Ben Reilly on the New Avengers or a team that steams from Civil War

[deathshead2]

I had a idea for a new west cosat avengers with Ben joining the team now if only remember how it happened?

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I had a whole big convoluted Clone Saga return done in '97 which I condensed to what I was gonna turn into Marvel before they nixed Epic. Bastards.

[RAMORE]

Originally Posted by Dragon

But in all the examples you give- Batman family (I hate that childish name), Jason Todd, none of them are direct- EXACT copies of the original character. Granted I think even having a Batgirl or Superboy is too much, but Reilly is worse.

And since you agree that it's the writing and not the character, then why would we need a second Spider-Man? All they have to do is produce good stories with the original, made more difficult if there are multiple Spider-Men. As for a Ben Reilly return being able to allow them to maintain the marriage et al- It wouldn't. Again, the concern is being able to tell stories with PETER PARKER being single. Not just Spider-Man being single.

IF Ben Reilly had unique abilities and costume, that would be one thing. But additional characters with the same powers and similar look waters down the original.

I understand that there are a number of folks who like Ben Reilly, unfortunately you guys are casualties of Marvel's bad editorial policy, just as those of us who've now dropped the titles due to all the silliness happeneing in the current stories. If Marvel was simply producing good Spidey stories and didn't decide to take such ridiculous paths this problem wouldn't exist.

And Jason Todd isn't a valid comparison. The fans voted for Robin 2's death. The Jason Todd that returned is The Red Hood and bears no resemblance to the character killed off 16 years ago other than his name. Agaijn, if Ben Reilly had different super powers and costume, I might not have a problem with it. But I maintain that more Spider-Men isn't the answer.

Well in that case here are the two costumes Ben reilly has been known to wear:




and her is ol petey's curent duds



Also about the powers:

Well ben has 10 ton strength, speed, can stick to walls and spidey sense so you can't sneak up on him plus ingenious equipment of his own design like tracers, stingers 9little needles shot at which drug you), impact webbing, and regular webbing.

While peter has organic webbing, he also has the old powers plus new ones including the addition of new "stingers, think wolverine like bony spikey that come out of his wrist to stab people" as well as upgraded speed and spider-sense. The last issue of "The Other" series revealed three of Spider-Man's new abilities including the ability to see in the dark, the ability to attach things to his back (a variation of his wall-crawling), and an ability to "feel" his environment as he can detect vibrations from his immediate surroundings due to his web and hairs on his arms. Oh and don't forget his nifty new suit makes him even stronger, allows him to fly, stop bullets, change clothes, see better and different light spectrums as well as a few thing we haven't seen yet.

And to top it all off diffent names and hair color so how about that smarty pants:P

[RAMORE]

deathshead2 and wolvie 25th i would like to hear those stories if you care to share.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

See th' Wolvie's Works link in my sig? Click it and you can check out th' first 3 issues. This summer I'm hopin' to continue th' story and get it out, but hafta see how time allows as I'm workin' on another monthly at th' moment (th' first link in th' sig).

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by RAMORE

Well in that case here are the two costumes Ben reilly has been known to wear:




and her is ol petey's curent duds



Also about the powers:

Well ben has 10 ton strength, speed, can stick to walls and spidey sense so you can't sneak up on him plus ingenious equipment of his own design like tracers, stingers 9little needles shot at which drug you), impact webbing, and regular webbing.

While peter has organic webbing, he also has the old powers plus new ones including the addition of new "stingers, think wolverine like bony spikey that come out of his wrist to stab people" as well as upgraded speed and spider-sense. The last issue of "The Other" series revealed three of Spider-Man's new abilities including the ability to see in the dark, the ability to attach things to his back (a variation of his wall-crawling), and an ability to "feel" his environment as he can detect vibrations from his immediate surroundings due to his web and hairs on his arms. Oh and don't forget his nifty new suit makes him even stronger, allows him to fly, stop bullets, change clothes, see better and different light spectrums as well as a few thing we haven't seen yet.

And to top it all off diffent names and hair color so how about that smarty pants:P

Nah man. I don't mean a superficially different costume and powers that differ from Spidey because he now has powers that most people want to see gone anyway.

