Kind of a comic newbie....

chandlerbong · 08-03-2006, 12:42 AM

Ever since I started following Batman Begins, back in, August 03', I started to lurk on the boards and see some of the discussions that bat-fans were having about the film. As I followed production, and started to pick up and learn some of the Batman Mythos, I felt a little in the dark, "comic book-wise." After finally building up the nerve to buy, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Haunted Knight, I came home and read TLH from cover to cover in about an hour, and couldn't believe how great of a read it was. I put the books away, and then forgot about them. After the press release of The Dark Knight I got pumped and amped and just reread TLH.

My questions are:
1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome!
2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory?
3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.

In advance, theank you for all your help!

Joker · 08-03-2006, 01:00 AM

1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome!

up to debate, I say it was Gilda Dent up until the coroner, where Falcone took over, but others say Harvey was in there, I dont think so though

2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory?

I would agree, but Haunted Knight must take place during TLH, it just never crossed over with the main story from it.

3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.

The Killing Joke is the definitive Joker story, with Man Who Laughs in a close second...I thought Hush was great, and if you liked TLH, HK, and DV you should definitly pick it up...alot of people love Dark Knight Returns, although I only liked the two-face story and the superman fight, the rest sucked imho...Year One is incredible

CConn · 08-03-2006, 01:10 AM

Batman and the Monster Men (which will be released in TPB later this month) is also quite fantastic, IMO.

Mister J · 08-03-2006, 01:11 AM

The first two questions were pretty much covered. In adding to the graphic novel mention, I'd underscore what The Joker said about The Killing Joke, The Man Who Laughs and Year One. I'd recommend Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth as well.

Spare-Flair · 08-03-2006, 02:26 AM

I like Hush more than the Killing Joke. I think the Killing Joke is overrated with a flimsy characterization of the Joker's plot (and pathetic ending with a crappy joke) only for the purpose of driving his origin vehicle.

With Hush, I got to see all my favorites and go through Detective twists and turns.

Cobblepot · 08-03-2006, 04:22 AM

The ending of TKJ was brillaint, Joker knows if he doesn't do anything about it. He'll be beat to a bloody pulp, thus he diffusses the situation with a Joke. A lot of people would do something simulair in a situation like this, he just takes it a little further. Plus the "smile" on batsys face was priceless...heh.

Fear of god · 08-03-2006, 05:59 AM

Batman: The Cult

it's like No Man's Land & Knightfall in one book and a little bit morbid.

Joker · 08-03-2006, 02:30 PM

the joke at the end of killing joke was the only way to end it. It showed that Joker did in fact know that if him and Batman dont stop the endless cycle of murder and revenge that they're on, one or both of them is going to end up dead. the problem is, he knows it's too late for him, and that there's no way to bring him back from his insanity at this point. The joke was a moment of clarity for him when he realized this, and perfectly summed up his and Batmans whole situation, both of them crazy, but on different sides of the chasm of the roof of the lunatic asylum.

Punch · 08-03-2006, 11:01 PM

^ it also demonstrated that even in a society where men dress up like bats, the Joker is still outside the conventions of that society.

Spare-Flair · 08-04-2006, 03:29 AM

All it demonstrated to me was a pointless story device used to change Barbara's character dramatically and also to flesh out an origin.

Otherwise, TKJ was nothing but pure anticlimatic storytelling and it's horrible. Batman and the Joker laughing together on a hill over a stupid 100 year old joke that everybody's heard? It's just bad. Joker's the one doing the murdering, the scales are not even balanced enough for that kind of an ending.

Goddamn_Batman · 08-04-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spare-Flair

All it demonstrated to me was a pointless story device used to change Barbara's character dramatically and also to flesh out an origin.

Otherwise, TKJ was nothing but pure anticlimatic storytelling and it's horrible. Batman and the Joker laughing together on a hill over a stupid 100 year old joke that everybody's heard? It's just bad. Joker's the one doing the murdering, the scales are not even balanced enough for that kind of an ending.

Wow man. Did Moore beat you up at a convention or something?

Archangel · 08-04-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goddamn_Batman

Wow man. Did Moore beat you up at a convention or something?

