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View Poll Results: Wil Jason have tactile telekinesis?
Yes 5 25.00%
No 14 70.00%
Some of that TTK 1 5.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-30-2006, 01:56 PM   #101
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

Ok,this is a little far fatched,......but,......while supes was gone to Krypton searching for survivors,Brainaic and Lex schemed to take over the earth,and created the false readings from krypton togeather.It was all a setup, and controlled secretely by Brainiac.,finding the F.O.S.,the crystals,everything....Brainiac came to earth searching for a heir,he needed a human female to carry a child..Lex wants superman to think its his son,so he suggested Lois for Brainiac to use as the carrier.So Brainiac secretly kidnapped Lois and impregnated her by artificial insemination. When supes finds out the truth,it will be the ultimate pain,the worst Lex could ever hope to do to Superman..Lex would have his victory,and Brainiac would have what he wanted,a heir...Lex would also get technology from brainic,making it possible for him to form Lex-Corp...Brainiac takes Jason.He would mutate him,and give him far,far more power and intellect. jason would grow up,learning to hate Superman...He would become a despot, ruleing a planet Brainiac gave him, renaming it......Apolkolips.

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Old 10-30-2006, 02:00 PM   #102
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

Jason should be killed off by a villain.

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Old 10-30-2006, 03:32 PM   #103
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

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Originally Posted by The Iron Fist
Jason should be killed off by a villain.
I don't think the audience would enjoy taking their kids to see a film where a child is killed.

It just doesn't belong in a Superman movie.

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Old 10-30-2006, 06:45 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Jasomius
Can you tell me exactly what was so bad about Jason? From a character point of view.
My basic gripe with Jason and any other "kid" character introduced in "hero" franchises (Zorro, for example) is that it unnecessarily complicates their universe and detracts from the main character. I've never liked "sidekicks" either, ala Robin. I prefer my heroes be independent and self sufficient (they are SUPER-heroes after all). The kid characters are all too often used to soften the hero's image and add levity (needed or not) to the story. All too often it just ends up being annoying and/or irritating. In
Superman's case, the "Kid" is unnecessary in every way and complicated Superman's world, IMO, in a bad way.
A) Superman has unmarried, unprotected sex with girlfriend (bad decision in Superman II, why bring it back in SR?)
B) Not only is (A) wrong in so many ways, Singer has to insist on conception taking place, resulting in a son. (ugh, shades of
SuperTyke come to mind)
C) Once Supes/Clark learns the kid is his, he cannot be any sort of father he should and needs to be. So, unless he takes off the cape and becomes a full time daddy, he has to be a deadbeat dad instead. More badness....
D) I want the focus to be on the main hero of the story,without the villains, girlfriend, and certainly not the illegitimate child diluting the mix.

Jason must die.............................

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Old 10-30-2006, 07:27 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by super-bats
actually.....from a character point of view......I actually liked Jason.

He wasn't the typical whiny, bratty, annoying male kid that is sooooo typical in hollywood movies ( think Phantom Menace or Mummy Returns ).

In fact, he was good natured, docile, shy, sickly..........but with tremendous power and potential inside.

I think the main problem that some people, like myself, have is HOW Jason was brought about. IOW, the circumstances surrounding his birth and the implications it has about Superman's conduct and behavior.

Superman had the balls ( no pun intended ) to sleep with Lois and get her pregnant. But, he didn't have the balls to stick around and support his woman. He left Lois ( and the world and his mom and his duties ) for 5+ years, without saying a word.

Consequently, Lois was essentially left to raise THEIR kid by herself, as a single mom. Fortunately, she met Richard, who helped her raise Jason and is now regarded by Jason as DAD.

And, there's another problem......Superman, above all else, should know what it feels like to never know your biological parents. And, from being raised by a loving mom and dad ( Kents ), Superman should also have a strong sense of the value of FAMILY, especially a strong FATHER figure. Indeed, that is the central premise of Smallville.

But now, when it comes to his own kid, Superman has been ABSENT in the first 5 years of his kid's life, and those are very formative years. Superman has not been burdened with the responsibility of raising his own son. Superman has not been around to watch his son grow up. All of that has been RICHARD's job ( at least that's what the movie implies ).

