What would have made "X-Men: The Last Stand" the best of the series:

[My Red Sight]

If Cyclops just would have came to Alcatraz it would have been perfict, maybe we'll get an alternative battle scene in the DVD where he does come, I can wish...

[ntcrawler]

Originally Posted by My Red Sight

If Cyclops just would have came to Alcatraz it would have been perfict, maybe we'll get an alternative battle scene in the DVD where he does come, I can wish...

The look on Jean's face when she realizes he's alive and that she didn't kill him and they were wrong to tell her so, would be one of the top 3 moments of the film and well worth the price of a ticket

[My Red Sight]

^Yes! If only, if only. But hey, I still liked the movie.

[JPJappic]

I too was greatly dissapointed with how Cyclops ended up getting 'killed' in the movie. I, like many others, feel that he is indeed not dead. We never did actually see it. And a comic book guy told me that somethign similar happened in the comic books between Scott and Jean.

The one thing I've been thinking about lately that could have made the ending to X3 so much better.. well there are a few things...

1. Cyclops somehow comes back :P In my mind he should have been the one to kill Jean.. Wolverine does NOT cry.. nor could he possibly love Jean after only a few days of being around her... if you look back on all three movies.. he met her in X1.. he maybe spent up to a week with her until he took off to Alkali Lake.. maybe spent up to another week with her in X2... then Jean 'died'... and then the whole thing in X3.. how could you fall madly in love with someone after a few days?!? it's not possible. Be realistic here people... lol

2. I actually would have liked the humans to take it up a notch in X3 and have the Sentinels at the end of the movie. Sure we got a glimpse of them in the Danger Room.. but wouldn't it have been great for like a group of sentinels to confront them all at the end? That would have been one heck of a final fight.

3. I do have to agree with someone else from this thread about Colossus.. give him more lines.. and why can't he speak Russian? x_x

As for Rogue.. i read somewhere that it was cause Anna had another movie going on and had scheduling problems which is why Rogue wasn't shown heavily in the movie.. I love Rogue in the comic books. I feel in the movies that she was completely useless... They could have taken her out completely and gotten around certain things. As someone did say earlier.. Rogue would have been tempted by the cure but she wouldn't have taken it. She's better than that and she would have stuck by her friends in their time of need. Personally.. i would have thoroughly enjoyed having Gambit stop her from getting the cure :P

4. Gambit!!! Why couldn't he have been in ANY of the movies?!?! Though Iceman is definately cool.... I want Gambit to put a charged card down his pants so that he can have his lady back. lol

[Cyrusbales]

Locations were also very poor, they should have learned from elektra, that woods are just sucky!

The character selection is really awful! Gambit, jubilee, c'mon, there's lotsa decent characters! and badguys, don't get started, there are sooooo many better characters!

Jugganaught, they ruined his character, the writing 'i need a pee', not exactly hardcore killing machine is it?

The special effects were too over the top, and the phoenix was too much, not right for the atmosphere of X-men movies. And the wirework with her was tragic!

The characters were all changed, they were not the people established in the previous films, I really can't stress this enough.

This film was pretty bad for me, bad acting, bad writing, and bad choices.

[ntcrawler]

[quote=JPJappic]I too was greatly dissapointed with how Cyclops ended up getting 'killed' in the movie. I, like many others, feel that he is indeed not dead. We never did actually see it. And a comic book guy told me that somethign similar happened in the comic books between Scott and Jean.

Except in the comic books Jean never killed her teammates, even when she lost control and became Dark Phoenix. Especially Scott. That's been sort-of a given.

1. Cyclops somehow comes back :P In my mind he should have been the one to kill Jean.. Wolverine does NOT cry.. nor could he possibly love Jean after only a few days of being around her... if you look back on all three movies.. he met her in X1.. he maybe spent up to a week with her until he took off to Alkali Lake.. maybe spent up to another week with her in X2... then Jean 'died'... and then the whole thing in X3.. how could you fall madly in love with someone after a few days?!? it's not possible.

It was more of a crush, lust and wishful thinking. Knowing that it's like to be her and about caging the beast are little things, he didn't have the chance to get to know her or learn those little things you need to make love blossom and a relationship last. Scott's been doing it for 15 years so obviously he has an advantage. As for how much time Logan spent with Jean? It's actually shorter than you think.

X1: Xavier asked Logan to give him 48 hours. So considering the amount of time he was at the mansion and stopping Magneto was about 3-4 days, tops. Then after Ellis Island he pretty much rode off as soon as possible. 5-6 days tops for X1

X2: Logan arrives, talks to Jean for about 5 minutes, then she's off to Boston. Next afternoot they get reunited, spend that night in the forest, next day they set off to attack Alkali Lake where Jean dies. Total time: 2-3 days.

X3: About 5 minutes with Jean while she's concious making out on the medical exam table until she hurls him into a wall. No interaction at the Grey family house. Another 1-2 minutes yelling at her in the forest until Magneto catapults him out of there. Alcatraz: no interaction until the last 5 minutes where he professes his love to her and kills her. Total elapsed time: 30 minutes. Wolverine's charm must work fast.

