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Old 08-16-2006, 07:26 PM   #1
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The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

HalleHughHate
What's REALLY Going On Here?


By Lightning Strikez!


I can keep silent no longer.

I've been quietly perusing this board during the last few weeks, and I've noticed an influx of threads complaining about how certain marquee players in this franchise need to "go away". In particular, two of the reasons this franchise has been successful--namely Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry--seem to be the target of most of these "anti" sentiments.

Now, maybe I saw a different X1 and X2 than some of you, but it seems that Berry (Storm) is only just now becoming a real player in this franchise. Despite the way she was marketed before, she played a supporting character in the prior films. She was billed 5th and 4th in them respectively, and unlike others, never received an origin story, nor a role in any of the romantic plots. Even in X3, she did not carry Scott's torch in his absence...she played second-in-command to Logan. So as critics have agreed, not much changed in her role from X1, to X2 to X3.

Yet, according to some of you, suddenly Halle's become this huge "problem" that threatens to eat up all the other X-Men's body parts!?? How did this happen? It can't be *only* about her salary because she always made more than the other actors--despite her comparatively minor role. And it can't be about screentime because--let's face it--she wasn't really more visible in X3 than X2 sans more action sequences (and much of her stuff was chopped--as usual).

So when putting it all in perspective, what is really accounting for all the hate? To see my point more clearly, let's consider two of the other top actors who--for some reason--are not receiving similiar backlash, shall we?


***

* Famke Janssen's character certainly has had a substantial role (especially as part of the romantic twists in all three films) and moved up on the casting credits (to Halle's former position)--yet I don't hear people stating that she's eating up everyone else's screentime--even though she's gotten the most character development of the X-Women.

*Magneto's (Ian's) role in each film was consistently huge. In fact, prior to X3, he received top billing over TWO Oscar-winning actresses, and had more screentime than both of them yet again in X3. Yet, no one is complaining about him eating up everyone's screentime. No one is saying "Do we really need Ian?" Hmmmm....

So what is the REAL problem here? Why the disconnect?

Could it be that people are bent out of shape because their personal favorite characters were not treated the way they preferred? Are some of us simply angry and venting accordingly, even though the character dynamics have never really changed in 6 years (with Logan still front and center with everyone else supporting him)?

I sense jealousy...and maybe even hypocrisy in some of these posts....but I could be wrong. Would someone care to explain it to me?

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Old 08-16-2006, 07:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: HalleHughHate: What's REALLY Going On Here?

Overall, I think people need to realize this was an ensemble cast. Some characters will get more attention than others. I love or love to hate all of the characters for some reason or another. Naturally, I think some characters got more time than others and some like Scott deserved something more. I disagree in that I think Storm had a substantial part in X3 though not as predominant as Jean. My absolute favorite is Jean (with Scott and Logan tied for second) and I did enjoy getting to see her have a big role in the beginning of X3. I do agree though. I am sick of all of these ________ got too much screen time posts. Give it a rest people.

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Old 08-16-2006, 07:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

Again with the jealousy? What are people supposedly jealouse of?

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Old 08-16-2006, 07:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

I never had an H problem. I have the 3 R's problem: Rothman/Ratner/wRiting.

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Old 08-16-2006, 07:54 PM   #5
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

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Originally Posted by CapBeerCino
Again with the jealousy? What are people supposedly jealouse of?

That, my dear, is the very question this thread's investigating.

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Old 08-16-2006, 07:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

The problem is that Halle and Hugh have been put front and center for the movie. Even Zak (I believe it was him) admitted it. Just about everyone else has been put on the backburner because of it.

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Strikez!
Could it be that people are bent out of shape because their personal favorite characters were not treated the way they preferred? Are some of us simply jealous and venting accordingly, even though the character dynamics have never really changed in 6 years (with Logan still front and center with everyone else supporting him)?

I smell the stench of jealousy...and maybe even hypocrisy in some of these posts....but I could be wrong. Would someone care to explain it to me?
First of all, no, I was not surprised about Lance Bass.

Secondly, I'm going to agree and say it's a jealousy thing.

They didn't do anything wrong. They didn't *need* to do another X-Men movie. But they obviously wanted to come back, and are in a position to have more of a say about their characters this time. They weren't on a mission to undermine everyone else.

