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Old 06-25-2006, 04:03 AM   #1
chiefchirpa
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Default What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Tony Starks obviously has more than Bruce Wayne. Corporation that felt more real than Wayne Enterprise and without the need of Lucius Fox and dead father's will. A real Science Engineering education as opposed to wasting the entire youth life traveling to exotic places just to beat people. An ever-improving exosuit that can beat all BatCopter, BatWing, BatMobile, BatTank, and so on combined.

So what's keeping him to become one of the elites in Marvel Universe?

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Old 06-25-2006, 08:59 AM   #2
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Iron Man is considered one of the elites, however, what we run into with Marvel, is Spider Man, Wolverine and the Fantastic Four seem to run the show in Marvel. Unlike DC where they have "the big three", Batman,Wonder Women and Superman, Marvel doesn't limit itself to three major characters, Marvel has many more interesting and realistic heros and villians.
Iron Man gets his due, he is more popular now than just about anytime in his 40 year history, how popular he may be after Civil War isn't clear, he appears to be on the wrong side in that event, and Iron Man is getting flake for it by non-Iron Man fans and Iron Man fans alike, (blame Marvel management). If you read New Avengers, Bendis, does justice to Iron Man, he's the guideing force of the team and is writin the way Iron Man should be.
So, will Iron Man ever be the Batman of Marvel, he's closer than ever and only time and the fans will tell.

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Old 06-25-2006, 01:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

i hope he doesn't end up being considered a SUPERVILLIAN after civil war

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Old 06-25-2006, 10:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Y'know, I really don't know. I think one of the most obvious things is simply that Batman's been around longer, has had more exposure in really all forms of media, and that's ingrained him into the public consciousness more right there.

I do think there probably are other reasons as well; maybe Batman's noir/gothic style is a bit more popular and well accepted than Iron Man's more mundane surroundings.

I think maybe personality-wise Batman is a bit more of a badass than Tony is, and that is a pretty importan thing with comics' main audience. Currently, at least.

Like I said, I'm not totally sure, but I think those are at least a few things that might have propelled Batman higher than Iron Man.

And a few corrections...

Batman did more than just "wasting the entire youth life traveling to exotic places just to beat people". He has doctorate-level knowledge not only in science, but also in chemistry, criminalogy, and possibly a few more academic areas. Then of course physically Batman is in Olympian-level condition, and without question is the best martial artist in the DCU.

Also, "Marvel has many more interesting and realistic heros and villians." is little more than conjecture. And incorrect conjecture at that, IMO. DC hardly limits itself any more than Marvels in terms of character exposure in comics. Maybe they haven't been churning out movies about lesser known characters like Marvel has in the past few years, but it appears that'll be changing relatively soon.

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Old 06-25-2006, 11:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

"Doctorate level knowledge" is what the writers do to make a BatGod. Tony Stark is dedicated to his mechanical/electrical engineering invention by creating high-tech exosuits with his own hands. In the Batman lore or at least in Batman Begins, there's never a sure thing that Bruce Wayne creates Batman vehicles and gadgets. I'm sorry, but Iron Man is a tad more realistic than Batman.

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Old 06-26-2006, 01:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefchirpa
"Doctorate level knowledge" is what the writers do to make a BatGod.
No, it's not. Batman's background in science and criminlogy go back to his origins in 1939, and has been present throughout his history. Hell, even in the Adam West show, Batman was shown to be a scientist. I believe the "BatGod" problem(?) didn't arise until Grant Morrison started overpowering Batman in his JLA comics of the '90s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefchirpa
Tony Stark is dedicated to his mechanical/electrical engineering invention by creating high-tech exosuits with his own hands. In the Batman lore or at least in Batman Begins, there's never a sure thing that Bruce Wayne creates Batman vehicles and gadgets.
On this you're right. Batman generally leaves the creation of his relative arsenal to others. But then a scientist is different than a mechanical engineer, isn't it?

Batman's forte is investigation. Mechanical engineering is hardly an important part of investigation (hell, it's not a part at all). I was merely bringing to your attention that Batman is the World's Greatest Detective. And does indeed do more than just kick ass. A fact you would know if you based your analysis more on the actual comics instead of Batman Begins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefchirpa
I'm sorry, but Iron Man is a tad more realistic than Batman.
I never made any mention of realism. That's another matter entirely. Hell, I could argue that realism doesn't even have anything to do with the quality of a character.

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Last edited by CConn; 06-26-2006 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 06-26-2006, 11:05 AM   #7
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

I thought Iron-man was Marvels version of Batman marvel just elimanated all the crazy gadgets and utility belts and put it all in one suit?

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Old 06-27-2006, 07:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Batman is "cooler" to most comic fans, in the dark badass way that is popular nowadays.

1. Bats is a loner. Yes he's in the Justice League fairly often, but he doesn't like it and doesn't stay. Tony devotes great deals of his money, and his home to the Avengers. He works with others often, and even built technology and suits for the government (though he's regretted it).

2. Batman is dedicated. To the point of being mentally disturbed. He goes out every night, all night. Tony's motivations have changed through the years, from revenge, to justice, to just protecting his own interests and companies, only large-scale threats.

3. Batman is more relatable to. He's not in a robot that gives him class 100 strength. He does things with his own body.

4. Batman fakes being a rich playboy, a kind of person many don't like. Tony actually is one.

It sounds like I'm critisizing Iron Man; I'm not, he's one of my favorite characters. But because of the things I said, most people are going to prefer Bats.

Also, Iron Man inhereited his money and company too. And Batman has traditional scientific training in addition to various other training during his travels. He wasn't just learning combat. Base your knowledge on something other than Begins. It wasn't exactly accurate on that point.

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Old 06-27-2006, 07:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Well put, Leto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk
I thought Iron-man was Marvels version of Batman marvel just elimanated all the crazy gadgets and utility belts and put it all in one suit?
Iron Man, Moon Knight, Punisher, and even Spider-Man all have some elements of Batman in them. Although it's Moon Knight who's generally considered "Marvel's Batman".

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Old 06-27-2006, 11:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto Atrides
Batman is "cooler" to most comic fans, in the dark badass way that is popular nowadays.

1. Bats is a loner. Yes he's in the Justice League fairly often, but he doesn't like it and doesn't stay. Tony devotes great deals of his money, and his home to the Avengers. He works with others often, and even built technology and suits for the government (though he's regretted it).
Real life teaches that cooperation, as opposed to lonewolf, can tackle bigger problems. Marvel creates a more believable universe where all characters have fallible personalities. While DC create a triumvirate of supergods whose one of the members is only a mere human.

Quote:
2. Batman is dedicated. To the point of being mentally disturbed. He goes out every night, all night. Tony's motivations have changed through the years, from revenge, to justice, to just protecting his own interests and companies, only large-scale threats.
Yes, Batman is dedicated in fighting criminals, even small criminals. Tony is fighting against bigger fish. While he's not as dedicated as Batman in fighting evil, realistically he should have more time in perfecting his inventions and managing his business. In DC Universe, Bruce can do everything in his 24 hours. Marvel's Iron Man has a more realistic pacing where the characters lives are not just about fighting villains day by day without exhaustion.

Quote:
3. Batman is more relatable to. He's not in a robot that gives him class 100 strength. He does things with his own body.
To fight against a class 100 strength opponent, Tony Stark has to use the exosuit. Unless you're fighting a town crook like the Penguins and Joker. It's not realistic for Batman to fight, say Superman, wearing his usual costume and expect to take Supe's fists squarely in the chin. Yet in the DC universe, this happens. In BatGod We Trust.

Quote:
4. Batman fakes being a rich playboy, a kind of person many don't like. Tony actually is one.
It's just how the writers portray Tony Stark to be. I don't drink and I don't like suggestions that the movie should show Stark to be an Alcoholic. If Stark is a 20 something, clean shaven young inventor I think the Iron Man series would take off more.

Personality-wise, Steve Rogers is more likeable than the dour, distrustful Bruce Wayne or womanizing, alcoholic Tony Stark. But does that make Captain America a better Superhero?

Quote:
It sounds like I'm critisizing Iron Man; I'm not, he's one of my favorite characters. But because of the things I said, most people are going to prefer Bats.
I prefer Bats too. He's more succesful as a superhero than Iron Man because the whole DC writers support him as the 2nd or if the premiere Superhero. Iron Man is written as a second class superhero. Even though he has the intelligence to invent powerboots and Unibeam, yet Cap America still can beat him. Now the Civil War potrays him as a major evil. Oh my...

Quote:
Also, Iron Man inhereited his money and company too. And Batman has traditional scientific training in addition to various other training during his travels. He wasn't just learning combat. Base your knowledge on something other than Begins. It wasn't exactly accurate on that point.
Stark made the business. Wayne inherited much of his wealth, and although allegedly he expanded the business, he didn't do by himself. Batman is still my #1 hero, but the way the writers portray him as human with superpowered luck and suprising chances tickles me on the wrong side.

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Old 06-28-2006, 01:08 AM   #11
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Didn't want to quote the whole thing, but I can understand what you mean about why many aspects of Iron Man make sense. They're only going to make him a premeir player by being really popular though, and heroes don't become really become popular by making sense though. An easy-going team player who's rich and happy is not going not going to capture the masses the way a twisted soul searching for vengence will.

I'm just saying, Iron Man is less iconic, in the sense he is not extreme in views and attitude. He coexists well with other people and heroes, and can be easily used in a support role ("Hey, we just got a shipment of tech from Tony Stark!", etc.) so Marvel's not going to go to the trouble of making him a top-flight solo character.

And as an aside, I could've sworn his normal suit was just barely Class 100. Like his limit is 100 tons.

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Old 06-28-2006, 09:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

...can anyone really ever compare to The Batman...

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Old 06-28-2006, 10:30 AM   #13
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

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Originally Posted by warren_sparta27
...can anyone really ever compare to The Batman...
We all know Batman is a god!! with enough prep time he could become ruler of Earth 1 and 2 !

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Old 06-28-2006, 05:02 PM   #14
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefchirpa
Real life teaches that cooperation, as opposed to lonewolf, can tackle bigger problems. Marvel creates a more believable universe where all characters have fallible personalities. While DC create a triumvirate of supergods whose one of the members is only a mere human.

snip
Do we really need all this much of a debate on quality? We're talking about popularity, and unforunately, popularity and quality don't always go hand in hand.

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Old 06-28-2006, 09:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

I always liked Iron Man because he seemed to be a great synthesis of 2 of the most popular superheros, even if they are DC heros. He's like the best of Batman and Superman rolled into one. Almost as if they had had a love child.

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Old 06-29-2006, 08:02 AM   #16
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Its all about popularity.Batman is alot more popular than Ironman. But I do accept that Ironman is more realistic compared to Batman. And the Ironman armor is several lightyears cooler than the Bat suit and all the Batman gadgets combined.

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Old 08-31-2006, 02:41 AM   #17
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefchirpa
"Doctorate level knowledge" is what the writers do to make a BatGod. Tony Stark is dedicated to his mechanical/electrical engineering invention by creating high-tech exosuits with his own hands. In the Batman lore or at least in Batman Begins, there's never a sure thing that Bruce Wayne creates Batman vehicles and gadgets. I'm sorry, but Iron Man is a tad more realistic than Batman.

Your post is fairly vague, and your grammar is awful, but do I read it correctly in that you say Bats did NOT create anything he used in BB? If that is what you are saying, you are incorrect. Wayne was shown assembling/modifying the suit, making the "batarangs", etc.

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Old 08-31-2006, 06:33 AM   #18
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefchirpa
Tony Starks obviously has more than Bruce Wayne. Corporation that felt more real than Wayne Enterprise and without the need of Lucius Fox and dead father's will. A real Science Engineering education as opposed to wasting the entire youth life traveling to exotic places just to beat people. An ever-improving exosuit that can beat all BatCopter, BatWing, BatMobile, BatTank, and so on combined.

So what's keeping him to become one of the elites in Marvel Universe?
at the moment the fact that writers are turning him into dr.doom jr.

