am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

[Damiean Dark]

Forget this extensive study rubbish all ledger will do is browse a few comics its not a rocket science. And all the studying in the world cant turn a good actor into a great one they either have the magic or they dont and ledger imo dont.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by kakarot069

That's why I'm hoping Ledger does a lot of extensive study on the Joker before he starts.

Read my sig.

[Visionary]

Regardless, Ledger's Joker is going to be measured and compared to Nicholson's Joker until the end of days.

[batbat_29640]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Keyser Sushi

I made an exception for Hush as well. I don't worship Jeph Loeb (I think he's reasonably good, but not the best), however I do love Jim Lee's art, and since Jeph Loeb was writing the story, that means, by default, that Jim Lee was going to get to draw EVERY CHARACTER in the DC Universe, so I was interested if only for that.



While I have decided not to speak ill of Burton's stuff because I'm tired of Burton fans bashing Nolan, and I think we ought to try and bridge some gaps here, it is certainly undeniable that Burton's Batman movies were, well, Burton's Batman movies. Burton has a unique style and he put that stamp all over Batman's world. You'd expect nothing less of Burton. And if you're a Burton fan then that's not a bad thing, and if you don't like Burton then it probably is a bad thing.

S'all I'm sayin, man. I was fortunate enough to grow as a Comic Book Batman fan before that movie came out. I'm not saying that I don`'t like Burton. On the contrary. I've watched and have thoroughly enjoyed all of Burton's movies. Made a point to watch them because they were Burton movies. But it was his direction with the character that lead to Batman Forever and Batman and Robin.

For me, it's not my favorite interpretation, but it's as valid as any other. I certainly do prefer Nolan's film, because it comes closer to the tone of the Batman stories that I love. And honestly, I think Nolan has a better handle on the character.

Whole heartedly agree with you here as well. The stories that I love and that I feel Begins came closer to were the stories that were around before, during and soon after the '89 movie. These stories did indeed boost Batman's popularity in comics and you and I are proof of that. These stories finally established a persona to the character that artists and writers had been working very hard to obtain for years.

I think the dealbreaker is probably Returns, for most of us. I think the story of '89 makes pretty good sense, but Returns is pretty silly, plot-wise. I have never gotten over Penguin getting the blueprints for the Batmobile. I don't know how that would even be possible. It just felt cheap and easy. And Penguin was so... unlike the Penguin from the comics, too, it was a little distressing. When I was 12 I thought '89 seemed pretty realistic, so I was very surprised by Returns. I've read Sam Hamm's original script for Returns, and it's quite a bit better. Oddly it includes some things that the Batchlers recycled into Batman Forever, and some things that seem to have made their was into TAS as well.

Okay I'm just wierd like this but I actually liked Returns. I was very dissapointed in the Penguin's lack of vocabulary, which in the comics is as trademark to the penguin as his umbrella and monicle. But I liked the overall dark moodiness to the film. That and I always liked Batman stories where it's snowing. Yeah wierd. Though I won't deny Returns had a measure of cheeze that we don't find in the '89 movie. And Oh God the puns that overpowered Returns in general. I loved Returns for Catwoman. For the chemistry with Batman and Catwoman. Hale Berre's movie showed me I made the wiser decision on that one. Still haven't seen that Catwoman movie.

[Miranda Fox]

Okay I'm just wierd like this but I actually liked Returns. I was very dissapointed in the Penguin's lack of vocabulary, which in the comics is as trademark to the penguin as his umbrella and monicle. But I liked the overall dark moodiness to the film. That and I always liked Batman stories where it's snowing. Yeah wierd. Though I won't deny Returns had a measure of cheeze that we don't find in the '89 movie. And Oh God the puns that overpowered Returns in general. I loved Returns for Catwoman. For the chemistry with Batman and Catwoman. Hale Berre's movie showed me I made the wiser decision on that one. Still haven't seen that Catwoman movie.

FWIW, I actually like Returns a lot more than B89. I liked that the film actually dealt with duality and through that developed Bruce as a person. It has a lot of faults but overall I actually really enjoy it.

Begins FTW though.

[Crooklyn]

Originally Posted by Miranda Fox

FWIW, I actually like Returns a lot more than B89. I liked that the film actually dealt with duality and through that developed Bruce as a person. It has a lot of faults but overall I actually really enjoy it.

Begins FTW though.

I think this is the first time I've agreed with every single word you've said in a post.

To this day, the Batman/Catwoman relationship is the best on-screen adaptation of any comic book couple imo. Shame no one else has really stepped up to the plate.