I thought it was very telling that the entire main cast came back for X3, when none of them were obligated to do. I've read it took 2 long phone conversations with Brett Ratner to convince Patrick Stewart that the series was still in good hands. None of these people looked bitter at the Cannes premiere, nor have I read anything but kind words in interviews with James Marsden regarding Cyclops' fate.

I'll never understand the Halle hate. Her ex-husband played for the Yankees, and I remember sitting in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium hearing horribly offensive things about her shouted whenever he was at bat. I have no idea why so many people think she offended them personally, because the same thing seems to go on with the X-Men movies.

What did she do? She wanted a bigger role--she barely did anything in the first two movies. She's won an Oscar, she's earned the right to ask for one. Good for her.

As far as Hugh...in the latest issue of Premiere, he called Wolverine "a gift of a character." He had the most prominent role from the first movie on (yes, more prominent than Cyclops), and movie audiences connected with him. I saw him signing autographs outside his Broadway show, and these guys were shouting "WOLVERINE!!!" from a construction railing across the street.

He cheered right back--which was impressive, since most Bway actors get a little cranky when things like that happen.

But god forbid you actually admit to liking these characters. Suddenly you're a "loyalist" with no clue, who doesn't care about the frustration of fans of the other characters, and who's arguments hold no merit, due our supposed "blind loyalty" to these characters.

I really have to agree that it's jealousy. And it's ridiculous.

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

that their jealous about their favorite characters not getting a great amount of screen time or not making it to the film at all. lets also remember the reasons why some did not have good screentime:

anna paquin was already commited to another project hence her little screentime

i really dont care what u all say, marsden's filming of superman returns did play one half of the fact that he didnt get good screen time and was killed off.

rebecca was busy with that pepper show.

Aso what you need to realize is these movies have always been made to be "high concept" films. This means that the plot would be easy to follow and that some characters would be favorited then others for publicity. In order to sell a movie, You're obviously going to put the biggest names front and center to draw a bigger audience. Fox, or any big movie company for that matter, really focus on the regular audiences rather than the x-fans. And also just because YOUR favorite character didnt get the amount of screen time you wanted, doesnt mean you immediatly put the blame on halle and hugh, Although i admit Wolverine is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy overrated in these movies.

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Strikez!
Could it be that people are bent out of shape because their personal favorite characters were not treated the way they preferred?
In my humble opinion, thats basically how I see it when a person complains.Everybody has a favorite X-Men and wants them to shine.They are angered by Halle & Hugh since they do get a lot of screen-time where-as their personal favorite could be having that time.But some/a big chunk of the blame should been toward FOX.They call the shots and there's not much people can do.And what they called for was Halle & Hugh as the leads.

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: HalleHughHate: What's REALLY Going On Here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanGrey12
Overall, I think people need to realize this was an ensemble cast. Some characters will get more attention than others. I love or love to hate all of the characters for some reason or another. Naturally, I think some characters got more time than others and some like Scott deserved something more. I disagree in that I think Storm had a substantial part in X3 though not as predominant as Jean. My absolute favorite is Jean (with Scott and Logan tied for second) and I did enjoy getting to see her have a big role in the beginning of X3. I do agree though. I am sick of all of these ________ got too much screen time posts. Give it a rest people.

I have to agree with your assessments.

When you compare the two characters, Jean really has always been the frontwoman storywise in this franchise--especially in X2 and X3. In fact, the latter film revolved completely around her actions. In my estimation Jean played second fiddle to Storm in the marketing materials for this franchise only--not the films' plots.

Yet, despite the fact that Jean had such quality screentime and development no one cries bloody war that she's sucking screentime off of other characters. But when you sit down and think about it--she definitely was, just as much--if not more so--than Storm. Jean had two STORYLINES devoted to her. Ditto for Magneto. He too ate up time that could've been spent on Rogue, Bobby, etc. And yet, I'm not seeing the same complaining pattern. What's the difference??

And so I find this differentiation very intriguing.


Funny....As soon as Storm is finally doing more on the level of her peers, suddenly she's Public Enemy #2.

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

She needed to do more, right, but not be the freakin' headmaster of the school when it was supposed to go to Scott. And it was lead up for him to become the headmaster.