When Ben was around he and Spidey's powers were identical, because he was supposed to be the "real" Spider-Man.

I'm saying if he had altogether different powers. No wall crawling or agility. No swinging from weblines. I mean make him a completely differnt character. Sure, maybe he could maintain spider powers and motif, but make them differnet from Peter's. I'll give some bad examples that express the lines I'm speaking along. Say he casts an energy web that traps people. Say he breaths a toxic gas. Say he got the sucky stingers. Say he had a gliding device strapped to his back that released a web-parachute like what spiders fly with. Whatever. But not utilizing powers that are like Peter's.

[Guyverjay]

Hell bring back Ben and give HIM the iron spidey suit and pete can wear the red and blues

[RAMORE]

Originally Posted by Guyverjay

Hell bring back Ben and give HIM the iron spidey suit and pete can wear the red and blues

i'd be sooooooo OK with that Ben always did better on a team than pete.

[RAMORE]

Originally Posted by Dragon

Nah man. I don't mean a superficially different costume and powers that differ from Spidey because he now has powers that most people want to see gone anyway.

When Ben was around he and Spidey's powers were identical, because he was supposed to be the "real" Spider-Man.

I'm saying if he had altogether different powers. No wall crawling or agility. No swinging from weblines. I mean make him a completely differnt character. Sure, maybe he could maintain spider powers and motif, but make them differnet from Peter's. I'll give some bad examples that express the lines I'm speaking along. Say he casts an energy web that traps people. Say he breaths a toxic gas. Say he got the sucky stingers. Say he had a gliding device strapped to his back that released a web-parachute like what spiders fly with. Whatever. But not utilizing powers that are like Peter's.

Ha ha i know that's not what you meant just being a smartalick. i would be ok with him as different powers, and no spider themed costume. He was such a great character i would take him back with no powers really just a super suit. Take spidey's current suit, even if a regualr dud was in that it would rock and since it can change appearanc it could just be black with silver trim of somekind to it.

[RAMORE]

Actually that gives me an idea for a story.

[Doomed_hero]

Superboy Prime will hit the cyrstal wall so hard this time, it crosses over universes and brings Scarlet Spider back from the ash

[RAMORE]

yes that works for me no more retarded than how they brought aunt may back

[deathshead2]

Originally Posted by RAMORE

deathshead2 and wolvie 25th i would like to hear those stories if you care to share.

I can't remember all of it but I remember the team someone bringing him back to life you know what happend after he was impaled and turned to dust. they somehow turn the dust back into ben now if I only remember the rest of the deatils of how where and why. Dang I really should have wrote it down.

[spider greg]

Steams?

[spidey-dude]

i think he meant stems but dude seriously you could have geussed that if you read the thread

[spider greg]

Originally Posted by spidey-dude

i think he meant stems but dude seriously you could have geussed that if you read the thread

Jesus....H.....Christ. I'm well aware of what he meant, I was having a little fun. but seriously........Dude, you could have guessed that if you didn't have a hair up your a$$.

[spidey-dude]

oh thats your idea of fun okay....i would never have guessed because i would never find that fun.....maybe my expectations are just higher

[spider greg]

Originally Posted by spidey-dude

oh thats your idea of fun okay....i would never have guessed because i would never find that fun.....maybe my expectations are just higher

*Sigh* This is usually the part where I come up with the obligitory counter attacking insult that goes on and on and ends up being a waste of time. This is what I get for trying to get to come on these boards and try to have a little enjoyment. I just don't understand why someone would attack another person without getting all the facts., obviously you're really angry about something in your life and it really doesn't have anything to do with me, so I will cease to be offended. Just a little friendly advice, and I wear Im not trying to be condescending, but if you stop and take an honest look at yourself you'll see who your real enemy is. I'm sure you're a good guy when you want to be.

[Citizen_Kaine]

What the christ are you talking about? You're the one who started this pointless squabble with quite possibly the strangest insult of all time.

[Rez]

Why does every thread on this subject have to turn into a stupid argument?

