Odd parts about Civil War...

[Willowhugger]

These are a few things that do bug me about the crossover. Some are easily explainable away, others are a bit more difficult.

1. On what planet in what universe does BARON ZEMO get a government job? He's a gawd damned Nazi! If you ranked the most evil people in Marvel comics you would come up with a list that goes Apocalypse, the Red Skull, and Baron Zemo. Honestly, I half expect to see Apocalypse and the Horsemen show up with government authorization and it can't get any more crazy.

2. Deadpool is a similiar case. The man is outright crazy. Not in the sense of megalomania or disregard for people's lives (that is enough government employees). It's in the sense that he talks to himself, is delusional, and couldn't pass the psychological qualifications to be a mailman. THIS is a man hired by the government to bring in superheroes?

3. Are the American people REALLY so stupid as to utterly ignore Nitro's part in the Stamford affair? Does no one think that he should have his head called for? It's not like Speedball's Speed Force went out of whack (which is the way people are treating it). Nitro is the guy who detonated the bomb. Why isn't everyone going after him?

4. Again....BARON ZEMO. Reed Richards and Hank Pym seem happily chilling with the guy. It's like Professor Xavier sitting down with....well I'm not going to say Magneto...perhaps Cassandra Nova is a better take.

5. The WEIRD arguments people use. Emma Frost tells Tony Stark she won't help because the government didn't lift a finger to help Genosha when....there's not much he could do when the entire country was VAPORIZED. The slavery comparisons by Luke Cage. Reed Richards happily talking about McCarthyism, It's BIZARRE.

6. Have I mentioned Baron Zemo? What is it with Neo-Nazis and the government anyway? Red Skull is Secretary of State, Cobra Commander is Chief of Staff, and now Zemo is a registered marshall.

7. Spiderman making perfectly rational arguments in Amazing Spiderman for Registration'Revealing Public Identities in his own title while in others he might as well address Tony as his Furher. It seems to be inconsistent characterization.

8. The fact Speedball is guilty as sin for Manslaughter yet he's being portrayed as this huge victim whose apparently unaware he really IS guilty. I'm not sure I get what Marvel's going for.

9. They release the Green Goblin and every supervillain ever in the Marvel universe to be in the New Thunderbolts. Doctor Octopus, a man again, CLINICALLY INSANE and has tried to BLOW UP the world (Sinister Sex) in the government posse.

Whose next? Hydra for SHIELD recruitment.

10. Has Captain America lost his mind too. He sucker punches IRON MAN and expects to walk away from it easily. He recruits the Young Avengers into a battle that they can't win and will take them away from their families. He also insults Spidey to his face before comes crawling in Amazing Spiderman. It's weird.

[Harlekin]

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

9. They release the Green Goblin and every supervillain ever in the Marvel universe to be in the New Thunderbolts. Doctor Octopus, a man again, CLINICALLY INSANE and has tried to BLOW UP the world (Sinister Sex) in the government posse.

Freudian slip?

[The Geek Vault]

Baron Zemo is still a Nazi? I thought he denounced it. So did Red Skull. I'm with you on the whole nitro arguement though but I could swear I heard I think wolverine is going after him and someone else... Some of the arguements are a bit confusing. I want to know more about Thor coming back though cause why would he just come back and join Iron man's side.

[La The Darkman]

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

The slavery comparisons by Luke Cage

Ok, I have to comment on this because it seems to me that most people are misinterpeting this exchange......Luke Cage was NOT saying that Civil war or the SHRA was like slavery. Iron Man made a statment along of the lines of "it's the law" Cage then said "Slavery was a law too" or something to that extent, what he meant by that was just because something is a LAW doesn't mean it's right. I don't know why most people aren't getting that exchange.

[Apprentice]

Originally Posted by Harlekin

Freudian slip?

My thought exactly.