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

You had to go there, didn't you? You're insane if you think the haters will take you head on. They'll b*tch elsewhere or try and make some borderline pious arguement about the misuse/underdevelopment of _______ because Halle's a tramp who wanted a bigger paycheck and Wolverine was written in Cyclops' role (I agree on this latter part, but I understand why it was done). But hey, you picked this topic. Have fun!

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:14 PM   #13
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WorthyStevens4
She needed to do more, right, but not be the freakin' headmaster of the school when it was supposed to go to Scott. And it was lead up for him to become the headmaster.
He was having a mental breakdown over Jean (yeah, good choice for school leader) and then he was, y'know, dead. Who would you like to see get headmaster instead? Wolverine?

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherwitch
He was having a mental breakdown over Jean (yeah, good choice for school leader) and then he was, y'know, dead. Who would you like to see get headmaster instead? Wolverine?
Exactly! It was even discussed in the movie between the Professor and Storm ("Scott is a changed man..."). Clearly the intention was for Scott to take over, but the situation had changed.

It wasn't like Storm was demanding to take over. It's not like there was a scene where she cleared out Scott's room and tossed it all in the trash.

She was the one who finally said the school would stay open. I loved that scene. She was the one who told Logan to get over himself and not go after Jean--and was in line with the previous movies, she gave him a similar speech in X1 when he tried to take off after Rogue alone.

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WorthyStevens4
She needed to do more, right, but not be the freakin' headmaster of the school when it was supposed to go to Scott. And it was lead up for him to become the headmaster.

So she got a title change. What else did she get Worthy? Seriously man, did Storm really get to "do more"?

Did she get a romantic plot? No.

Was she part of the main conflict a la Jean? No.

Did she truly *lead* the team into battle as Scott would have? No.


She was a HINO (Headmistress In Name Only)!

Yeah, she said the school could stay open. She hugged some kids. But this film really didn't investigate that new responsibility for her. If anything, her ownership role was totally undermined the moment we saw her getting her butt lectured to along with her students by Wolverine in the hangar. If Scott and Charles wasn't available, Storm should've been giving that speech--not the Newcommer.

So, again...on a scale of 1 to 10 just how valuable was the "freakin' Headmaster" role at the end of the day? Hmmm?

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:33 PM   #16
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherwitch
You had to go there, didn't you? You're insane if you think the haters will take you head on. They'll b*tch elsewhere or try and make some borderline pious arguement about the misuse/underdevelopment of _______ because Halle's a tramp who wanted a bigger paycheck and Wolverine was written in Cyclops' role (I agree on this latter part, but I understand why it was done). But hey, you picked this topic. Have fun!

Heh... Well, you know I'm always one to take the bull by the damn horns.

I read that Halle got an estimated $12 million for X2. But despite her salary and supporting role, Scott was still AWOL for 99.9% in that film. In X3 she finally was leading but...he was still missing.

Do you see a theme here? Yet, now Halle has to go? After just one film of being a top tier player? Well, what about Patrick, Ian, and Famke then? If we go by that reasoning, surely they should've been gone long before X3, no?

Again, there's a selective prejudice against certain characters on this forum--and some of it seems unfounded. I'm just calling it out.

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:47 PM   #17
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He was having a mental breakdown over Jean (yeah, good choice for school leader) and then he was, y'know, dead. Who would you like to see get headmaster instead? Wolverine?
I take it you didn't watch X1?

Scott-::Looking down on a professor who is in a coma:: If anything happens, I'll take care of them.

They went against any and all forms of continuity in terms of the X-Men movies in general. NOW to be fair, if Scott died in an heroic fashion that was true to his character, then I don't think anyone would've had any problem with the way he was presented.

I wouldn't have minded if he died, just as long as if it was heroic and made sense to the overall concept. Nothing made sense in this movie, nothing clicked, nothing made an impact, and everything was just bunch of mindless action pieces that didn't serve the plot at all(IMO).

I don't hate Hugh and I don't hate Halle. Hugh seems like an overall down to earth man and I could never hate him. Halle, while she may be a bit of a drama queen, she isn't the worst person in the world but I also know why she did her fair share of whining and complaining. I bet if CINO was a roaring success she wouldn't have cared if Storm was recasted or not.

