They turned the X-MEN into a CIRCUS !!!!!!!

[Flashman]

Okay, just to begin from somewhere:

1- JEAN GREY died 56 times. The school was destroyed 56 times. The villains come and go, and they never die for good. RECYCLED PLOTS, RECYCLED GIMMICKS, no more sense of reality.

2- PHOENIX saga SCREWED UP - It turned into a mess, with all those bad poorly-written retcons. Madelyne Prior didn't help, but at least it was Claremont's golden time as great writer.

3- TOO MANY USELESS SAGAS. House of M, House of G, House of WHO, Age of Apocalypse, Age of the Monkey, Age of the ***** and so on...

4- GAMBIT OVERRATED. Nothing special about the guy.

5- TOO MANY "children" of Scott & Jean coming from the future.

6- Line-ups often confused.

7- Too many RETCONS. Gambit led the Marauders to the Morlocks? FORCED! FAR-FETCHED!

8- Wolverine's BONE CLAWS: greatest BAD RETCON of all the times.

9- Storm's character messed up in the recent times.

'X-MEN' died in 1991 or so. I'm sorry to say that.

[Hades]

Indeed. they've become a little convulted.

[toya thegr8]

Originally Posted by Flashman

Okay, just to begin from somewhere:

1- JEAN GREY died 56 times. The school was destroyed 56 times. The villains come and go, and they never die for good. RECYCLED PLOTS, RECYCLED GIMMICKS, no more sense of reality.

2- PHOENIX saga SCREWED UP - It turned into a mess, with all those bad poorly-written retcons. Madelyne Prior didn't help, but at least it was Claremont's golden time as great writer.

3- TOO MANY USELESS SAGAS. House of M, House of G, House of WHO, Age of Apocalypse, Age of the Monkey, Age of the ***** and so on...

4- GAMBIT OVERRATED. Nothing special about the guy.

5- TOO MANY "children" of Scott & Jean coming from the future.

6- Line-ups often confused.

7- Too many RETCONS. Gambit led the Marauders to the Morlocks? FORCED! FAR-FETCHED!

8- Wolverine's BONE CLAWS: greatest BAD RETCON of all the times.

9- Storm's character messed up in the recent times.

'X-MEN' died in 1991 or so. I'm sorry to say that.

Vent man! Vent!

[Flashman]

X-FORCE, X-CONFUSION, X-FACTOR, X-TREME, X-GROUP, X-CORP, GENERATION X, X-CALIBUR, X-CRAP...

'X-MEN' should have been the ONE and ONLY NAME! Drop all these useless "collateral" gangs... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chasers1984(2)]

Have you even read a comic lately?

"1- JEAN GREY died 56 times. The school was destroyed 56 times. The villains come and go, and they never die for good. RECYCLED PLOTS, RECYCLED GIMMICKS, no more sense of reality."

Jean Grey died 4 times (which I may say is less than most comic characters). The mansion was destroyed all of 5 times. And for the past 10 years they've actually gotten away from the whole "I am Magneto and I'm trying to kill you every month" crap. As for the recycled plots and "gimmicks." Write ANYTHING in the same genre for 30+ years without every reusing an idea. Yea... not happening. And they're comic books. If you want reality go read a biography. Plus, the X-men have been more grounded in the past 5 years than every before.


"2- PHOENIX saga SCREWED UP - It turned into a mess, with all those bad poorly-written retcons. Madelyne Prior didn't help, but at least it was Claremont's golden time as great writer."

The Phoenix Saga is no longer broken. Please reference Endsong if you don't know what I mean.


"3- TOO MANY USELESS SAGAS. House of M, House of G, House of WHO, Age of Apocalypse, Age of the Monkey, Age of the ***** and so on..."

The Age of Apoc (old school version) was one of the greatest stories ever told. Hence why they just did an anniversary special. House of M had great potential but they didn't run with it enough. Other than those two and the Phoenix Saga there haven't been all that many earth shattering crossovers.


" 4- GAMBIT OVERRATED. Nothing special about the guy."

Two words. Wolverine. Emma.


"5- TOO MANY "children" of Scott & Jean coming from the future."

Ummm... now it just seems like you want to complain about something.


"6- Line-ups often confused."

Really not getting this part seeing as how the lineups stay fairly regular for 3+ years at a time. Again I ask if you've picked up a comic lately.


"7- Too many RETCONS. Gambit led the Marauders to the Morlocks? FORCED! FAR-FETCHED!"

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it was a retcon. Please learn the meaning.


"8- Wolverine's BONE CLAWS: greatest BAD RETCON of all the times."

Again. Now you are digging.


"9- Storm's character messed up in the recent times."