Probably not, but he totally should.

hippie_hunter · 08-04-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chandlerbong

1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome!

What I love so much about this book is that after years that it has come out, this is still up for debate. In my opinion Holiday was Gilda Dent, Harvey Dent, and Alberto Falcone (everyone agrees that Gilda and Alberto were both Holiday, like the Joker said, Harvey is up for debate)

Quote:

2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory?

The Long Halloween and then Dark Victory. Haunted Knight is not in continuity but it is still a good story.

Quote:

3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read.

Batman Year One
The Man Who Laughed
Batman and the Monster Men

* As you can see these are stories that take place in Batman's early days before he became such a paranoid dickwad with a clusterf**k of villains, sidekicks, and gadgets. This is my favorite period of Batman stories.

Robin Year One
Batgirl Year One
Nightwing Year One

* I like the Year One stories, even though they feel nothing like Batman Year One.

The Killing Joke

* Alan Moore is awesome!

Batman: Under the Hood

* The resurection of Jason Todd is quite controversal, but I loved Winnick's run on Batman, asides from Superboy Primes Super-Emo-Crystal-Wall-Shattering-Continuity-F**king-Up-Punches. Too bad Jones f**ked it all up in his terrible run on Nightwing.

Joker · 08-04-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spare-Flair

All it demonstrated to me was a pointless story device used to change Barbara's character dramatically and also to flesh out an origin.

Otherwise, TKJ was nothing but pure anticlimatic storytelling and it's horrible. Batman and the Joker laughing together on a hill over a stupid 100 year old joke that everybody's heard? It's just bad. Joker's the one doing the murdering, the scales are not even balanced enough for that kind of an ending.

you are aware that Killing Joke was originally not in continuity, arent you? so it wasnt an excuse to change Barbara at all, because she wasnt actually supposed to have been changed by it. The response from the fans on the story was so positive, and it was such a great book, that they put it in continuity.

Qoèlet · 08-05-2006, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippie_hunter

(everyone agrees that Gilda and Alberto were both Holiday, like the Joker said, Harvey is up for debate).

Sadly, for certain folks around these boards, Gilda being Holiday is for some reason very much up for debate. I can't understand it myself, but I've seen the most longwinded, sense-defying explanations of how it's "unreasonable" to say Gilda was really the killer and how she instead has this bizzarre mental condition brought on by stress, thus convincing herself that she was really the killer.... because, you know, that's WAY more reasonable than the thought that she might actually do things that she says she did.

But yeah, if Harvey fit in or not, that's uncertain. That's sort of the point.

Overall, the best storyline, which should be read over and over again, has got to be Knightfall and Knightsend. On The Killing Joke issue... I thought it was good, but not fantastic.

Revovler · 08-05-2006, 01:11 AM

Harvey along with Gilda and Alberto is Holiday. At the end of the TLH when Gilda is burning the clothing she says Harvey had the same idea and shot Alberto. Also Two face says "you know there were two" not considering Alberto. Well that is my opinion. As for The Killing Joke I really believe you should get The Man Who Laughs along with it because it seems to me to be the climax.

Joker · 08-05-2006, 02:25 AM

No, Harvey knew that Alberto was Holiday, because he was caught and it was in all the papers. He also considered himself Holiday for killing The Roman at the end on a holiday, and never knew Gilda did anything. Gilda killed everyone up till Alberto, who faked his own death, and Gilda thought that Harvey had taken over after her example. But, I guess Harvey could have also done some of the earlier ones, in between where Gilda and Alberto switched, but I like to think he still had a handle on his sanity until he was scarred.

hippie_hunter · 08-05-2006, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Joker

No, Harvey knew that Alberto was Holiday, because he was caught and it was in all the papers. He also considered himself Holiday for killing The Roman at the end on a holiday, and never knew Gilda did anything. Gilda killed everyone up till Alberto, who faked his own death, and Gilda thought that Harvey had taken over after her example. But, I guess Harvey could have also done some of the earlier ones, in between where Gilda and Alberto switched, but I like to think he still had a handle on his sanity until he was scarred.

I always assumed that Gilda was the killer from Halloween to Thanksgiving, Harvey was the killer from Christmas to St. Patrick's Day, Alberto from April Fools Day to Labor Day, and Two-Face on Halloween.

