X3 vs Superman/Warner vs Fox...Who won? (Article)

[Mike059jig]

Superman....Quality film Majority of reviews are clearly better X3
Box office for an anticipated # 3 film clearly wins the money and more than SR...50/50 both ways...Both were dissapointing but as an X-man fan Sr is a rewatchable film

[borinquenknight]

Originally Posted by lordofthenerds

I thought that SR was a better movie, but yeah X3 won at the box office.

I agree. I may have held X3 to a higher standard. But it was the standard set by its prequels.

[Kurosawa]

X3 won at the box office, of course, which just proves that most people are idiots.

DC basically pushing the idea in their comics for the last 20 years that Superman is a country bumpkin boyscout loser and that Batman is the real badass of the DCU didn't help either.

Who lost? X-Men fans who understand the series, mostly. Instead of the two epic X-Men movies we would have gotten, we got one steaming pile of ****, much worse than Batman and Robin or Elektra.

[Retroman]

I could be wrong but i could have sworn someone started a thread on this and it got closed a few days ago for unexplained reasons.

[Neto Magnus]

mods just don't like me

[Electrix]

Originally Posted by Kurosawa

Who lost? X-Men fans who understand the series, mostly. Instead of the two epic X-Men movies we would have gotten, we got one steaming pile of ****, much worse than Batman and Robin or Elektra.

In your opinion of course.

[danoyse]

Originally Posted by Retroman

I could be wrong but i could have sworn someone started a thread on this and it got closed a few days ago for unexplained reasons.

I think they may have seen the thread title the first time it was posted and mistakenly thought it was an X3 vs. Superman Returns thread and didn't realize an actual article was posted.

[SpiderMarc]

Originally Posted by lordofthenerds

I thought that SR was a better movie, but yeah X3 won at the box office.

That sums it up for me. I thought X3 stunk (thanks Fox and Ratner), but it made a ton of $$ because it was the second sequel...

Comparing apples to oranges with Returns/X3...

[CapBeerCino]

Originally Posted by SpiderMarc

Comparing apples to oranges with Returns/X3...

If those are rotten apples that you over paid for, and the oranges were directed by Brian Singer, then yeah.

[Kurosawa]

Originally Posted by Electrix

In your opinion of course.

I guess.

[X-Maniac]

It's worth considering that this summer's runaway blockbuster smash Pirates had a lower score on Rotten Tomatoes than X3. Which should tell you something about the validity of critical ratings in relation to mainstream success. Critics want everything to be some 'worthy' piece like Schindler's List; so obsessed with artistic merit that they can often forget entertainment value...

[borinquenknight]

Originally Posted by Kurosawa

I guess.

Kurosawa,
I agree with your eralier statement. There was so much potential in this series all anyone should've had to do was sit down at the cockpit and set it to autopilot. But alas, this was not the case. Damn you Fox......damn you and your bushy tail!

[ntcrawler]

except POTC wasn't supposed to be good. It was MEANT to be fun, but mindless, crazy entertainment. It delivered perfectly on that concept, and hence is making money. X-Men on the other hand promised to be on a level of intelligence and sophistication slightly higher than that.

[borinquenknight]

Originally Posted by ntcrawler

except POTC wasn't supposed to be good. It was MEANT to be fun, but mindless, crazy entertainment. It delivered perfectly on that concept, and hence is making money. X-Men on the other hand promised to be on a level of intelligence and sophistication slightly higher than that.

I think they also promised that if you follow the rainbow you'll likely find the leprechaun's pot o'gold! I'm still following.....

[Retroman]

Originally Posted by Neto Magnus

mods just don't like me

Mods are selfish beings who fly around in little red capes and don't share their power with mankind.

Originally Posted by danoyse

I think they may have seen the thread title the first time it was posted and mistakenly thought it was an X3 vs. Superman Returns thread and didn't realize an actual article was posted.

Strange. Before locking the thread i'd think they'd check whats been discussed.Oh well.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by ntcrawler

except POTC wasn't supposed to be good. It was MEANT to be fun, but mindless, crazy entertainment. It delivered perfectly on that concept, and hence is making money. X-Men on the other hand promised to be on a level of intelligence and sophistication slightly higher than that.

So the makers of POTC didn't intend it to be good???? Are you serious?

And so 'mindless crazy entertainment' is what the audience wants, what moviemakers should aim for?

There is no doubt that X3 was more sophisticated than POTC, although not as moody or subtle as some wanted.

[ntcrawler]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

So the makers of POTC didn't intend it to be good???? Are you serious?

Yes, by "good" I meant it wasn't meant to be a moving, epic, or award-winning film.

And so 'mindless crazy entertainment' is what the audience wants, what moviemakers should aim for?

That's exactly the formula that they seem to be using for a summer blockbuster. And that's exactly what moviemakers are aiming for these days. It certainly works. They rack in the profits, don't they? Audience wants stunts and explosions and lots of special effects, and they get it, do they not?

There is no doubt that X3 was more sophisticated than POTC, although not as moody or subtle as some wanted.

True, but it also lacked some of the depth that I thought the first two had.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by ntcrawler

Yes, by "good" I meant it wasn't meant to be a moving, epic, or award-winning film.