We're looking at 9-10 days tops. Don't even try to compare that to 15 years. Don't even try to tell someone that there was ever any conflict or temptation that would put Jean and Scott's relationship in Jeopardy. Well all know Logan didn't have pure, sincere thoughts for her. Just watch X3. What's the first thing she says him him? "Oh Logan, you're making me blush". She didn't blush by realizing how much he missed her and was worried about her. To think otherwise, you're only fooling yourselves ond trying to add an angle into the films that wasn't meant to be there in the first place, until the X3 people went totally overboard with the concept, especially at the ending. "I Love you" he says? I don't think so.

2. I actually would have liked the humans to take it up a notch in X3 and have the Sentinels at the end of the movie. Sure we got a glimpse of them in the Danger Room.. but wouldn't it have been great for like a group of sentinels to confront them all at the end? That would have been one heck of a final fight.

Just the aftermath of that botched attempt with the evil Cerebro to kill all the mutants and then all the humans resulted in a worldwide massacre that should have justified using the sentinels.

And a man who can rip off the Golden Gate Bridge and move it at his liking justifies what Senator Kelly said that mutants are dangerous.

3. I do have to agree with someone else from this thread about Colossus.. give him more lines.. and why can't he speak Russian? x_x

For the same reason that Storm lost her African accent.

[JPJappic]

Originally Posted by ntcrawler

It's actually shorter than you think.

We're looking at 9-10 days tops. Don't even try to compare that to 15 years. Don't even try to tell someone that there was ever any conflict or temptation that would put Jean and Scott's relationship in Jeopardy. Well all know Logan didn't have pure, sincere thoughts for her. Just watch X3. What's the first thing she says him him? "Oh Logan, you're making me blush". She didn't blush by realizing how much he missed her and was worried about her. To think otherwise, you're only fooling yourselves ond trying to add an angle into the films that wasn't meant to be there in the first place, until the X3 people went totally overboard with the concept, especially at the ending. "I Love you" he says? I don't think so.

You're sooooooo right.

Originally Posted by ntcrawler

For the same reason that Storm lost her African accent.

I actually really liked the Storm in X1 because of the accent.. when things really started going wrong in X2 and X3 is when i started hating her.. she wasn't acting... Storm-like. And what's with all the unnecessary spinning in X3?

At least Rogue had the accent throughout.. that's one thing I'm definately happy about.

[The Kid]

this was sorta like terminator 3. Not too shtty, not really great, just an entertaining romp.

T3 could have been the best of the terminator movies but I still think t2 and t1 are above it, t1 not by much.

What's t3's problem? Its still teasing us about the huge future war instead of throwing us right into it for a whole film. and what's this judgment day is inevitable bs? boo... oh my stars and garters.

[Iceman]

I agree with most of the points in the 1st post. The pacing is the most serious problem to me. With an extra 45 minutes or so I think we would have a very good film. Cyke's death should also have been left ambiguous if they were having problems with Marsden.

[Stripesy Strip]

Heck it`s not like Cyclops was all over the other movies too. So I can`t see how people were missing what they never saw and the bad actor that played Cyclops. Sometime I think people are asking things that they would hate had these very things happened. They whine about things that were not there but then when they see what they asked for they whine even more.

James Mardsen does not have the acting capability or charisma to carry a movie! It would have been a disaster.

I`m so tired about these countless threads about the same thing, about freaking Cyclops!

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Stripesy Strip

Heck it`s not like Cyclops was all over the other movies too. So I can`t see how people were missing what they never saw and the bad actor that played Cyclops. Sometime I think people are asking things that they would hate had these very things happened. They whine about things that were not there but then when they see what they asked for they whine even more.

James Mardsen does not have the acting capability or charisma to carry a movie! It would have been a disaster.

I`m so tired about these countless threads about the same thing, about freaking Cyclops!

Cyke is only of 5 options given by Nell for potential improvements. This is hardly a whining thread, it is looking at suggestions for ways of making a good film (with obviouis faults) into a great film.

[JPJappic]

Originally Posted by Stripesy Strip

Heck it`s not like Cyclops was all over the other movies too. So I can`t see how people were missing what they never saw and the bad actor that played Cyclops. Sometime I think people are asking things that they would hate had these very things happened. They whine about things that were not there but then when they see what they asked for they whine even more.

James Mardsen does not have the acting capability or charisma to carry a movie! It would have been a disaster.

I`m so tired about these countless threads about the same thing, about freaking Cyclops!

Speak for yourself.. in my mind James Marsden IS Cyclops. I couldn't have imagined him being played by anyone better.

The fact that so many threads are about one character that got shafted in the last X-Men movie obviously proves that 1) he has a fan base and 2) that people do actually care what happens to the characters. If you're not happy that most of the threads happen to have a mention of Cyke in it, stop reading them?

[La_She-Beast]

And I think you read half of what we've been saying these last threads, Stripesy Strip...