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Old 09-29-2006, 06:38 AM   #19
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefchirpa

So what's keeping him to become one of the elites in Marvel Universe?

essentially, he doesn't have a black mantle

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Old 10-02-2006, 10:08 AM   #20
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironfan72
Unlike DC where they have "the big three", Batman,Wonder Women and Superman, Marvel doesn't limit itself to three major characters, Marvel has many more interesting and realistic heros and villians.
Actually when I look at DC and Marvel I would say DC has more realistic heroes. Also, it seems pretty common to see DC characters without powers and yet still playing hero and doing great. Same goes for DC's villains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk
I thought Iron-man was Marvels version of Batman marvel just elimanated all the crazy gadgets and utility belts and put it all in one suit?
If anything I always thought Daredevil was the closest thing to DC's Batman. But this is with other factors besides gadgets of course. I have never ever considered Iron Man to be similar at all to Batman except that they are both rich.

Oh and why is Iron Man not big like DC's Batman? Plain and simple. Ironman does not equal Spider-Man. I say this only because like DC's Batman, Marvel's Spider-Man was greatly advertised. All those old cartoon shows, newer cartoon shows, successful action figures, movies, games, etc. I'm not saying Iron Man is not a cool character...he just simply isn't popular because he hasn't really been advertised to all ages really; not as much as Marvel has done with Spider-Man.

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Old 10-02-2006, 10:11 AM   #21
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Edit.

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Aquaman can only be whole when he loses that hand again and reclaims the super-awesome water hand. It's one of comics' great paradoxes.
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Old 12-21-2006, 03:28 AM   #22
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Let's face it people.....it's the ****ing mustache. People don't trust dudes with mustaches.

I think trying to toss realism into this mix, about one dude who dresses like Bat.....and another dude who dresses like a robot.......I think realism should probably go out the window here. I think we can try to talk realism.....I mean, it'd be kinda pointless anyways......when Iron Man's film gets done.

But, CConn made a lot of great points. Batman's main deal is his ability to solve crimes, wheter scientifically, deduction or through reasoning and detecting. His ability to build and invent is pretty much secondary, or maybe even lower down the chain when you consider his physical combat skills.

Tony's a real brain. I mean....really....really there and all. The comparisons between him and Batman are kinda superficial I think. They're both rich, they're both mortal.......and that's about it. Other than that, they're very different I think. Even in lifestyles, down to motivations....they're just different.

Moon Knight is Marvel's Batman, the way I see it. Well.....Batman on steriods and some form of weaponized hallusangen. That dude is ****ing nuts.


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Old 12-21-2006, 11:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Iron Man and Batman has a connection that they're both rich and command a domineering company in respective universe. Stark Enterprise finance the Avengers, and Wayne Industries gets JLA's bills. They're both gadgets-heavy and the toys made them equal to superpeople.

Finally, they're both mere mortals with big brains. Moon Knight is no longer mortal with Khonshu holding him. The same with Daredevil, Wolverine, and to a lesser extent, Black Panther who takes natural drugs.

And I won't mention about the womanizer part....

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Old 12-22-2006, 02:42 AM   #24
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

Actually, I dunno if Wayne Enterprises does fund the JLA. They've actually got a few members that are pretty rich, but I'm not so sure that he funds them anymore.

I think the connection to Moon Knight has more to do in how they carry themselves. Cape and all, as well as questionable methods of dishing out justice.....plus they're both dark and creepy.

I think Leto said it right.....Bruce acts like a rich playboy. Tony is the real deal.

But, as to why Iron Man isn't the "Batman" of Marvel......well, b/c the role of dark avenger is filled by a few others. People pay more attention to the dark and brooding side, b/c it's what they see first. Plus, I do think Iron Man will see his stock rise when his film opens. I'm sure people will fall for him then, and then...who knows, maybe we'll see him become a household name. But, Marvel's got a lot of popular names.....that's one of the reasons he's been held back I think.

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Old 12-22-2006, 02:46 AM   #25
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Default Re: What's keeping Iron Man to become Marvel's Batman?

I gotta say, I'm starting to appreciate Iron Man more now than I ever did.

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