Funny how all of a sudden she "cares" about the character after CINO is flopped and destroyed by fans, critics, and non-fans.

Xavier would've never given up on Scott the way he did. A true Xavier would've said, "Scott's a changed man. He took Jean's death so hard, but I know that he'll keep his promise to me if anything happens."

No matter what any X3INO loyalists say, their arguments are largely discredited and destroyed when they're placed against actual facts.

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

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No matter what any X3INO loyalists say, their arguments are largely discredited and destroyed when they're placed against actual facts.
And what about the arguments I presented above? Placed against actual facts are they not? While I appreciate your comment, it doesn't address the question at hand as stipulated in this thread. Are some fans throwing common sense and logic out the window in favor of favoritism?

I'd welcome any input or lines of reasoning that might "discredit" my initial post.

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

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Originally Posted by LastSunrise1981
No matter what any X3INO loyalists say, their arguments are largely discredited and destroyed when they're placed against actual facts.
And how exactly does one "discredit and destroy" another's opinion??

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Old 08-16-2006, 09:10 PM   #20
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

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I take it you didn't watch X1?

Scott-::Looking down on a professor who is in a coma:: If anything happens, I'll take care of them.

They went against any and all forms of continuity in terms of the X-Men movies in general. NOW to be fair, if Scott died in an heroic fashion that was true to his character, then I don't think anyone would've had any problem with the way he was presented.

I wouldn't have minded if he died, just as long as if it was heroic and made sense to the overall concept. Nothing made sense in this movie, nothing clicked, nothing made an impact, and everything was just bunch of mindless action pieces that didn't serve the plot at all(IMO).

I don't hate Hugh and I don't hate Halle. Hugh seems like an overall down to earth man and I could never hate him. Halle, while she may be a bit of a drama queen, she isn't the worst person in the world but I also know why she did her fair share of whining and complaining. I bet if CINO was a roaring success she wouldn't have cared if Storm was recasted or not.

Funny how all of a sudden she "cares" about the character after CINO is flopped and destroyed by fans, critics, and non-fans.

Xavier would've never given up on Scott the way he did. A true Xavier would've said, "Scott's a changed man. He took Jean's death so hard, but I know that he'll keep his promise to me if anything happens."

No matter what any X3INO loyalists say, their arguments are largely discredited and destroyed when they're placed against actual facts.
**glances at signature** Yeah. That was a cute little rant though.

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Old 08-16-2006, 09:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

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And how exactly does one "discredit and destroy" another's opinion??
I know, right? It's comical. It's OPINION. I mean really. The fact of the matter is that a majority of moviegoers don't give a rats ass about the fanboy details that has everyone on these boards panties in a bunch.

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Old 08-16-2006, 09:13 PM   #22
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**glances at signature** Yeah. That was a cute little rant though.
And it proves that you had nothing intelligent nor formative to add, especially since you added nothing and couldn't refute any of my points.

Thanks for proving that you can't handle facts.

It's not an opinion when you try to pass off your opinion as a fact. Nice try though Weatherwitch and Danoyse. What I have presented were comic book history facts, animated series facts, and facts based from those who actually worked on the comics and have been close to the concept from the beginning.

All the supporters have provided are excuses, lies, and typical reactions when they get their feelings hurt because some poster points out the truth.

As I said, for me there were and are a number of things that rubbed me the wrong way in X3. It wasn't just Scott's role, it was how Juggernaut was done, it was how Rogue was done, it was how Fox became politically motivated and revenge filled just because Singer left to do Superman Returns.

Hacks like Ratner, Penn, Kinberg, and Rothman are what ruined X3 for me as a fan and as a film fan.


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Old 08-16-2006, 09:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

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And how exactly does one "discredit and destroy" another's opinion??
Actually I do it all the time.

J/K

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Old 08-16-2006, 09:15 PM   #24
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

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And it proves that you had nothing intelligent nor formative to add, especially since you added nothing and couldn't refute any of my points.

Thanks for proving that you can't handle facts.
Yes, that is exactly the case. I can't debate or handle facts. Good job callin' me out. What were your points again? Previous movies? Where actor schedules and studio politics could never altar the course of movie events? Riiiight. Ok.

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Old 08-16-2006, 09:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

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Actually I do it all the time.

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