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Old 04-03-2006, 09:56 AM   #1
Morgoth
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Default Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

I mean, would it have been so hard to have Kitty be with Pioter?!

No they had to screw things up and have her be with Bobby.

I really wanted to see the X-men truly come to life but they've messed up so many things like this, and the accents, the ethnic differences that were so cool, these movies are lacking that X-men feel!

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Old 04-03-2006, 10:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Hmmmm...

I think they wanted a love triangle to be set up because it might be another thing that makes Rogue want to take the cure. She dislikes how Kitty can touch Bobby etc

On the ethnic thing, we are getting Kavita Rao, Moira McTaggart and Omega Red maybe so there should be some varied ethnicity(sp?)

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Old 04-03-2006, 10:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

I like the movies but I do agree w\u some things in the movies shouldn't have changed!

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Old 04-03-2006, 10:35 AM   #4
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth
I mean, would it have been so hard to have Kitty be with Pioter?!

No they had to screw things up and have her be with Bobby.

I really wanted to see the X-men truly come to life but they've messed up so many things like this, and the accents, the ethnic differences that were so cool, these movies are lacking that X-men feel!
I know how you feel. I for one thing do NOT like to watch an adaptation that doesn't stay faithful but tries to recreate everything that existed in the original universe. This is the main problem I had with the x-men movies.

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Old 04-03-2006, 11:18 AM   #5
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

I think the reason they changed everything was because there was just no TIME to establish it all.

The X-Men have a 40-year history with rich, deep relationships that just can't be all related in three movies. So they cut corners-- omit stuff, combine stuff, mix it around until it works in the time allotted.

Maybe they should make more of an effort to stay closer to the source. OTOH, they're going for the general movie audience here, not the fans-- I'm sure they'd tell you their changes are done out of practicality, not disrespect.

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Old 04-03-2006, 11:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistopurr83
I know how you feel. I for one thing do NOT like to watch an adaptation that doesn't stay faithful but tries to recreate everything that existed in the original universe. This is the main problem I had with the x-men movies.
Sure there's alot that's happened over the years but they could've easily had Kitty and Peter get together. I've thought of so many ways these movies could've been done that would've been more faithful and no problems.

I've seen cartoons where I thought how can they do this in a half hour and then they did it, and I think why can't they do that in a two hour movie.

There are so many excuses for all comic book movies being dumbed down but, it's all lazy filmmakers, directors who don't get it and don't care and cheap idiots, also actors who don't wanna' play thecharacter as he or she is which is bull, if that's the character you play it that way.

Look at the V for Vendetta thread, there's an interview with Alan Moore and he says how Sean Connery didn't want to play Alan Quartermain the way he was and all of the character went out the window etc.

It is bull crap. I've seen faithful comic movies and it makes me sick I sit there watching it and think, why couldn't X-men or FF been done this good.

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Old 04-03-2006, 12:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Then... psst.... DON'T WATCH THE MOVIES.

That was easy.

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Old 04-03-2006, 03:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjb182
I think the reason they changed everything was because there was just no TIME to establish it all.

The X-Men have a 40-year history with rich, deep relationships that just can't be all related in three movies. So they cut corners-- omit stuff, combine stuff, mix it around until it works in the time allotted.

Maybe they should make more of an effort to stay closer to the source. OTOH, they're going for the general movie audience here, not the fans-- I'm sure they'd tell you their changes are done out of practicality, not disrespect.
(Channeling Hank McCoy):No truer words may have ever been spoken on these boards. Although, practicality is one of those things that is always stretched (or at least should be) with these kinds of films. (goes back to reading Keats)



Me and my friends have had thoughts and discussions about Marvel's attempts to do an X-Men movie in the past (before the first film) and about trying to convert Marvel Comics to film in general: Marvel Comics have to be done RIGHT. Marvel's characters posess to much depth and require to much special f/x to do thin versions of. That said, when done right with deep respect for the material--letting it stand on its own the way it was meant to, the results can and should be great. If you're not going to do Marvel Comics RIGHT, DON'T DO IT AT ALL. The long standing source material and fans deserve better. I have long believed that the soap operish at times nature of the X-men comics would perhaps be better served with a weekly TV show, where such things as character developement (a huge part of the X-Men) are allowed to grow. Perhaps even a miniseries--an expensive, elaborate miniseries...............yet another risk.