[danielisthor]

Originally Posted by La The Darkman

Ok, I have to comment on this because it seems to me that most people are misinterpeting this exchange......Luke Cage was NOT saying that Civil war or the SHRA was like slavery. Iron Man made a statment along of the lines of "it's the law" Cage then said "Slavery was a law too" or something to that extent, what he meant by that was just because something is a LAW doesn't mean it's right. I don't know why most people aren't getting that exchange.

Because most people aren't intelligent enough to comprehend it.

[danielisthor]

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

These are a few things that do bug me about the crossover. Some are easily explainable away, others are a bit more difficult.

3. Are the American people REALLY so stupid as to utterly ignore Nitro's part in the Stamford affair? Does no one think that he should have his head called for? It's not like Speedball's Speed Force went out of whack (which is the way people are treating it). Nitro is the guy who detonated the bomb. Why isn't everyone going after him?

Um, yes we are. We are a society of knee jerking, blame somebody else, who's winning American Idol idiots.

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

8. The fact Speedball is guilty as sin for Manslaughter yet he's being portrayed as this huge victim whose apparently unaware he really IS guilty. I'm not sure I get what Marvel's going for.

Your mischaracterizing Speedball. He has owned up to his involvement in the disaster and he knows that he is being railroaded by the feds for it as well. He also realized that the feds were trying to use that to force/blackmail him into registering. He stood his ground on his principals, unlike Marvel's flagship character.

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

10. Has Captain America lost his mind too. He sucker punches IRON MAN and expects to walk away from it easily. He recruits the Young Avengers into a battle that they can't win and will take them away from their families. He also insults Spidey to his face before comes crawling in Amazing Spiderman. It's weird.

Captain America being the strategist that he is, knew from the onset that they were going to end up fighting. As soon as the trap we sprung, Iron Man's team took out the teleporters. Captain America knew his team wasn't walking out of there, whether they signed or not. He didn't recruit the YA, he saved them from incarceration when they got busted from superhero-ing. The YA were already on Cap's side, even if they weren't openly recruited. Just by refusing to sign, Iron Man and Shield will be looking for you, and you will sign or your going down. That was the point Iron Man gave to Cage as well.
WHat i bold typed made no sense. Cap brought up the legit point that now that he's gone public, every known super-villian, thug, and thief, that Peter has stopped, knows exactly where he lives. Whats to stop Sandman from taking revenge on Mary Jane and Aunt May every time Spiderman's out saving the world with the Avengers.

[La The Darkman]

Originally Posted by danielisthor

He didn't recruit the YA, he saved them from incarceration when they got busted from superhero-ing. The YA were already on Cap's side, even if they weren't openly recruited.

Yet another thing that most people don't seem to understand. I think most of the time some people just skim throught the pages of some of these books than actually sit down and read them.

[DBM]

The current Baron Zemo was never a Nazi. His father was a Nazi. The current Baron Zemo just emulated his father to some degree while seeking revenge for his death. He was never really a Nazi though.

[The Question]

Yeah. The New Baron Zemo is more of a crime boss/bond villain type than anything else. Still, I agree for the rest. Except for Deadpool. Deadpool isn't working for the feds, he's just trying to get on their good side.

[Hairlesswookie]

Originally Posted by The Question

Except for Deadpool. Deadpool isn't working for the feds, he's just trying to get on their good side.

Actaully, he did get a badge in the latest Cable/Deadpool to hunt anti-regs.

[The Question]

He did? Wow. That's messed up. Deadpool's a great character, but he's horribly psychologically unstable. Everyone seems to be acting irrationally and out of character in Civil War.

[Willowhugger]

Well Baron Zemo may not himself be a Nazi but the fact remains he's still one of the worst terrorists on the planet. I can't even begin to justify the rationale here really.

Has Tony Stark lost his mind too?

[GNR]

I just know that if I lived in the 616,I would be pro-reg all the way.

[TheCorpulent1]

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

Well Baron Zemo may not himself be a Nazi but the fact remains he's still one of the worst terrorists on the planet. I can't even begin to justify the rationale here really.

Has Tony Stark lost his mind too?

