Dragon, Lightning.

Maybe Marco Beltrami's available?

IMDb has him listed for orchestrating that if I recall correctly.