Marvel Comics films require commitment ($$$$$), vision (artistic), respect and confidence in the source material. The problem is, Marvel and Fox want to make a buck first and foremost. Secondly, very few studios are going to be willing to mortgage the farm. WB took a risk with PJ and his LOTR trilogy. But they comitted to and believed in his vision. Fox took a risk with GL and his early SW trology. The rest is the stuff of legends. In truth and reality, films like LOTR and the early SW films (the grandiose epics) are a rare breed and are seldomly done because of the risks involved. But when they do perchance to venture out of the box of conformity and normalcy......Fox and Marvel had a chance to make one of those rare breeds and were simply to scared to do so. IMO, it truely shows how much faith not only Fox had in X-Men, but moreso Marvel's lack of confidence in their own source material. That my friends, is sad.

As for the general audience.....everybody enjoys a great film, whether they appreciate it is another story. Not everyone appreciated LOTR, but they sure as hell enjoyed it.

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Old 04-03-2006, 05:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth
It is bull crap. I've seen faithful comic movies and it makes me sick I sit there watching it and think, why couldn't X-men or FF been done this good.
Yes it is bull crap. A "faithful" comic adaptation can be successful as long as there is good writing and directing behind it. So many film franchises that took many steps away from reality managed to be real successful b/c they had good writing, good directing and good visual fx put into them.

I don't think F4 can be compared to x-men b/c they practically had nothing in common. F4 took a more comic oriented approach and stayed much more faithful to the original F4 comics (aside from Doom's portrayal). F4 was successful but the only reasons it wasn't well received was b/c of weak writing and direction. But at least the people behind F4 were confident in making it look like a more comic based adaptation.

Also the 90's x-men cartoon (which ran for 5 years) managed to be really successful in the more comic based direction it went in. It lasted longer than X-Men Evolution did for god sakes! That shows x-men can still be successful as a film adaptation even if it stays close to the comics (take Spider-Man and Sin City for instance). Now what I'm trying to say is, a more comic oriented approach is not gonna stop a comicbook film from being successful.

I don't know if this is true but, I once heard that even Fox admits x-men is better off as a TV show. Perhaps this is why their not meaning to make more than 3 movies and why the Wolverine spin-off will be a prequel. I still think some TV studio out there should try making x-men into a more comic based live action TV show instead of trying to make too many sequels to the films.


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Old 04-03-2006, 06:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

The love triangle imo is kinda useless i would love to see Kitty with Piotr like in the comics.

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Old 04-03-2006, 06:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

C'Mon folks...they've been focusing on jean and logan instead of jean and scott, who's relationship got a helluva lot farther. what makes you think they'd get any other realtionships right?

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Old 04-03-2006, 07:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
Then... psst.... DON'T WATCH THE MOVIES.

That was easy.
I just thought this post needed to be read again. If you want the comics, read the comics.

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Old 04-04-2006, 11:50 AM   #13
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

I just wish Colossus had a Russian accent. I mean how hard is that? Get a muscular Russian dude and youre set!

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Old 04-04-2006, 07:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

he only had one line in the last movie, maybe with presumably more lines in this film, he will have the accent

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Old 04-06-2006, 05:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Here's one more thing I forgot to mention. Bobby and Kitty being hooked up is something else they took from Ultimate X-Men. X3 looks like it sticking closer to the Ultimate universe than the 616 universe. Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg are not the hardcore x-men fans they claim to be.

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Old 04-06-2006, 08:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

I think Ultimate took it from the movies actually.

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Old 04-07-2006, 12:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Cartoons = for kids

The movies aren't for kids.

I love how people say the movies are "dumbed down" when quite frankly, they are a lot more believable and intelligent than the comics are...

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Old 04-07-2006, 01:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

In some ways,yes.In others,not.

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Old 04-07-2006, 04:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

"Cartoons = for kids"

NOT always Nell! Do you think R rated Japanese animes and american cartoons like South Park, Drawn Together and Adult Swim = for kids too??? I certainly wouldn't say so.

"The movies aren't for kids."

And what age group of kids would that be? Grade schoolers, middle schoolers, or high schoolers?

"I love how people say the movies are "dumbed down" when quite frankly, they are a lot more believable and intelligent than the comics are..."

They say "dumbed down" b/c of the way the characters are portrayed in the films is an insult to the original 616 characters. So the way their made to look on screen makes them look dumb compared to their comic personas. Besides, saying "more intelligent and believable" is just a matter of opinion.