[ntcrawler]

One big improvement (or rather lots of improvements) Would be to make X3 actually consistent with the other two films. X1 and X2 set up situations, conflicts, subplots, and asked questions that in X3 were either forgotten, unexplained, abandoned, or just plain ignored. I'll ask again: how can you consider a film to conclude a trilogy when you don't even show closure to things that were set up in the previous 2 films? THAT certainly would have made X3 better. This is one of the reasons why people demand an X4. To see these issues settled or concluded.

[JPJappic]

Originally Posted by ntcrawler

This is one of the reasons why people demand an X4. To see these issues settled or concluded.

I want an X4 mainly so that Rogue can be with a real man... lol Gambit. ^_^

[Loganbabe]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

Disclaimer: This is not a complaint post. I enjoyed this movie very much. It took me awhile to be able to take to the new style (I.E.; not Singer's), but I've very much come to love the product we got. So no, this is not a complaint post, but in fact, the opposite, to show just how close this movie was, in my mind, to being the best.

Very good post...altough I disagree with some of the things you say, it´s great to read a well balanced and fair criticism from the point of view of a X-Man fan who, like myself, enjoyed X3 a lot. Bravo!

[ntcrawler]

To see characters keep the promises they made in X1 and X2 and see them actually carried out, that would have made X3 the best of the series, or at least more consistent.

[AznBABYBANDIT]

Ok i'm gonna say one more time.. in TJN, jean admitted that Cyc DIED cuz she KILLED him

[ntcrawler]

Originally Posted by AznBABYBANDIT

Ok i'm gonna say one more time.. in TJN, jean admitted that Cyc DIED cuz she KILLED him

Dude, how old are you? 10? 12? The Junior novel isn't considered canon, especially in areas where it directly contradicts what's clearly established in the film OR the official novelization. In the film she does not admit to killing Scott. In the novel she does not admit to killing Scott. Logan asks what happens and she acts confused and withdraws and says something along the lines of "Oh God... kill me before I kill someone else". What you're trying to quote is not established in either medium and contradicts both. It's meant to simplify things for younger readers, but whatever it changes has about as much weight as any piece of unofficial fanfiction would.

Furthermore, your junior novel only proves what I've been saying about the film itself. That it contradicts things clearly laid out and established in the previous two films, including promises made by characters known for their integrity, things they would not say unless they intended to actually keep them. To actually keep these things consistent would have made the film better.

[AznBABYBANDIT]

The point i see as a psy'gist. is that the point shown by xavier being demolecrized was strong enough for them belive and know that Cyc was killed the same way...

And to build the tension in a film... you don't go... I KILLED HIM... KILL ME

you build the suspence up

yet however because juniors will not really solve it since it say... Jean killed Proffy. so, she says I KILLED HIM.

It's to simplify things

[ntcrawler]

Originally Posted by AznBABYBANDIT

The point i see as a psy'gist. is that the point shown by xavier being demolecrized was strong enough for them belive and know that Cyc was killed the same way...

what???

And to build the tension in a film... you don't go... I KILLED HIM... KILL ME

you build the suspence up

Suspense that never gets anywhere since Cyclopss fate is not clearly established. It's more like they're forcing ideas into Jean's head that she killed Scott and Jean becomes angry at this and lashes out. Even his grave at the very end is an afterthought. No one bothered to mention his "death" during Xavier's funeral either.

yet however because juniors will not really solve it since it say... Jean killed Proffy. so, she says I KILLED HIM.

Which again is not what she says in the official novel or the film, so what she says in this and any other book does not hold canon.

It's to simplify things

It also contradicts things.

[AznBABYBANDIT]

whatever, not argueing with you... still IMO Cyc is dead... and not the kind who is coming back.

[ntcrawler]

A music score that has a well established, recurring theme and doesn't change as quickly as Ratner's crazy scene changes but has a chance to flesh out the melody like the score for X1 would have made X3 better.

[k0uger]

Originally Posted by ntcrawler

A music score that has a well established, recurring theme and doesn't change as quickly as Ratner's crazy scene changes but has a chance to flesh out the melody like the score for X1 would have made X3 better.

I've been a lurker her for awhile, but that is the gripe i had with this movie. The music did not match the "singerverse"

Can't wait to see the 3 alternate endings and 10 deleted scenes on the dvd

[ntcrawler]

Originally Posted by k0uger

I've been a lurker her for awhile, but that is the gripe i had with this movie. The music did not match the "singerverse"

Other famous series known not only for their story but their music are Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Superman (ok, so John Williams did the music for all of these) that always retain the basic melodies at least when it involves the main story of the film, or the main chars and with each movie added other themes to specific characters or character pairings but in each case the basic melody was always recognizeable and remembered.

X3 had a great film score but didn't fall back on the basic "X-men" theme which I thought added a nice touch as the melody doesn't sound happy and exciting but in a way touches at sadness with a bit of determination. The Phoenix-related music had this aura of mystery, wonder and fear but for critical scenes like Alkali Lake, Whirlpool of Love is too loud and rushed. That scene and the music should have been tender, and touching. Gentle. With a hint towards the end that something MAY be wrong. Instead of this loud obnoxious symphonic crescendo and another crescendo at the final end that just blows up in your face and switches to Xavier screaming.