[Miranda Fox]

Originally Posted by Crooklyn

I think this is the first time I've agreed with every single word you've said in a post.

To this day, the Batman/Catwoman relationship is the best on-screen adaptation of any comic book couple imo. Shame no one else has really stepped up to the plate.

And in turn, I completely agree on that. The scene at the masked ball is terrific. Nothing has ever come close as far as comic book love interests go.

[Crooklyn]

"Does this mean we have to fight?"

Pheiffer was damn good. The character was butchered as far as origins go, but after that....Catwoman was straight from the comics as I had seen her. If there ever is another Selina Kyle, they've got their work cut out from them. I'd say Pheiffer pulled off her comic book counterpart better than even Keaton. She was just absolutely terrific.

[Miranda Fox]

Originally Posted by Crooklyn

"Does this mean we have to fight?"

Pheiffer was damn good. The character was butchered as far as origins go, but after that....Catwoman was straight from the comics as I had seen her. If there ever is another Selina Kyle, they've got their work cut out from them. I'd say Pheiffer pulled off her comic book counterpart better than even Keaton. She was just absolutely terrific.

Word.

[Agentsands77]

Originally Posted by Crooklyn

"Does this mean we have to fight?"

Pheiffer was damn good.

Pfeifer was fantastic. The best thing about the Burton Batman films, IMO, and by far the most successful love interest in a comic book film.

The character was butchered as far as origins go, but after that....Catwoman was straight from the comics as I had seen her.

You think so? Her personality, for the most part, yes, but she also had a much more schizophrenic edge than anything the comics had given us (not necessarily a bad thing - it gave the character a very interesting aspect, and made her the perfect love interest for Keaton's Batman/Wayne).

If there ever is another Selina Kyle, they've got their work cut out from them.

Oh, you bet. I'm all up for another Selina Kyle (in the Loeb mold), but I can't imagine whoever is cast ever really beating Pfeifer's Catwoman. She was just that good.

[Crooklyn]

Originally Posted by Agentsands77

You think so? Her personality, for the most part, yes, but she also had a much more schizophrenic edge than anything the comics had given us (not necessarily a bad thing - it gave the character a very interesting aspect, and made her the perfect love interest for Keaton's Batman/Wayne).

I may have to watch the film again, it's been a while, but I always perceived Selina as pretty damn troubled. I'm sure Pheiffer channeled a more aggressive persona, but all in all I think Catwoman was translated well.

Catwoman: Oh... I would love to live with you in your castle forever... like in a fairy tale...
[Batman caresses the back of her head]
Catwoman: [she claws Batman on the cheek] But I just couldn't live with myself, so don't pretend this is a happy ending!

That about sums up the character for me.

[Agentsands77]

Originally Posted by Crooklyn

I may have to watch the film again, it's been a while, but I always perceived Selina as pretty damn troubled.

In the comics? Really? She seems fairly sane to me (especially the Loeb version, which seems to have become the dominant one in recent years).

I'm sure Pheiffer channeled a more aggressive persona, but all in all I think Catwoman was translated well.

I didn't mean more aggressive, just that her Catwoman is positively psychotic.

[Keyser Sushi]

Originally Posted by Miranda Fox

I'm fairly certain that's what it said. I remember thinking 'but that's not the same as Mister J. not appearing.' Probably should re-check just to be sure...

Oh good, so I'm not crazy? Or... well, maybe I'm crazy, but not on that issue.

THANK YOU! And I totally agree.

[Keyser Sushi]

[quote=batbat_29640;10991131]

S'all I'm sayin, man. I was fortunate enough to grow as a Comic Book Batman fan before that movie came out. I'm not saying that I don`'t like Burton. On the contrary. I've watched and have thoroughly enjoyed all of Burton's movies. Made a point to watch them because they were Burton movies. But it was his direction with the character that lead to Batman Forever and Batman and Robin.

I'm not a huge Burton fan but I don't have a problem with him. And Batman '89 was a seminal part of my teenage years. But you're right that his direction led to Forever and B&R. I also believe that his approach to Gotham (I loved Anton Furst's sets) opened the door for Schumacher's ridiculous Gotham.

Whole heartedly agree with you here as well. The stories that I love and that I feel Begins came closer to were the stories that were around before, during and soon after the '89 movie. These stories did indeed boost Batman's popularity in comics and you and I are proof of that. These stories finally established a persona to the character that artists and writers had been working very hard to obtain for years.