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Old 04-07-2006, 08:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

I honestly don't see a problem with it.

Have Kitty and Pitor been together throughout their entire comics run? No. It's not they're having Cyclops and Storm together or something completely out of the ordinary. I actually like the idea of Bobby and Kitty. Never really liked Bobby and Rogue, but I was okay with it.

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Old 04-08-2006, 12:13 AM   #21
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistopurr83
"Cartoons = for kids"

NOT always Nell! Do you think R rated Japanese animes and american cartoons like South Park, Drawn Together and Adult Swim = for kids too??? I certainly wouldn't say so.

"The movies aren't for kids."

And what age group of kids would that be? Grade schoolers, middle schoolers, or high schoolers?

"I love how people say the movies are "dumbed down" when quite frankly, they are a lot more believable and intelligent than the comics are..."

They say "dumbed down" b/c of the way the characters are portrayed in the films is an insult to the original 616 characters. So the way their made to look on screen makes them look dumb compared to their comic personas. Besides, saying "more intelligent and believable" is just a matter of opinion.
Yes, but the X-Men cartoon was on Fox KIDS...

And no, the movie didn't dumb the characters down. It made the characters, and the universe, something to be taken seriously. It's not just some entertaining popcorn flick, which it was it would have been had they followed the comics more, as you say. There would have been much more unbelievably costumes, and powers, and dialogue, that it would have been nothing more than a Power Rangers quality movie.

But Bryan Singer took these characters seriously, and turned them into something more than just this summer's superheroes (i.e. Fantastic 4 or even The Hulk)

So no, he didn't "dumb" them down. He smarted them up. They can be taken seriously now. The comics couldn't. And this is coming from someone who enjoys the comics and the cartoons greatly.

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Old 04-08-2006, 12:24 AM   #22
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

The Hulk was barely a superhero action flick,so that doesnt help your argument.

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Old 04-08-2006, 01:21 AM   #23
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

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So no, he didn't "dumb" them down. He smarted them up. They can be taken seriously now. The comics couldn't. And this is coming from someone who enjoys the comics and the cartoons greatly.
Until recently, when I was a fan of the movies who wasn't reading many of the comics, I would have agreed with this. But the more I read, the less I think this is so.

The intelligent core of the X-Men... the characters, the anti-discrimination themes... are still there, especially in the earlier, Claremont stuff. What changes, though, are the conventions: They're similar people doing similar kinds of things, but in the movies, the X-Men act less like super-heroes and more like characters in a sci-fi action movie.

Which is probably what they had to do, for the sake of those people who-- and I know several-- would say of a faithful adaptation, "Sure, that's cool, but it's a COMIC BOOK. So it's all just silly, right?"

It depends on what kinds of disbelief you're willing to spend. I don't think the movies smartened them up. I don't think they dumbed them down any more than they had to do to make them fit in 2 hours.

I do think they made them more generally accessible, which people will tell you is a bad thing but it isn't really.

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Old 04-08-2006, 04:52 PM   #24
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay
Yes, but the X-Men cartoon was on Fox KIDS...

And no, the movie didn't dumb the characters down. It made the characters, and the universe, something to be taken seriously. It's not just some entertaining popcorn flick, which it was it would have been had they followed the comics more, as you say. There would have been much more unbelievably costumes, and powers, and dialogue, that it would have been nothing more than a Power Rangers quality movie.

But Bryan Singer took these characters seriously, and turned them into something more than just this summer's superheroes (i.e. Fantastic 4 or even The Hulk)

So no, he didn't "dumb" them down. He smarted them up. They can be taken seriously now. The comics couldn't. And this is coming from someone who enjoys the comics and the cartoons greatly.
Dude I don't know what your talking about and your argument doesn't prove anything. Once again, it's nothing but a matter of your opinion. Enough said.

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Old 04-08-2006, 05:02 PM   #25
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

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Originally Posted by Morgoth
It is bull crap. I've seen faithful comic movies and it makes me sick I sit there watching it and think, why couldn't X-men or FF been done this good.
What movies are those? Please share. your not thinking realistic. I love Brain Singers Vision of X-Men because he made the Characters believeable to this world. Nothing over the top just perfect. Most of the X characters would look so stupid if they kept it to the T and if they follow the Comics fully the Movies would interest people besides the Fans.

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