Storm's character has been written exactly the same from the dawn of time. She walks or flies on page, gives a speech describing exactly what she is doing, gives a self-proclamation of her status as Goddess of the Known Universe, does whatever it is she said she was doing thirty pages ago, gives some non-witty quip, everyone hugs, then she leaves. AGAIN, I ask if you've read a comic lately.

[toya thegr8]

Originally Posted by Chasers1984(2)

"9- Storm's character messed up in the recent times."

Storm's character has been written exactly the same from the dawn of time. She walks or flies on page, gives a speech describing exactly what she is doing, gives a self-proclamation of her status as Goddess of the Known Universe, does whatever it is she said she was doing thirty pages ago, gives some non-witty quip, everyone hugs, then she leaves. AGAIN, I ask if you've read a comic lately.

I think he might be referring to recently recently. Meh, I don't agree with all or most of what s/he is saying but in anycase...

Originally Posted by Flashman

X-FORCE, X-CONFUSION, X-FACTOR, X-TREME, X-GROUP, X-CORP, GENERATION X, X-CALIBUR, X-CRAP...

'X-MEN' should have been the ONE and ONLY NAME! Drop all these useless "collateral" gangs... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...Venting is good for the comic soul!!!

[Flashman]

Opinions, guys, opinions.

These are mine.


Anyway, Chasers, IT WAS A RETCON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gambit was supposed to be a thief at the time, unaware of all the "mutants affairs". They retconned him, giving him a role in the massacre, and that wasted the mystery surrounding the character's past. And it was FAR-FETCHED anyway.

Then... WOLVERINE. Mutant powers: regenerative factor, hyper-senses. Stop. Everything else is a FAR-FETCHED RETCON to make him more "colourful". Bad!

Originally Posted by Flashman

Then... WOLVERINE. Mutant powers: regenerative factor, hyper-senses. Stop. Everything else is a FAR-FETCHED RETCON to make him more "colourful". Bad!

Wolverine has been like that since the very beginning. It's a comic, not real life so the characters are "colourful". Is he getting a little too much attention? Yes. Is it really THAT bad? I personally don't think so.

[Chasers1984(2)]

Originally Posted by toya thegr8

I think he might be referring to recently recently. Meh, I don't agree with all or most of what s/he is saying but in anycase...

OOOOOHHHH the wedding. That will last for 6 months tops. In either case, though, it is giving Storm her official "Queen" status. And I think that is all they are trying to accomplish with this.

Originally Posted by toya thegr8

...Venting is good for the comic soul!!!

There's venting and then there's whining. One is good the other is totally unproductive.

[Chasers1984(2)]

Originally Posted by Flashman

Opinions, guys, opinions.

These are mine.

There's a difference between opinions and blindly b****ing about something. Half of the things you said are fact based rather than opinion based. And some of the things you said are also unavoidable givens of the comic franchise.

Perfect example being....

"no more sense of reality"

As if there was to begin with? You're talking about people with wings, blue fur, and the ability to move things solely with their mind. Aliens were used more back in the day than they are right now. It's called suspention of belief. In order to actually enjoy any kind of sci-fi, fantasy, FICTION, piece of work you need to be able to do that. Otherwise it's like force-feeding yourself something you hate just so you can complain about it later.

[toya thegr8]

Originally Posted by Chasers1984(2)

There's a difference between opinions and blindly b****ing about something. Half of the things you said are fact based rather than opinion based. And some of the things you said are also unavoidable givens of the comic franchise.

Just 'cause I can.



Seriously though, they are how s/he feels about them, let him/her vent. Or not..?

[Flashman]

"As if there was to begin with? You're talking about people with wings, blue fur, and the ability to move things solely with their mind. Aliens were used more back in the day than they are right now. It's called suspention of belief. In order to actually enjoy any kind of sci-fi, fantasy, FICTION, piece of work you need to be able to do that. Otherwise it's like force-feeding yourself something you hate just so you can complain about it later."

Listen, man. I'm a sci-fi writer. I know this better than anyone else.

I CAN believe that Jead died ONE TIME and THEN RESURRECTED. Okay, that she was replaced by an alien entity. It's super-okay, it's the "reality" of that universe. But by having her doing that 4times you writer goes against the 'CRITERIA of FICTIONAL REALITY' (so to speak) set for the universe The X-Men inhabit.

When you create a world, you have to set some rules, it doesn't matter how "fantastic" they are --- otherwise, viewers/readers can't reflect into the world you created. Elementary story-telling.

Sadly, 'X-MEN' has crossed the line too much.

And ENOUGH with all the X-GANGS...

Originally Posted by Flashman

I CAN believe that Jead died ONE TIME and THEN RESURRECTED. Okay, that she was replaced by an alien entity. It's super-okay, it's the "reality" of that universe. But by having her doing that 4times you writer goes against the 'CRITERIA of FICTIONAL REALITY' (so to speak) set for the universe The X-Men inhabit.

