You didn't listen, people...

[Gregatron]

...I told you that things would get worse and worse and worse. I told you that most changes to a character and his core concepts are detrimental, and that the illusion of change is the safest, sanest bet.

And now look at just how dire things are.


"Wait! You're wrong! JMS and Joey Q have a plan! They're gonna retcon and reboot everything in a few months, and everything'll be better! Just wait a little longer, and it'll be better!"


Wrong.

Any such "solution" (at least one that's concocted by the current Powers-That-Be) will simply dig Spider-Man into an even deeper and danker hole than the one he's been in for years, now.

And desperate fanboys will try to convince themselves that it's okay, and that if everyone waits just "a little while longer", it'll all magically get better.

Nevermind that these same "saviors" who will ostensibly dig Spider-Man out of this never-ending hole are the very same people who jammed him even further down into it than he already was, right?

[The Fonz]

You seem to have a problem with the way Spider-Man is headed. Do like me and stop reading the book.

[Gregatron]

Did that after "Sins Past", friend.

[stillanerd]

Welcome back Gregatron. Guess you are well deserved of the title "Prophet of Spider-Man's ultimate doom."

Seriously, I think part of the reason why some posters gave you the brush off was because of your stance on the Spider-Man marriage (which I do like BTW) which became a little repetitive. However, I will say that, having read some of your posts over at Byrne robotics, you definately are right on target with regards to how far off track Spider-Man has become.

Also, the irony doesn't escape me in the slightest that the very people who brought Spider-Man to this state are going to "fix" him by next year. Sure, I believe Spider-Man's secret identity will be restored--especially in time for the third Spider-Man movie--but whatever "solution" they come up with will probably be contrivied and the stain of a "Peter publicly revealing himself as Spider-Man" will linger, much like the stain of "Spider-Man was a clone" and "Gwen Stacy slept with Norman Osborn" will be.

Ah Gregatron. Rarely have you and I seen eye to eye. I wouldn't say that makes you my nemesis, but upon every occasion in which we have butted heads...we never agree. This however, is not one of those times. I know I have often berated you because of your Looney Tunes stance on comic books (characters that never progress from their origin, thus safely remaining true to their character), I can agree that in all four decades of Spider-Man's history, it has only taken four of those years, to utterly undo the previous 36 years. His list of powers are not only increasing, but some of his older powers are completely different. His mannerisms have changed, as has his costume (he no longer even has the same color scheme). Much of what makes Spider-Man, Spider-Man, is very much a dead thing. All that is left to him, is humor...and even that fades in the constant face of mythyical ressurections and spider-gods. I still remain hopeful though. At some point, things will crash down around them, and somebody else will have to pick up the pieces. This is what happened with the clones, and that is what will happen with spider-gods and unmaskings.

[Gregatron]

Originally Posted by Arach Knight

Ah Gregatron. Rarely have you and I seen eye to eye. I wouldn't say that makes you my nemesis, but upon every occasion in which we have butted heads...we never agree. This however, is not one of those times. I know I have often berated you because of your Looney Tunes stance on comic books (characters that never progress from their origin, thus safely remaining true to their character), I can agree that in all four decades of Spider-Man's history, it has only taken four of those years, to utterly undo the previous 36 years. His list of powers are not only increasing, but some of his older powers are completely different. His mannerisms have changed, as has his costume (he no longer even has the same color scheme). Much of what makes Spider-Man, Spider-Man, is very much a dead thing. All that is left to him, is humor...and even that fades in the constant face of mythyical ressurections and spider-gods. I still remain hopeful though. At some point, things will crash down around them, and somebody else will have to pick up the pieces. This is what happened with the clones, and that is what will happen with spider-gods and unmaskings.

As usual, you misinterpret my past statements.

Still, this is a first step.

In time, you will call me "Master".

[Citizen_Kaine]

I've stopped reading 616 Spidey as well, lots of people seem to, you've missed some good times Greg

Originally Posted by Gregatron

As usual, you misinterpret my past statements.

Still, this is a first step.

In time, you will call me "Master".