Oh yeah. I read a few Batman comics in the early- to mid-eighties, but it wasn't until after Batman '89 that I became a full-on collector. And yes, those stories around that time ares one that I remember fondly. A Lonely Place of Dying - the Tim Drake introduction story? Greatness. Dark Knight / Dark City? Greatness. The NKVDemon? Fun. That Scarecrow storyline leading up to Tim getting the new Robin suit? Hell yes!

Okay I'm just wierd like this but I actually liked Returns. I was very dissapointed in the Penguin's lack of vocabulary, which in the comics is as trademark to the penguin as his umbrella and monicle. But I liked the overall dark moodiness to the film. That and I always liked Batman stories where it's snowing. Yeah wierd. Though I won't deny Returns had a measure of cheeze that we don't find in the '89 movie. And Oh God the puns that overpowered Returns in general. I loved Returns for Catwoman. For the chemistry with Batman and Catwoman. Hale Berre's movie showed me I made the wiser decision on that one. Still haven't seen that Catwoman movie.

I don't hate Returns -- in fact I liked it more than any of my friends did when it came out. But I find it hard to watch now. The only thing I do like about it is the Bruce and Selena stuff, as everybody else says too. LOL. It's undeniable that the Keaton / Pfieffer chemistry was great, and she was a great Catwoman.

But I still think somebody owes me an explanation on those blueprints. I'm not an idiot, why did they want to treat me like one?

[Keyser Sushi]

Originally Posted by Miranda Fox

FWIW, I actually like Returns a lot more than B89.

I liked that the film actually dealt with duality and through that developed Bruce as a person.

Okay, you have a point.

It has a lot of faults but overall I actually really enjoy it.

At least you agree it has faults. If you didn't... well, I'd like you anyway, but really. We'd have to talk.

Begins FTW though.

Word.

[batbat_29640]

Miranda and Crooklyn you just said everythig i wanted to . So yeah to your 'word' I give my word. I loved every scene with Batman and Catwoman in Returns ! That's why I refuse to see that other Catwoman movie.
When Ashley Judd was attached I might have given it my attention. When Judd was tossed for Berry I turned a cheek because I hated what she did to Storm in the second X-Men movie. Not to mention her Catwoman outfit was appalling.
With that said I hope they decide to bring in Selina with this new franchise. I believe that in every Batman medium outside of comics that the whole Batman Catwoman story needs to be established. I for one feel that it is just as important to the Batman mythos as the Joker and TwoFace.

[batbat_29640]

But I still think somebody owes me an explanation on those blueprints. I'm not an idiot, why did they want to treat me like one?

[/QUOTE]
LOL! Yeah man! I had the same question when I first saw the movie. I was like "What . . . we get to see em rig the Batmobile but not sneek into the Batcave?" But of course I always believed that with the way Penguin was portrayed as a sewer dweller that he and his Circus gang kept tabs on Batman's appearances in Gotham. One of the circus members could have drawn those blueprints. But I'm right there with you man. If that were the case they could have explained that in the movie. Would have been nothing to have a circus henchman sitting at a drafting table when Max Shreck had his first visit to the 'Underground Circus'. S'like it would have been nothing for Prof. Lupin to had a little bit of diologue with Harry Potter dealing with the Murauder's Map and the white stag pertronus.

[Myrddin_Emrys]

Jacks Joker was a travesty. It was almost as bad an interpretation than Keatons Batman.
These films really did suck. Nothing was correct or 'nailed' about them in any shape or form. Total bollocks.

[Super Kal]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Read my sig.

that doesn't make any sense though... I read in another interview that said he's reading Batman comics that deal with the Joker...

[El Payaso]

The thing is reading 600 comics won't give anyone instict or talent.

[Nepenthes]

he doesn't need to read comics, and in my opinion he should avoid most of them.

[Myrddin_Emrys=quote]Nothing was correct or 'nailed' about them in any shape or form.[/quote]

it's a bad habit to start exaggerating

[Super Kal]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

The thing is reading 600 comics won't give anyone instict or talent.

I realize that, but can you at least give him the benefit of the doubt?

[Miranda Fox]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

The thing is reading 600 comics won't give anyone instict or talent.

Which Heath has.

Nice to see you're being open-minded though.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Miranda Fox

Which Heath has.

Any doubt about it? I mean, anyone?

[Miranda Fox]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Any doubt about it? I mean, anyone?

Well...I'm a fan from way back so I am kind of biased. Your mileage may vary.