Jean's Phoenix. Phoenixes are resurrected several times from their ashes - it comes with the power. It's the rule.

[Cosmic Mind]

Is true, there is some mess arround the place. I just hoping they could stick with a solid, good, and long story line, just like dark phoenix, days of the future past......make it a 30 issue story, not a 6 issue...

[Flashman]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Mind

Is true, there is some mess arround the place. I just hoping they could stick with a solid, good, and long story line, just like dark phoenix, days of the future past......make it a 30 issue story, not a 6 issue...

Damn right.

[Cosmic Mind]

Shall we start saying that they should get more serius???

[Flashman]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Mind

Shall we start saying that they should get more serius???

LESS IMAGE COMICS, MORE OLD SCHOOL MARVEL and more character development, and more Claremont-like writing.
To begin with.

[toya thegr8]

Perhaps the "Idea Well" is running on empty? And maybe, Civil War can spark something interesting.

[S7ilver]

Originally Posted by Chasers1984(2)

Have you even read a comic lately?

"1- JEAN GREY died 56 times. The school was destroyed 56 times. The villains come and go, and they never die for good. RECYCLED PLOTS, RECYCLED GIMMICKS, no more sense of reality."

Jean Grey died 4 times (which I may say is less than most comic characters). The mansion was destroyed all of 5 times. And for the past 10 years they've actually gotten away from the whole "I am Magneto and I'm trying to kill you every month" crap. As for the recycled plots and "gimmicks." Write ANYTHING in the same genre for 30+ years without every reusing an idea. Yea... not happening. And they're comic books. If you want reality go read a biography. Plus, the X-men have been more grounded in the past 5 years than every before.


"2- PHOENIX saga SCREWED UP - It turned into a mess, with all those bad poorly-written retcons. Madelyne Prior didn't help, but at least it was Claremont's golden time as great writer."

The Phoenix Saga is no longer broken. Please reference Endsong if you don't know what I mean.


"3- TOO MANY USELESS SAGAS. House of M, House of G, House of WHO, Age of Apocalypse, Age of the Monkey, Age of the ***** and so on..."

The Age of Apoc (old school version) was one of the greatest stories ever told. Hence why they just did an anniversary special. House of M had great potential but they didn't run with it enough. Other than those two and the Phoenix Saga there haven't been all that many earth shattering crossovers.


" 4- GAMBIT OVERRATED. Nothing special about the guy."

Two words. Wolverine. Emma.


"5- TOO MANY "children" of Scott & Jean coming from the future."

Ummm... now it just seems like you want to complain about something.


"6- Line-ups often confused."

Really not getting this part seeing as how the lineups stay fairly regular for 3+ years at a time. Again I ask if you've picked up a comic lately.


"7- Too many RETCONS. Gambit led the Marauders to the Morlocks? FORCED! FAR-FETCHED!"

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it was a retcon. Please learn the meaning.


"8- Wolverine's BONE CLAWS: greatest BAD RETCON of all the times."

Again. Now you are digging.


"9- Storm's character messed up in the recent times."

Storm's character has been written exactly the same from the dawn of time. She walks or flies on page, gives a speech describing exactly what she is doing, gives a self-proclamation of her status as Goddess of the Known Universe, does whatever it is she said she was doing thirty pages ago, gives some non-witty quip, everyone hugs, then she leaves. AGAIN, I ask if you've read a comic lately.

Since you've apparently read Endsong I'm guessing that you missed the entire page where Jean died like 5 times in a row..Your Storm description can be used for every X-Man BTW

[Cosmic Mind]

thats right...... how about a balance between action and drama???? I feel that there is a disbalance......too much action???

[Flashman]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Mind

thats right...... how about a balance between action and drama???? I feel that there is a disbalance......too much action???

TRADING CARDS over the STORY.

Claremont, where are you?

[Mistopurr83]

Personally I think X-Men comics have totally gone downhill this decade. I loved the 80's and 90's comics but, I HATE the 2000's comics. During the last 7 years the 616 universe has been doing all these things that the x-men characters wouldn't have done in reality. The most recent comics have done things that look out of continuity from issues that were written by different writers 5 years ago. I agree that the brand new team line-ups absolutely SUCK! The X-Men wouldn't have allowed Mystique, Juggernaut and Sabretooth to join them if only Claremont was still writing them. So many things have been effed thanx to ****in' Miligan. I think I've made myself clear so I'm not gonna say anymore.

[Flashman]

Juggernaut... oh God.

Please. Who's the next X-Man? Sinister?

HORRID.

[Kevin]

^ this is opinion right?

[Kevin]

^ this is opinion right, Purr?