Deputizing Baron Zemo is actually not that big a deal. Zemo's been leading the Thunderbolts for a while, and he's shown that he's interested in doing good. He even convinced Captain America that, although his methods may have been a bit questionable, he was ultimately on the side of the angels in the last Avengers/T-bolts mini. Take that, plus the fact that Iron Man himself is no saint, and I see Tony's deputizing Zemo as the least of Civil War's problems.

[Willowhugger]

Yeah, I took that moment to be Captain America losing his mind as well.

So guys, post here what YOU think is odd.

[The Question]

Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1

Deputizing Baron Zemo is actually not that big a deal. Zemo's been leading the Thunderbolts for a while, and he's shown that he's interested in doing good. He even convinced Captain America that, although his methods may have been a bit questionable, he was ultimately on the side of the angels in the last Avengers/T-bolts mini. Take that, plus the fact that Iron Man himself is no saint, and I see Tony's deputizing Zemo as the least of Civil War's problems.

Well, his past as an international crime lord/terrorist, and the fact that he remains a manipulative ******* even as a hero should keep a logical person from deputizing him as a federal agent.

Originally Posted by Willowhugger

Yeah, I took that moment to be Captain America losing his mind as well.

So guys, post here what YOU think is odd.

Just how everyone is reacting. They're all taking their side of things to the most illogical conclusions. Standing up for their side in the most irrational ways possible. It all just seems like an excuse to have big fight scenes.

[TheCorpulent1]

Originally Posted by The Question

Well, his past as an international crime lord/terrorist, and the fact that he remains a manipulative ******* even as a hero should keep a logical person from deputizing him as a federal agent.



Just how everyone is reacting. They're all taking their side of things to the most illogical conclusions. Standing up for their side in the most irrational ways possible. It all just seems like an excuse to have big fight scenes.

You seem to have provided the answer to your own problem.

[The Question]

Fair point. Still doesn't change the fact that they're all acting like a bunch of idiots.

[Willowhugger]

Well I just find it ironic. The Kingpin had one of the best moments in Marvel when the FBI turned on him despite his deal with them. In that respect, it was a great acknowledgement that the world doesn't exist in a bizarro land where the law won't screw the villain just to get at the good guy.

yet...New York Mafia don vs. Man whom mesmerized the entire world....

I can believe (barely) deals with Magneto and Doctor Doom. Baron Zemo, the Red Skull, Apocalypse, Baron Von Strucker (in fact...anyone with the word Baron in their names)...not so much.

I understand Iron Man and Captain America's positions oddly but what I don't get is why both of them aren't trying to get to the bottom of this Act since there's obviously so much going on underneath it.

[TheCorpulent1]

My guess is that they're kind of busy. Tony doesn't seem to be asking questions, and Tony is in turn creating too many problems for Cap's forces for them to ask questions.

[The Question]

It would really piss me off if this were some kind of consperacy. Really, what I think should have happened with the act is have it be introduced as something happening in the MU and then leave it alone. No mini series. Just having each book deal with it as a sub plot.

[Willowhugger]

Originally Posted by The Question

It would really piss me off if this were some kind of consperacy. Really, what I think should have happened with the act is have it be introduced as something happening in the MU and then leave it alone. No mini series. Just having each book deal with it as a sub plot.

I don't mind the conspiracy. What I would like is that maybe just maybe the conspiracy gets DESTROYED.

* In Spiderman we have Haliburton (or its equivalent) releasing crooks to fight Spiderman on the assumption Spiderman for some reason would be investigating the military industrial complex.

* The New HYDRA is apparently controlled by the New SHIELD.

* Red Skull is Secretary of Defense

* The USA knowing about El Frozen Captain America and doing nothing.

etc etc.

And just once I'd like it exposed that its all connected and an evil group and TAKEN DOWN so its not assumed that the government is doing something wicked every second by its very nature.

[TheCorpulent1]

The evil group seems to be the government as a whole. Cool for anarchists; not so much for anyone else.

[Grim Goblin]

what I find odd is that Marvel can portray characters like this.....
















...and then do a complete 180 on those characters' beliefs barely a year later.