That's exactly the formula that they seem to be using for a summer blockbuster. And that's exactly what moviemakers are aiming for these days. It certainly works. They rack in the profits, don't they? Audience wants stunts and explosions and lots of special effects, and they get it, do they not?



True, but it also lacked some of the depth that I thought the first two had.

I think it may have lacked some of the depth...but it's more that the pacing took people by surprise and doesn't give people chance to absorb some stuff, and perhaps some more dialogue was needed at times. There were quieter non-action moments loaded with meaning and depth - the Xavier/Magneto/Jean flashback, Rogue's jealous glance out of the window at Bobby/Kitty...

I've felt an empathy with the X-Men for about 30 years. I'm always aware of the textures, whether obvious or not. For anyone in a minority, they represent that fight for acceptance...and some fantasy fulfilment in that they are victims of discrimination but have the ability to fight back...

[danoyse]

Originally Posted by ntcrawler

Yes, by "good" I meant it wasn't meant to be a moving, epic, or award-winning film.

Well, considering Johnny Depp received an Oscar nomination for the first film, they wanted to deliver a sequel that was at least on par with that, don't you think?

Considering Disney spent a fortune on not one sequel, but two...plus re-signing their cast, promising Orlando and Keira more significant roles (sound familiar?), and even went so far as to send an apology letter to Johnny Depp for expressing doubt over his performance in the first movie, actually renovate the theme park ride it was based on to coincide with the movie's release, they expected this movie to fire on all cylinders and be a bloody good film.

When Disney doesn't want an epic film, they remake "The Shaggy Dog", when they want their big franchise to blow everyone away, they make a "Pirates" sequel.

That's exactly the formula that they seem to be using for a summer blockbuster. And that's exactly what moviemakers are aiming for these days. It certainly works. They rack in the profits, don't they? Audience wants stunts and explosions and lots of special effects, and they get it, do they not?

These days? It's what they're always aiming for in the summer.

[Lightning Strykez!]

Originally Posted by Neto Magnus

mods just don't like me

Pish posh. I like you.

Now...whut you talkin' 'bout Willis?

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by Kurosawa

I guess.

There's not "I guess" about it. It is your opinion. Because despite what you might want to believe, not everyone felt this movie was as bad as you're exaggerating it out to be. Worse than Elektra or Batman & Robin? I laugh at that.

But "I guess" that's just my opinion...

[Downhere]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

There's not "I guess" about it. It is your opinion. Because despite what you might want to believe, not everyone felt this movie was as bad as you're exaggerating it out to be. Worse than Elektra or Batman & Robin? I laugh at that.

But "I guess" that's just my opinion...

So true, I don't understand those who say X3 was worse than Elektra or Batman and Robin. While X3 is not the best film in the world it far exceeds those two films. Sure there are some things that weren't up to fanboy expectations but it was an enjoyable film but could have been better.

[CapBeerCino]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

It's worth considering that this summer's runaway blockbuster smash Pirates had a lower score on Rotten Tomatoes than X3. Which should tell you something about the validity of critical ratings in relation to mainstream success. Critics want everything to be some 'worthy' piece like Schindler's List; so obsessed with artistic merit that they can often forget entertainment value...

Lets see - x-men has 40 years of comics behind it while PotC's source material is a disneyland ride. See the difference?

When people go to PotC they want to see things go boom! and Johny Depp. That given, pepopl are happy.

When people go to TLS they go with a knowledge and an attachment to the stories and characters.

Both are badly writen imo, but I can see how viewers can enjoy PotC (it was rated higher than TLS on imdb by the users) and I can see why a lot of fans don't like TLS.

Originally Posted by Retroman

Mods are selfish beings who fly around in little red capes and don't share their power with mankind.

I take it SR finaly opened in the Netherlands...

[ntcrawler]

Originally Posted by CapBeerCino

Lets see - x-men has 40 years of comics behind it while PotC's source material is a disneyland ride. See the difference?

When people go to PotC they want to see things go boom! and Johny Depp. That given, pepopl are happy.

Interesting point that writers can flesh out a more engaging and better developed story from what was essentially an amusement park ride than they can from 40 years of character drama and sci fi thrillers, especially when the latter have all this material at their disposal not to mention an established "think tank" of authors at marvel to consult with.

When people go to TLS they go with a knowledge and an attachment to the stories and characters.

Exactly. Even casual fans or first-time viewers would have at least some idea of what to expect or who the characters are, even from just a cursory glance on the web and reading a little of the backgrounds.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by ntcrawler

Interesting point that writers can flesh out a more engaging and better developed story from what was essentially an amusement park ride than they can from 40 years of character drama and sci fi thrillers, especially when the latter have all this material at their disposal not to mention an established "think tank" of authors at marvel to consult with.

Oh come now ntcrawler. POTC was not 'more engaging and better developed'; it was escapist summer fun. And the person posting the point meant Pirates was less likely to upset people because there is no fanbase clinging to original source material which has been adapted/changed. Pirates isn't based on any comics or any other medium; it's an original movie inspired by a fairground ride.

When drawing from 40 years of comics, with several different continuities and versions of characters, there are bound to be decisions that upset fans because elements are adapted, compressed, omitted, expanded... There is no single version of events, no one version of any character.