I think that Harvey tried to kill Alberto but failed to do so

Carmine Falcone · 08-05-2006, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CConn

Batman and the Monster Men (which will be released in TPB later this month) is also quite fantastic, IMO.

I can't wait to read it...

Two-Face · 08-05-2006, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revovler

I really believe you should get The Man Who Laughs.

Yeah if you can find it! whicch was hard to find anywhere til I looked at ebay.

GNR · 08-07-2006, 12:05 PM

This is coming from another Bat noob:

Dark Knight Returns
Year One
TLH
DV
Kingdom Come(Bats plays a big part)

Kool-Aid · 08-07-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two Face

Yeah if you can find it! whicch was hard to find anywhere til I looked at ebay.

Really? Its hard to find? I bought it a few months back and it was at the first coimc shop I looked for it.

GNR · 08-07-2006, 12:18 PM

I'm really in no hurry to read Hush.I don't know why.

Kool-Aid · 08-07-2006, 12:44 PM

Are you planning on getting The Man Who Laughs or The Killing Joke?

Batty Belfry · 08-07-2006, 01:36 PM

I think my next purchase is gonna be the Hush 3vol. set.

08-03-2006, 12:42 AM	#1
chandlerbong Could I BE Funnier?! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago, Illinois Posts: 475	Kind of a comic newbie.... Ever since I started following Batman Begins, back in, August 03', I started to lurk on the boards and see some of the discussions that bat-fans were having about the film. As I followed production, and started to pick up and learn some of the Batman Mythos, I felt a little in the dark, "comic book-wise." After finally building up the nerve to buy, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and Haunted Knight, I came home and read TLH from cover to cover in about an hour, and couldn't believe how great of a read it was. I put the books away, and then forgot about them. After the press release of The Dark Knight I got pumped and amped and just reread TLH. My questions are: 1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome! 2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory? 3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read. In advance, theank you for all your help! __________________ Well Respected Member of ATNAG Chandler: I can handle this. "Handle" is my middle name. Actually, "handle" is the middle of my first name.

08-03-2006, 01:00 AM	#2
Joker Banned User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Ha-Hacienda Posts: 33,772	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... 1.Who's the real Holiday?, and a little explanation would be awesome! up to debate, I say it was Gilda Dent up until the coroner, where Falcone took over, but others say Harvey was in there, I dont think so though 2.What the order of the books I bought? Is it TLH, then Haunted Knight, then Dark Victory? I would agree, but Haunted Knight must take place during TLH, it just never crossed over with the main story from it. 3.Finally, what are some other good graphic novels to buy? I heard The Killing Joke was good from the Dark Knight forums, and Hush seems to have mixed reviews her from what I've read. The Killing Joke is the definitive Joker story, with Man Who Laughs in a close second...I thought Hush was great, and if you liked TLH, HK, and DV you should definitly pick it up...alot of people love Dark Knight Returns, although I only liked the two-face story and the superman fight, the rest sucked imho...Year One is incredible

08-03-2006, 01:10 AM	#3
CConn Fountainhead of culture. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters Posts: 57,433	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... Batman and the Monster Men (which will be released in TPB later this month) is also quite fantastic, IMO. __________________ It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.

08-03-2006, 01:11 AM	#4
Mister J His Belief > Your Doubt SHH! Global Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Aww, isn't that cute ...BUT IT'S WRONG!!!!! Posts: 35,140	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... The first two questions were pretty much covered. In adding to the graphic novel mention, I'd underscore what The Joker said about The Killing Joke, The Man Who Laughs and Year One. I'd recommend Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth as well. __________________ There can only be one state of mind as you approach any profound test; total concentration, a spirit of togetherness and strength. Patrick James Riley 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

08-03-2006, 02:26 AM	#5
Spare-Flair Side-Kick Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,174	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... I like Hush more than the Killing Joke. I think the Killing Joke is overrated with a flimsy characterization of the Joker's plot (and pathetic ending with a crappy joke) only for the purpose of driving his origin vehicle. With Hush, I got to see all my favorites and go through Detective twists and turns. __________________ BATMAN JOKE ART http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...d.php?t=223715

08-03-2006, 04:22 AM	#6
Cobblepot Giant-Size Man-Thing Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Rotterdam Posts: 9,860	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... The ending of TKJ was brillaint, Joker knows if he doesn't do anything about it. He'll be beat to a bloody pulp, thus he diffusses the situation with a Joke. A lot of people would do something simulair in a situation like this, he just takes it a little further. Plus the "smile" on batsys face was priceless...heh. __________________ Thanks Heath, Alan Grant & Norm Breyfogle!! You don't get it boy, this isn't a mudhole. It's an operating table. And I'm the surgeon.

