If Joel Schumacher made other comic films..

[Immortalfire]

Makes you appreciate Singer, Raimi and company just a tad more...


X-Men... Wolverine (Philip Seymore Hoffman) is traveling with a girl named Rouge (Jennifer Aniston) and they get attacked by Sabertooth (Hank Azaria) who is from the IRS. They are rescued by Cyclops (Antonio Banderas) and Storm (Tara Reid). They soon meet Charles Xavier (Ben Stein) who gets around in a NEON wheelchair with the help of Jean Grey (Alicia Silverstone). They dress in black leather suits with nipples, then go into battle against Xavier's nemesis Magneto (Eddie Griffin) and his assistant Mystique (Beyonce Knowles) who is going to use a NEON machine to make everyone watch "Survivor" for all time. Look for a cameo by Snoop Dogg as a street hustler dressed in NEON.

The Hulk... Bruce Banner (Freddie Prinze Jr.), is a nuclear scientist who gets caught a big NEON explosion. When Banner's Judy Garland record collection is destroyed by his arch-rival, the mustlebound NEON mastermind Abomination (Tom Cruise) and his sidekick the penis-shaped, villian the Leader (Chris Tucker), Banner's rage unleashes his darker side in the form of a green, naked NEON creature named Hulk (The Rock) and wrecks the joint. Look for a cameo by Missy Eliot as a hooker dressed in NEON.

Spider-Man... Meek and mild Peter Parker (John Stamos) is in love with dope addict Mary Jane Watson (Kate Moss) and hangs out with friend Harry Osborn (Martin Lawrence). Peter is bitten by a NEON radioactive spider and then takes on all the abilities of the arachnid, which includes shooting NEON webbing from his nipples. When Peter's uncle Ben (Rev. Jerry Falwell) throws out his Will Clark rookie card, Peter vows to fight injustice and becomes the amazing Spider-Man. Meanwhile, industrialist Norman Osborn (Jeff Goldblum) experiments with a gas and it turns him into the evil Green Goblin who flies around on a NEON glider, and hits on Peter's aunt May (Brittany Murphy), thus making he and Spider-Man mortal enemies. Watch for Macy Gray as a hooker dressed in NEON.

Daredevil... Driven mad by the NEON lights of Hell's Kitchen, lawyer Matt Murdock (Justin Timberlake), blinds himself in order to escape the horror. Weilding a penis-shaped billy club, Murdock becomes an avenger of the night, the crimson-clad Daredevil who sets out to take down the crime boss responsible for all the NEON: the Kingpin (Vin Diesel) and his henchman the lethal Bullseye (Chris Katan) and Mr. Hyde (Sinbad). Look for a cameo by Mariah Carey as a hooker dressed in NEON.

Superman... On the far-off planet Krypton, the wise Jor-El (Ashton Kutcher) sends his infant son Kal-El in a NEON rocket to Earth for no reason. The child is found and raised by Jonathan (Jerry Springer) and Martha (Pamela Anderson). The boy grows into Clark Kent (Will Smith) and leaves home to find out who he is. In the NEON Fortress of Solitude, he finds a blue jumpsuit and a penis-shaped NEON jetpack and becomes Superman. In the city of Metropolis, he works for the Daily Planet newspaper and meets Lois Lane (Halle Berry), Jimmy Olsen (Jet Li) and editor Perry White (Dennis Leary). As Superman, Clark must foil the evil Lex Luthor (Edward James Olmos). Look for Britney Spears as a hotdog vendor dressed in NEON.

Blade... The half-human/half-vampire warrior named Blade (Guy Pearce) battles the bloodsuckers constantly with his NEON sword never knowing who his daddy is or what he does. Under the guidance of Whistler (Fred Willard), Blade must track down the evil Deacon Frost (Bob Saget) who plans to enhance all vampires with NEON so they can go out in the daytime. Joining Blade's cause is Karen (Lea Thompson) a doctor of somesort to who wants to have sex with a vampire. DMX shows up as Frost's personal assistant dressed in NEON.

Fantastic Four... Four friends test fly a rocket ship that becomes bombarded by strange cosmic rays that give them extra-ordinary powers. Sue Storm (Britney Spears) turns invisble and is never seen in the movie again, her brother Johnny (Shumacher himself) becomes the NEON Human Torch. Ben Grimm (Kurt Angle) becomes a monsterous, brainless, cigar chomping rocky creature named Thing, and Reed Richards (Antonio Sabato Jr.) gains the ability to stretch certain parts of his body (oddly however, this power only seems to work in the prescence of Grimm).Together they thwart the plans to take over the world by the mind controlling Puppet Masterbater (Paul Ruebens) and his henchman the dreaded, but naive Doctor Doom (John Travolta). Look for a cameo by Jay Z as a street husler dressed in NEON.

[GL's Light]

I would suggest that Joel Schumacher should direct The Rawhide Kid ... but that would be wrong.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

He would be killed, brought back to life an' killed again.

[Jochimus]

If Joel Schumacher made another comic book movie, Jon Peters would probably be his producer, and during the initial pre-production meetings Joel and Jon would start pitching acid-induced and ridiculously-homoerotic ideas at each other...and then their eyes would meet across the table...and then they'd take each other in a passionate embrace...

And I better stop that post right there before I start clawing out my OWN eyeballs.

[bluejake01]

DC and WB wanted to sell toys...they directed Joel Shumaker to make the movies more kid friendly...more cartoony. You can't blame a cat for doing what it's master forced it to do.

Joel Shumaker has made some incredible films in his time, and remains a competent, and talentyed film maker.

[Chris Wallace]

This touches on what I was going to say; Joel Schumacher did things the way that he did b/c he knew nothing about comics & even less about Batman. Like many people, he grew up w/the image of Adam West as the Caped Crusader & never understood the whole Dark Knight mythos. So he went the way that he did & saw the reaction. I'm sure that if he were ever trusted to tackle this genre again, he'd do his research, give the people what they wanted & put out a very worthwhile film.
BTW-bluejake-he's made good movies before AND since Batman.
And did you know-he actually pitched a "Year One" idea to the studio, but rumor has it they just didn't want him involved w/the project.

[Ronny Shade]

I'm going to say this again.

JOEL SCHUMACHER WAS NOT THE ONLY REASON BATMAN FOREVER AND BATMAN AND ROBIN WERE CRAP.

Look at Lost Boys. Flatliners. Phonebooth.

HE IS PERFECTLY CAPABLE OF MAKING A GOOD, DARK, AND WELL-DEVELOPED FILM.

Just give him a good script and a good producer and he'll make us all very proud.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I haven't seen a single film of his I liked.

[PWN3R]

Originally Posted by Ronny Shade

I'm going to say this again.

JOEL SCHUMACHER WAS NOT THE ONLY REASON BATMAN FOREVER AND BATMAN AND ROBIN WERE CRAP.

Look at Lost Boys. Flatliners. Phonebooth.

HE IS PERFECTLY CAPABLE OF MAKING A GOOD, DARK, AND WELL-DEVELOPED FILM.

Just give him a good script and a good producer and he'll make us all very proud.

WOW..like omg...you actually have a point.

I still get scared when I see him and batman in a sentence though...

[Dr. Fate]

So this was just another random "damn Schumacher to Hell" thread?

I've seen some of Joel's other stuff - "Flatliners", "Phantom of the Opera", "Time To Kill", "Falling Down" - and they were very decent. I think with Batman Joel was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. He probably should have jumped ship after "Forever".

I wonder what might have happened if Tim Burton had left after the first Batman film and Joel had been asked to direct the 1992 film, BEFORE the whole "more toyetic" fiasco got underway.

[Ronny Shade]

Originally Posted by Dr. Fate

So this was just another random "damn Schumacher to Hell" thread?

I've seen some of Joel's other stuff - "Flatliners", "Phantom of the Opera", "Time To Kill", "Falling Down" - and they were very decent. I think with Batman Joel was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Very true

He probably should have jumped ship after "Forever".

But then we wouldn't have the hilarity that is Batman and Robin.

I wonder what might have happened if Tim Burton had left after the first Batman film and Joel had been asked to direct the 1992 film, BEFORE the whole "more toyetic" fiasco got underway.

We'd live in a very different world.

[Chris Wallace]

It was more than just that; WB caught a

[Chris Wallace]

Originally Posted by Dr. Fate

So this was just another random "damn Schumacher to Hell" thread?

I've seen some of Joel's other stuff - "Flatliners", "Phantom of the Opera", "Time To Kill", "Falling Down" - and they were very decent. I think with Batman Joel was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. He probably should have jumped ship after "Forever".

I wonder what might have happened if Tim Burton had left after the first Batman film and Joel had been asked to direct the 1992 film, BEFORE the whole "more toyetic" fiasco got underway.

Joel was more than just a victim of his own misinformation; in the wake of "Batman Returns", WB caught a huge backlash from the collective entity that I like to call "Mothers of America". People didn't want the gruesome image of the Penguin on their kids' happy meal bags. They didn't want the dominatrix look of Catwoman or the dark, brutal world that is the mind of Tim Burton. Joel was brought on to deliver a kinder, gentler, more kid-friendly Batman. And that's what he did.
Not that any of this explains the nipples.

[Punisher 04]

Joel should work with Mr. Boll and make the ultimate worst comic book movie ever!!

[Hoedowned]

If Joel Schumacher made another comic book movie we would get:

a) Total crap

or

b) An Ok movie

I mean, we've been bashing his name and everything it represent for 10 years. He may have learned his lesson (or not).

[Mrh7448]

Originally Posted by Chris Wallace

I'm sure that if he were ever trusted to tackle this genre again, he'd do his research, give the people what they wanted, & put out a very worthwhile film.

He really should have done his research in the first place and he could have walked away. Mind you with the size of the paycheck he was probably getting, not really surprised he didn't.

Schmacher is a very competent director and left to his own devices I'm sure he could have pulled off something really excellent.

[The Kid]

I don't know.

how much of the blame can be laid in his hands that forever and the next one weren't really much more than action figure commericials...
I thought the more intimate, non action stuff was excellently handled.

but the rest... what was he thinking?

Now don't kill me... Or well if you must... go ahead and cyber-kill me. I'll still be here tomorrow.

Batman Begins really did seem to me at least like it shared similar problems to batman forever. The intimate character moments are great but the action and onliners don't quite work very well. I see some similarities between Nolan and schumacer's styles actually. both went into the batman's past as a child through flashback, I believe they both showed him falling into the batcave, and both try to have batman fight two villians in one movie. And some parts were cheesy. the better film? begins. yes. But I think forever'd have had a chance of being better if it wasn't trying to force itself to be in some sort of continuity with the past bat films... *braces self*
I'll admit returns is one freaky weird movie and to me it seemed like while also dealing with who batman is on a psychological level, schumacer tried to retain that weird world burton created, so they sort of clashed together. On one side, the hyper stylistic world with cartoony villians and the other, grounded realistic batman begins style character moments. I got that same feeling when scarecrow was being his mask-wearing loony self and contraptions sprung up like that microwave doohicky. It was surreal to see that in a movie which began in such an intense realistic drama...

so I think If schumacer sticks to his own style without following burtons, or giving in to demands from producers, maybe everything would be fine...

wait... actually no. He'd put silly butt shots in it.

[cabel]

I wouldn't be entirely against it, given that he had a great script and a producer that'll keep his ideas in check

[Ben Urich]

I shudder to think of how Schumacher could possibly alter the already-hideous Daredevil movie costume to make it look worse.
I think Owen Gleiberman of Entertainment Weekly said it best when he described Daredevil's movie getup "like Catwoman made over by Revlon."

[Kevin Roegele]

Originally Posted by Chris Wallace

This touches on what I was going to say; Joel Schumacher did things the way that he did b/c he knew nothing about comics & even less about Batman. Like many people, he grew up w/the image of Adam West as the Caped Crusader & never understood the whole Dark Knight mythos. So he went the way that he did & saw the reaction. I'm sure that if he were ever trusted to tackle this genre again, he'd do his research, give the people what they wanted & put out a very worthwhile film.
BTW-bluejake-he's made good movies before AND since Batman.
And did you know-he actually pitched a "Year One" idea to the studio, but rumor has it they just didn't want him involved w/the project.

I completely (respectfully) disagree. Schumacher knows all about Batman. Look at Forever, and more importantly, the stuff cut out of it. It's dark, it;s psychological, it's characters driven by inner demons. Warner Bros asked him to make a light Batman movie with Batman & Robin, and he accepted.

[GL's Light]

Originally Posted by Kevin Roegele

I completely (respectfully) disagree. Schumacher knows all about Batman. Look at Forever, and more importantly, the stuff cut out of it. It's dark, it;s psychological, it's characters driven by inner demons. Warner Bros asked him to make a light Batman movie with Batman & Robin, and he accepted.