Haha...a mix of Star Wars humor, with a Spider-Man discussion. Somethings in life, only nerds can do or enjoy.

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I never had a problem with Greg thinkin' current Spidey is crap. Hell, I say that daily. We've all said that. I have a problem with his "keep everything stagnant" attitude, though. And there's the pretentiousness which likes to ebb through...grating.

I stand by my stance that character evolution is NOT bad, but change fer the sake of change is. Up until the clone saga (which I liked, FYI), there was character evolution. Since, it's all about change fer the sake of change, and that is our true enemy.

[ru8up75]

I totally agree with you stillanerd, I dont know how people who screwed Spidey up so bad are ever gonna fix it to a point that fans can ever stop hating Marvel's guts for what they have done, they would really need to hit this one out of the park.

[hulkamania85]

Dude, you haven't said anything 100 other people haven't said already. So I don't get the whole "I told you so" stuff, when everyone was figuring it out at the same time.

[Won '08]

Spidey's current direction is fantastic in my eyes. No prophecy has been fulfilled. Keep trying !

[Kevin]

when you read this, don't mind me, i'm crazy. anyway, you know what would be funny? if marvel has been destroying spidey on person for the last few years. bascically, he marvel's BIGGEST character. yes, even bigger then-- OH MY GOD-- WOLVERINE!! if spidey goes down, ALL goes down. and that would be the end of the marvel company. You're like "what? shut the f*** up!you're making no sense!! why would they destroy themselves like that?!?" why? fresh blood. fresh blood called ULTIMATE marvel. again, don't mind me, it's just that if i thought that everything that made the company famous in the FIRST place was wrong, i'd do this. also, it's because i'm stupid.

[Doc Destruction]

I'm in the same boat you are, Greg. Sins Past was absolutely the beginning of the end. I've been saying that for awhile, and trying desperately to understand why anyone likes what is going on right now.

Ah well, at least I have a heavier wallet to go with my heavier heart I guess.

[Dangerous]

Originally Posted by Gregatron

...I told you that things would get worse and worse and worse. I told you that most changes to a character and his core concepts are detrimental, and that the illusion of change is the safest, sanest bet.

And now look at just how dire things are.


"Wait! You're wrong! JMS and Joey Q have a plan! They're gonna retcon and reboot everything in a few months, and everything'll be better! Just wait a little longer, and it'll be better!"


Wrong.

Any such "solution" (at least one that's concocted by the current Powers-That-Be) will simply dig Spider-Man into an even deeper and danker hole than the one he's been in for years, now.

And desperate fanboys will try to convince themselves that it's okay, and that if everyone waits just "a little while longer", it'll all magically get better.

Nevermind that these same "saviors" who will ostensibly dig Spider-Man out of this never-ending hole are the very same people who jammed him even further down into it than he already was, right?

Buddy I dunno what ya talking about.

I dropped ASM like a bad habit months ago and have known for a long time that the situation is critical. Now w/ Spidey unmasking it seems there is no limit to how crap stuff will get, and I am definatley under no illusion about any of the current writers fixing anything.

[Won '08]

Greg is just drunk off of whiskey. He thinks things are horrible.


When they aren't.

[SpideyInATree]

Originally Posted by Won '08

When they aren't.

It depends on how people are looking at it.

Sins Past and The Other were horrible ideas and The Other was poorly, poorly executed and made the totem storyline, in my opinion, worthless.

Sins Remembered actually made things WORSE with that part of the story, if that was even possible.

There have been a lot of bright spots though that have been overlooked because of all the focus on the negativity.

However, I'm behind the unmasking...as it's a plot idea I've been wanting to see for many, many years. My only concern is how they execute getting his secret identity. You know it's going to happen soon. Peter is going to find out that Tony Stark was sort of manipulating him to use him as an example to further push for the heroes to register. Pete's GONNA be pissed, and unfortunately for Pete...all his rogues are gonna be gunning for him.

I see nothing but excitement and intrigue on the horizon. As I said, it all depends on how you're viewing things. If you're picking up these books with nothing but negative thoughts on your mind and wanting to hate JMS and Quesada all the time. Yeah, you're going to be VERY disappointed.