08-03-2006, 05:59 AM	#7
Fear of god Side-Kick Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 70	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... Batman: The Cult it's like No Man's Land & Knightfall in one book and a little bit morbid.

08-03-2006, 02:30 PM	#8
Joker Banned User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Ha-Hacienda Posts: 33,772	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... the joke at the end of killing joke was the only way to end it. It showed that Joker did in fact know that if him and Batman dont stop the endless cycle of murder and revenge that they're on, one or both of them is going to end up dead. the problem is, he knows it's too late for him, and that there's no way to bring him back from his insanity at this point. The joke was a moment of clarity for him when he realized this, and perfectly summed up his and Batmans whole situation, both of them crazy, but on different sides of the chasm of the roof of the lunatic asylum.

08-03-2006, 11:01 PM	#9
Punch Side-Kick Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 843	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... ^ it also demonstrated that even in a society where men dress up like bats, the Joker is still outside the conventions of that society. __________________ *As for myself: I had come to the conclusion that there was nothing sacred about myself or any human being, that we were all machines, doomed to collide and collide and collide.* - Kurt Vonnegut

08-04-2006, 03:29 AM	#10
Spare-Flair Side-Kick Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,174	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... All it demonstrated to me was a pointless story device used to change Barbara's character dramatically and also to flesh out an origin. Otherwise, TKJ was nothing but pure anticlimatic storytelling and it's horrible. Batman and the Joker laughing together on a hill over a stupid 100 year old joke that everybody's heard? It's just bad. Joker's the one doing the murdering, the scales are not even balanced enough for that kind of an ending. __________________ BATMAN JOKE ART http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...d.php?t=223715

08-05-2006, 01:11 AM	#16
Revovler Side-Kick Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 45	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... Harvey along with Gilda and Alberto is Holiday. At the end of the TLH when Gilda is burning the clothing she says Harvey had the same idea and shot Alberto. Also Two face says "you know there were two" not considering Alberto. Well that is my opinion. As for The Killing Joke I really believe you should get The Man Who Laughs along with it because it seems to me to be the climax.

08-05-2006, 02:25 AM	#17
Joker Banned User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Ha-Hacienda Posts: 33,772	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... No, Harvey knew that Alberto was Holiday, because he was caught and it was in all the papers. He also considered himself Holiday for killing The Roman at the end on a holiday, and never knew Gilda did anything. Gilda killed everyone up till Alberto, who faked his own death, and Gilda thought that Harvey had taken over after her example. But, I guess Harvey could have also done some of the earlier ones, in between where Gilda and Alberto switched, but I like to think he still had a handle on his sanity until he was scarred.

08-07-2006, 12:05 PM	#21
GNR worships John Matrix. Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 10,822	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... This is coming from another Bat noob: Dark Knight Returns Year One TLH DV Kingdom Come(Bats plays a big part) Last edited by GNR; 08-07-2006 at 12:18 PM.

08-07-2006, 12:18 PM	#23
GNR worships John Matrix. Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 10,822	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... I'm really in no hurry to read Hush.I don't know why.

08-07-2006, 12:44 PM	#24
Kool-Aid Side-Kick Join Date: May 2006 Location: BAAALLLLIN Posts: 1,458	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... Are you planning on getting The Man Who Laughs or The Killing Joke? __________________ Human sacrifice, dogs and cats, living together... mass hysteria! "I am the anti-christ" - *Britney Spears*

08-07-2006, 01:36 PM	#25
Batty Belfry Just some nut... Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 1,583	Re: Kind of a comic newbie.... I think my next purchase is gonna be the Hush 3vol. set.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode