Do you think the Ultimate Universe will still be around 40-50 years from now?

[hippy fascist]

it would suck everyone's history is interconnected so you can't just pick and choose you're favourites from each universe...it'd be a continuity nightmare!!!

I wouldn't mind them switching the wolverine's though since the ultimate one still requires more than 10secs to heal after being completely vapourised

Forgive me if this already on a thread, but isn't the current UFF Zombie fest interconnected with an alternate universe not to unlike 616 as the heroes used were more 616ish than ultimateish?

I think they will merge even though Quesada has said point blank that they would not.

It will start with alternate universes going to both 616 and Ultimate, (btw what numbers are the Ultimate universe and the Supremeverse?) and then a gradual cross over. First of these? Probably Exiles).

[Dread]

Originally Posted by TheSumOfGod

Do you think it has any staying power, that it will last as long as 616 already has, that one day our grandchildren will be picking up Ultimates 37 issue 1?

Personally, I think that a few years from now, when the Ultimate Universe will have become boring, when every 616 story will have been re-done and re-re-done, and sales will be dropping, they'll simply MERGE 616 and Ultimate continuities together in a "Crisis"-type event, and re-start Marvel all over again.

What do you think?

To be realistic and frank, Marvel rarely has a decent idea of what they want to do and where they see their company and characters headed in TWO years. 40-50 years is way beyond the tenure of anyone who was involved in creating Ultimate.

With that said, originally, Ultimate was supposed to offer a sort of "new" Marvel Universe for "new" fans, as well as give older ones a rejuvenated shot at the classic formulas, only revisioned to work better in the 21st century, and since it had no baring on the original, classic 616, it was like havin' cake and eating it too, yes? But then a few years passed and things that were a "hit" in Ultimate started leaking into Marvel. The best examples are:

1). Spider-Man's ability to keep his mask or his identity secret going from "mildly competant" to "careless teenage girl" level

2). SHIELD in 616 being mistaken and handled like another "extention" of the U.S. like it is in Ultimate, which it isn't, and Nick Fury being a completely unreasonable, almost Fascist figure, which he isn't.

Plus, after a few years Marvel tried "expanding" the line into other extentions, like they do with all franchises (SPIDER-MAN, X-MEN), and as predictable, the stuff that has merit flys, and everything else falls. After USM and UXM, you had UMTU, which flopped after a while. Then you had ULTIMATE ADVENTURES published out of an inside company dare than a need to tell a story (although I actually enjoyed it to some extent), which is a retarded reason to publish ANYTHING. And then two stabs at ULTIMATE ELEKTRA & DAREDEVIL, which obviously didn't take because it'd have become an ongoing if it had. And then you have the random "Ultimate event" mini that has some story that intermingles 1-2 books at once for some grand plot, and these stories almost always aren't worth all the hype. The only two "extention" titles were ULTIMATES (and its sequal), which became a book so riddled by lateness that you almost forget it, since only about 3-4 issues are published a year, and ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR, which thankfully was a worthwhile extention of the line because it added one of Marvel's original franchises to the universe.

More time passes, and Marvel realizes that they need to "rejuvenate" some characters for a new audience, and feel like retconning their entire history and start from scratch, with a more "modern" approach to their mythos. The logical place for that would be an Ultimate version, but since when did logic factor into Marvel editorial meetings? So you have relaunches like BLACK PANTHER (least the first arc or so) or STRANGE that bulldoze past the 616 stuff but aren't Ultimate, and so really have no use or value. The fact is that Marvel's editorially lost interest in Ultimate to some degree, especially since Ultimate "events" always suck and underperform, getting big name "Hollywood" talent like Brian Singer has been impossible, and naturally without "events", they only sell on "successful formula", a concept Marvel feels has no place in a modern market. So really the only reason Ultimate books have lasted this long is because they all still sell within the Top 20-30 every month (at least the ongoings do). Heck, they sometimes used to outsell their 616 counterpart titles by tens of thousands of issues before Marvel changed gears back to "event full of death and destruction a year, no downtime, repeat" from about 2004, which always lead to a short term surge in sales, but need extended "events" year after year to maintain. And here we are.