By the way, that's rhetorical.

Anyway, Ben.

I love him, would love to see him back. I am certainly not a causuality of Marvel's bad decisions; I simply like the charecter. Both of his costumes are different enough from Peter's primary costume for me; in fact I prefer them both over the original. The Scarlet costume is by and large one of the greatest costumes in comics.
As for how to bring him back, it would be very easy should someone be so inclined. As it's been stated countless times before, the actual Ben Reilly would not have turned into dust.
His different look and personality would be more than enough to carry on his own as a charecter; whether he be on a team or alone, east coast or west, his own supporting cast, ideals, and the brother aspect between the two Spidermen opens vast story opportunities.

[Geko]

How to bring Ben back isn't an issue at all. As I recently said in another thread, death in the comics is really only a minor inconvenience
And whether or not to bring back Ben isn't even the topic of the thread.
The topic is, WHAT IF he was brought back and put into a team. If you ask me, that's the angle that makes it acceptable. I don't want a bunch of Spider-Men running around either, I don't want them using Ben to try to fix Peter, but bringing Ben back to place him on a team is great. Fans get the character back, but in a way that he doesn't need to interact with the rest of the Spider-verse. So we still have solo Spidey and we have a Spider-Man in a team. (hopefully back as the Scarlet Spider, seeing as how the Spider-Ben costume is now more associated with Spider-Girl, and he wouldn't be able to call himself Spider-Man)

Now if that's still too many Spiders for ya, we could always alter his powers a bit as part of his resurrection.

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by Dragon

I don't read ANY Spider-Man now because of boneheaded decisions like Clones, Stingers and Totems. The reason Spider-Man is in the hole he's in right now is unoriginal thinking.

Tell me- what is the upside of having two Spider-Men? The Spider-Man concept is already overexposed and lacking in quality- and now you expect Marvel to come up with interesting things to do with twice as much Spider-Man?

And let's be clear- there's also a very simple reason why Ben Reilly isn't around anymore. By-enlarge the audience doesn't want him. Spider-Man's alter ego is Peter Parker. Sure- you may be a fan of the character for whatever reason. You'll find someone who'll bite down on anything. There are fans of the current things going on in the books. But most folks aren't biting.

So you don't read spider-man because of decisions like clones? Does that mean that you haven't been reading Spider-man since the mid 70's? Because they've been around a while.

And by and large the majority of people didn't hate Ben, they hated the Clone story once Marvel milked it dry and draged it on for about a year longer then needed. Many people actually liked many parts of the Clone saga, Ben as a character for one, the Death of Aunt may was a wonderfully done story, Kane was a great villian, and the introduction of a Baby into Spider-man's life would have been great.

[Captivated]

Originally Posted by Dragon

No more freakin' clones. No more rip-offs. No more Spideys with boobs. ONE Spider-Man. JUST ONE. Come up with something ORIGINAL.

Right. And just ONE means NOT just one of MANY... NOT just another chosen by some bogus spider-god.

[stillanerd]

Originally Posted by Captivated

Right. And just ONE means NOT just one of MANY... NOT just another chosen by some bogus spider-god.

Agreed. (Besides, Araña fits that bill already )

BTW, newsflash to those of you who are hard-core Ben Reilly fans and who are eager for him to return: It's not going to happen. If anything, Kaine will probably come back long before Ben Reilly ever does. Plus, if Spidey was cloned AGAIN it doesn't mean that clone would be Ben Reilly; it would just be another carbon copy of Peter with his memories, NOT Ben Reilly's, who himself had memories that he himself never experienced either.

And yes, while I liked Ben Reilly as well simply because of the "little brother/cousin" angle that was played, here's the dirty little secret:
The only reason why Ben Reilly was popular was because he was how Peter Parker should've been written had the writers of the Clone Saga actually wrote Spider-Man in character instead of being so hell-bent on replacing him. In short, Ben Reilly fans are closet Peter Parker fans. (*stillanerd now braces for the impending and inevitable beatdown from Citizen Kaine and all of his CWO buddies and he calls upon the powers of the dark side )

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Ben rules. 'Nuff said.