Forever was certainly a lot better than B & R, but I disagree that Schumacher got Batman. When Forever was released, Schumacher said that it wasn't realistic that Batman would continue to be driven by a dark obsession with the death of his parents so far into adulthood. The whole point of Forever was that Bruce Wayne essentially got over their death and decided to continue to be Batman for other reasons. Forever's dark beats consisted of a therapy arc designed to get rid of Batman's darkness for the future. That's contradictory to the core Batman mythos.

A quote of Schumacher's that always sticks in my mind is that he said, "They're called comic books, not tragic books." That quote sums up everything that was wrong about Schumacher's mindset in making the Batman films.

[Kevin Roegele]

Originally Posted by GL's Light

Forever was certainly a lot better than B & R, but I disagree that Schumacher got Batman. When Forever was released, Schumacher said that it wasn't realistic that Batman would continue to be driven by a dark obsession with the death of his parents so far into adulthood. The whole point of Forever was that Bruce Wayne essentially got over their death and decided to continue to be Batman for other reasons. Forever's dark beats consisted of a therapy arc designed to get rid of Batman's darkness for the future. That's contradictory to the core Batman mythos.

I commend you for grasping that, as very few people see the themes of the movie behind the neon and gags. I don't see how 'curing' Bruce Wayne is contradictory however. It hasn't been done in the comics, but it could be. It's character development. What I love is that Schumacher actually bothered to do it at all - to clean up Batman's psyche (admittedly, to an extent to allow for a lighter fourth movie). Nobody ever notices these details.

Originally Posted by GL's Light

A quote of Schumacher's that always sticks in my mind is that he said, "They're called comic books, not tragic books." That quote sums up everything that was wrong about Schumacher's mindset in making the Batman films.

Yeah, that gets me irritated too. But Schumacher based 75% of his Batman on the comics of the 40s and 50s (comics that 75% of Hype! posters are not familiar with). They certainly were not 'tragi-books'. And he is faithful to that era.

[Chris Wallace]

Okay.
1-we didn't WANT the 40's/50's era Batman; we'd seen enough of him. We wanted the dark, brooding Batman.
2-he did actually say that upon seeing the first 2 films, he didn't understand why the humor & tongue-in-cheek of the TV series had been ignored. He spoke those words. And in addition to the quote that GL's Light cited-which I was well aware of-he also said things like "Bruce Wayne has a great life" & "If you knew somebody whose parents had been murdered years ago & was still brooding about it, you'd say 'Hey-get over it already'!"
These are not the words of someone who gets Batman.
You know one of the many goofy aspects of "Batman & Robin"-one that we never really talk about-is the fact that cold kills plants.

[Kevin Roegele]

Originally Posted by Chris Wallace

Okay.
1-we didn't WANT the 40's/50's era Batman; we'd seen enough of him. We wanted the dark, brooding Batman.

Who's we? The fans? You personally?

Batman Forever was made for a mass audience. And was the second most successful film of 1995.

Originally Posted by Chris Wallace

2-he did actually say that upon seeing the first 2 films, he didn't understand why the humor & tongue-in-cheek of the TV series had been ignored. He spoke those words. And in addition to the quote that GL's Light cited-which I was well aware of-he also said things like "Bruce Wayne has a great life" & "If you knew somebody whose parents had been murdered years ago & was still brooding about it, you'd say 'Hey-get over it already'!"
These are not the words of someone who gets Batman.

He does get Batman. He gets that there is no definitive version of the character. He gets that Batman can be dark or light. From about 1940 to the mid-60s, Batman was light. During the War years, when comicbook sales were at their peak in the US, Batman (and Robin) was a cheerful, colourful comic. That's the way the population saw Batman, and the way half the population sees Batman today.

Originally Posted by Chris Wallace

You know one of the many goofy aspects of "Batman & Robin"-one that we never really talk about-is the fact that cold kills plants.

Erm.....when does B&R refute that?

[GL's Light]

Yeah, Batman Forever was a smash hit with the general public. Frankly, if Schumacher had maintained the tone of Forever through into B & R he'd probably still be making Batman sequels today. But he pushed B & R so far into campy jokiness that it turned everyone off - Batman fans and the general public alike.