40-50 years is too long to predict. But in a way, the Ultimate formula is a formula that is rather "old school" but has done well in a modern day. Have a strong central idea and themes for characters, have a very small line of comics that are essential (nature takes care of the unfit titles), and rather than throw all your eggs into one basket with events, spread them out with high quality single titles. Marvel doesn't seem to want to do that with 616 comics anymore.

[Sun_Down]

My guess is that they'll eventually have so many cross-overs that even thought the two universes are separate, no one will be able to tell.

[DBM]

Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1

Merging would be the end of my already tenuous readership of Marvel's comics.

Ditto.

[Shockdingo]

I used to think it would last a long time, but recently I've just been feeling that it's not having the appeal to me that it had when it first came out. I now only really care about Ult X-men.

[Mike059jig]

They have their fanbase...and I guess marvel doesn't want to take it away from them...it depends on sales....Ultimate Marvel fanbase are very loyal the Ultimate Universe..I for one have only ready keep getting only two title after droppin all of them in the first arcs and..Those being the Ultimates and Ultimate Wolv vs hulk..but now its down to one with Ult Wolv vs Hulk being off the market so long

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Badfish40oz

I can't believe nobody is voting for the "merging." That is clearly what will happen. It will still mostly be the mainstream Marvel universe (616), but any great ideas that catch on in the Ultimate Verse will be put into main continuity.

Im sorry you cant believe there arent more people who would agree with such a horrendously stupid idea. It should always be the other way around, I dont care what anyone says or thinks.

[3dman27]

i don't think the ultimate u will last too many years longer

[Arkady Rossovich]

Im willing to say that the Ultimates line will end,im also willing to bet money on it.The Ultimate Universe was never ment to be permanent,it was just a method to help Marvel escape bankrupcy.As for when,im not sure..

[yenaled]

Originally Posted by DBM

Ditto.

Ditto.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by yenaled

Ditto.

Xeroxed.

[gildea]

Whilst I'd rather they were allowed to finish with issue 150 (or 50 in ultimates case) i don't see it happening.

Merging wouldn't bother me too much mind you.

[Darthphere]

Thus, eliminating its main purpose and many a fan. I can see someone saying that dropping all marvel books because of Spidey revealing his identity might be seen as overreacting. But merging two different universes into one deserves only one response, and thats to drop Marvel for good. I doubt it will ever happen but if it does count me in with the others who will give up on marvel.

[gildea]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Thus, eliminating its main purpose and many a fan. I can see someone saying that dropping all marvel books because of Spidey revealing his identity might be seen as overreacting. But merging two different universes into one deserves only one response, and thats to drop Marvel for good. I doubt it will ever happen but if it does count me in with the others who will give up on marvel.

Eliminating its original purpose I agree. But I think it may be possible to tell better stories in the ultimate framework than 616. I just don't subscribe to one version of a character being more real than another is all, a good story featuring spiderman is more important to me than an average story featuring a particular version of spiderman.

I accept I am probably a minority of one in this

As I said though I'd prefer just to end it.

[Darthphere]

Well, when you take a character like Spider-Man, both versions are completely different, there really is no way to merge that character succesfully.

[gildea]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

Well, when you take a character like Spider-Man, both versions are completely different, there really is no way to merge that character succesfully.

Yeah it said merge, but to be honest i'm more thinking in the context of replace.

[Darthphere]

It still stands. Some have grown to love the 25 year old teaching Peter parker with a hot ass wife Mary Jane. Others prefer the yong 15 year old slightly emo Peter Parker. There would be outrage of some sort either way. Unless you make him a 20 year old intern with a hot girlfriend thats slightly emo.

[gildea]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

It still stands. Some have grown to love the 25 year old teaching Peter parker with a hot ass wife Mary Jane. Others prefer the yong 15 year old slightly emo Peter Parker. There would be outrage of some sort either way. Unless you make him a 20 year old intern with a hot girlfriend thats slightly emo.

Spidey's always been slightly emo (heck i'd argue some of the stories under stans pen were worse than anything in ult). But yeah there is no way to make everyone happy doing this and it would piss off too many people for marvel to actually do it.