[Won '08]

Originally Posted by SpideyInATree

It depends on how people are looking at it.

Sins Past and The Other were horrible ideas and The Other was poorly, poorly executed and made the totem storyline, in my opinion, worthless.

Sins Remembered actually made things WORSE with that part of the story, if that was even possible.

There have been a lot of bright spots though that have been overlooked because of all the focus on the negativity.

However, I'm behind the unmasking...as it's a plot idea I've been wanting to see for many, many years. My only concern is how they execute getting his secret identity. You know it's going to happen soon. Peter is going to find out that Tony Stark was sort of manipulating him to use him as an example to further push for the heroes to register. Pete's GONNA be pissed, and unfortunately for Pete...all his rogues are gonna be gunning for him.

I see nothing but excitement and intrigue on the horizon. As I said, it all depends on how you're viewing things. If you're picking up these books with nothing but negative thoughts on your mind and wanting to hate JMS and Quesada all the time. Yeah, you're going to be VERY disappointed.

I love the Other storyline but it was poorly executed. Very poorly written, beyond that sins past can be retconned. everything else just needs a good ol re-write.

[SpideyInATree]

Originally Posted by Won '08

I love the Other storyline but it was poorly executed. Very poorly written, beyond that sins past can be retconned. everything else just needs a good ol re-write.

Easier said than done. Look what Marvel did when they went retconning after the Clone Saga. Baby May gets written into obscurity. Resurrection of Aunt May.

Very, very, very bad moves.

Yes, the powers that be may be different but sometimes retconning everything is the wrong thing to do in some cases.

The unmasking? Yes, I can see that.

But Sins Past? It's best to ignore the hell out of it, personally.

And The Other? A little harder to ignore, but to make the totem storyline make better sense I ignore The Other and it works just fine with me.

But if they've got a nice retcon in place, by all means lets see it. I just don't want anymore Baby May's and Aunt May resurrection-like things happening again.

[savemarvel]

Originally Posted by SpideyInATree

Easier said than done. Look what Marvel did when they went retconning after the Clone Saga. Baby May gets written into obscurity. Resurrection of Aunt May.

Very, very, very bad moves.

Yes, the powers that be may be different but sometimes retconning everything is the wrong thing to do in some cases.

The unmasking? Yes, I can see that.

But Sins Past? It's best to ignore the hell out of it, personally.

And The Other? A little harder to ignore, but to make the totem storyline make better sense I ignore The Other and it works just fine with me.

But if they've got a nice retcon in place, by all means lets see it. I just don't want anymore Baby May's and Aunt May resurrection-like things happening again.

I rather have Baby May back than the crap Joe Q is putting out now. At least Baby May would have been a step forward for the character than the mile backwards Joe Q and his army of mediocre writers are doing with him now.

[roach]

I have repented...the Spider-comics are crap

[SpideyInATree]

Originally Posted by savemarvel

I rather have Baby May back than the crap Joe Q is putting out now. At least Baby May would have been a step forward for the character than the mile backwards Joe Q and his army of mediocre writers are doing with him now.

That's kind of what I was saying. They should have just had MJ and Pete get Baby May back instead of doing it the way they did. Now THAT was a time of some seriously messed up poo poo decisions.

But to use mediocre writers...eh. I wouldn't.

[savemarvel]

Originally Posted by SpideyInATree

.

The unmasking? Yes, I can see that.

The unmasking was the worse decision by a comic book company ever and trust me, Marvel will pay for it.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Originally Posted by roach

I have repented...the Spider-comics are crap

Good... Good.... Your hate has made you powerful.

[SpideyInATree]

Originally Posted by savemarvel

The unmasking was the worse decision by a comic book company ever and trust me, Marvel will pay for it.

You haven't really read comic books for very long have you? Heh.

And tis but your opinion, I think it's a great idea.

But what I was talking about was retconing the unmasking, according to an interview with Kevin Smith he's confirmed that Marvel has a back door for putting the secret identity back with Spidey. I'm just apprehensive as to what it will be and how it will come about.