[hippy fascist]

I think the problem is they had to much freedom, again I return to the point of the goblin. They make him all Hulk-esque and lame because they want to explore something new, but the jekyl hyde thing has already been done to death. The concept of a MAN who has gone completely over the edge allows for a wider variety of far more complex stories to be told. GRRR I'm a big scary green demon -looking thing only lasts for so long.

Continuity is a good thing, by placing a strict set of rules around characters writers are forced to dig deep into character motiviation. They have to really think about who the characters are and how past events have shaped them and continue to do so. Examples where they have ignored this and just done whatever they wanted are inevitably crap...cough...the other...cough. The early ultimate stuff is great new starts etc but these days it just feels like there's no cohesion. Personally I like stoires to have some planning behind them rather than just have the writers come in each day and go "well what do you fancy doing today".

As a final point look at issue 97 of USM, they are finally starting to work with the concept of a framework, with self referencing, and it was great. Hobgoblin on the other hand...well let's just say harry was there and hope no-one notices we're making this up as we go along...suckage!

If ultimate is ever gonna work they need to get a cohesive vision for the titles, then they might stand a chance

[gildea]

dunno aside from the stuff umtu created I'd say ultimate is significantly more cohesive than 616.

Oddly enough I just reread all of ult spidey the other day and was surprised by how much I enjoyed the hobgoblin arc, it references some stuff from earlier arcs pretty heavily.

[TheCorpulent1]

Originally Posted by gildea

Eliminating its original purpose I agree. But I think it may be possible to tell better stories in the ultimate framework than 616. I just don't subscribe to one version of a character being more real than another is all, a good story featuring spiderman is more important to me than an average story featuring a particular version of spiderman.

I accept I am probably a minority of one in this

As I said though I'd prefer just to end it.

Spider-Man is one story. The Ultimate and 616 versions honestly aren't all that different. But if there's a merging of, say, Ultimate Thor and 616 Thor? I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that 616 Thor is the one who'll end up shafted and marginalized down to practically no representation within the amalgamation. Why? Ultimate Thor is pretty much universally popular while 616 Thor's fans are few and far between. Same with Captain America. Never mind that Ultimate Cap and 616 Cap represent wholly different concepts--the more popular character is bound to become dominant in the resultant character from any merging. I'm not one to throw around the "If X happens, I'm done with Marvel" threat, but I can honestly say that if Marvel loses the 616 characters in favor of merged characters with heavy Ultimate influences, I would not be able to enjoy their comics any longer.

[Harlekin]

Like hell I'll still be reading Marvel if they merge 616 with UU.

[3dman27]

Originally Posted by hippy fascist

I think the problem is they had to much freedom, again I return to the point of the goblin. They make him all Hulk-esque and lame because they want to explore something new, but the jekyl hyde thing has already been done to death. The concept of a MAN who has gone completely over the edge allows for a wider variety of far more complex stories to be told. GRRR I'm a big scary green demon -looking thing only lasts for so long.

Continuity is a good thing, by placing a strict set of rules around characters writers are forced to dig deep into character motiviation. They have to really think about who the characters are and how past events have shaped them and continue to do so. Examples where they have ignored this and just done whatever they wanted are inevitably crap...cough...the other...cough. The early ultimate stuff is great new starts etc but these days it just feels like there's no cohesion. Personally I like stoires to have some planning behind them rather than just have the writers come in each day and go "well what do you fancy doing toinrermeber reading
back whe a refference ti marvels continuity day".

As a final point look at issue 97 of USM, they are finally starting to work with the concept of a framework, with self referencing, and it was great. Hobgoblin on the other hand...well let's just say harry was there and hope no-one notices we're making this up as we go along...suckage!

If ultimate is ever gonna work they need to get a cohesive vision for the titles, then they might stand a chance

i agree with the comments about continuity whe one writer once said continuity made no sense because quote"i come from earth" he should have been told "
you WILL abide by marvels continuity polocy or find your emplyment ELSEWHERE"

[ang_hulk]

I dont think will be around in another 50 years but i know we wont be getting comics of the shelf so i think they will disapear entirly,the ultimate u will be an early sacrafice.