So, for me, it's not really with Jason himself that I have an issue. It is the way he was born and how that reflects ( badly, imo ) on Superman.....
Well said!

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Old 10-30-2006, 07:33 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by AirKnight82
Dude Superman was away for 5 years looking for some sign of others like him... Plus I bet if he had known he would of stayed and clark would of told her the truth of who he was.
I think the thing is that SUperman should have explained to Lois why he was leaving and what his intentions were. He just slept with her and did not use any contraceptive, then almost immediately leaves for 5 years. (It's unclear how the amnesia kiss plays into Singer's movie). If he explains himself, the whole situation ahs a different and better outcome. I still wouldn't be thrilled, but in the movie by leaving and not explaining to Lois he emotinally as well as physically abandons her.

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I like Jason in the Movie but it just doesn't fit - It is supposed to be Lois and Superman who get together have a child ect ect.

imo
That would certainly have been more acceptable. If you want SUperman to become a dad, why not have them get married and then bring the kid along.

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Old 10-30-2006, 07:36 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Jasomius
I don't think the audience would enjoy taking their kids to see a film where a child is killed.

It just doesn't belong in a Superman movie.
I don't think SUperman fathering an illegitimate child is a movie you should take your kids to either, but that's what we got in SR.

And you're right, it doesn't belong in a SUperman movie, and neither does an illegitimate child for Superman, but that's what we got in SR.

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Old 10-30-2006, 07:40 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Thot
My basic gripe with Jason and any other "kid" character introduced in "hero" franchises (Zorro, for example) is that it unnecessarily complicates their universe and detracts from the main character. I've never liked "sidekicks" either, ala Robin. I prefer my heroes be independent and self sufficient (they are SUPER-heroes after all). The kid characters are all too often used to soften the hero's image and add levity (needed or not) to the story. All too often it just ends up being annoying and/or irritating. In
Superman's case, the "Kid" is unnecessary in every way and complicated Superman's world, IMO, in a bad way.
A) Superman has unmarried, unprotected sex with girlfriend (bad decision in Superman II, why bring it back in SR?)
B) Not only is (A) wrong in so many ways, Singer has to insist on conception taking place, resulting in a son. (ugh, shades of
SuperTyke come to mind)
C) Once Supes/Clark learns the kid is his, he cannot be any sort of father he should and needs to be. So, unless he takes off the cape and becomes a full time daddy, he has to be a deadbeat dad instead. More badness....
D) I want the focus to be on the main hero of the story,without the villains, girlfriend, and certainly not the illegitimate child diluting the mix.

Jason must die.............................
Excellent points on A, B, C and D. I couldn't agree more. Killing Jason is not the right answer though it may certainly feel good.

The best way to get rid of him is either the BRainac or Myxzptlk ideas that have been tossed around. Those are ideas that would really make for an interesting moive.

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Old 10-30-2006, 08:29 PM   #109
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

come to think of it.........Supes leaving suddenly might have worked better, had it been for another reason.

For example, let's say Supes and Lois meet, fall in love, have sex, etc. If all goes according to plan, Supes has every intention to stay around and be with Lois, because he loves her.

But, say he receives a distress call from a distant planet ( Apokolips, perhaps ), or there's some kind of intergalactic threat to Earth, and Supes has to leave suddenly to PROTECT people ( either ppl on another planet, or ppl here on Earth ).

So, Supes didn't leave just for a selfish purpose, but left to do good and help. Then, he returns many years later, to find a World that has moved on, Lois with Richard, and a son he never knew he had.

They could even have Superman explain to the World he is leaving, why he must leave, etc. At first, the World sends Superman off with a hero's farewell ( we could see old newspaper shots ). But, as time goes on, and Superman takes much longer to return, the ppl, wait, and wait, and wait until they finally give up hope.

It could be like Ulysses in Homer's the Odyssey. Where Superman is delayed by circumstances beyond his control.

Indeed, this could be used to set up a villain, as Braniac or Darkseid was behind the attack or distress call.

This would have been alot more interesting than Supes just leaving to find Krypton, to satisfy his own curiousity.

Granted, we DIDN'T EVEN GET TO SEE HIS TRIP TO KRYPTON!!! So, they could've easily substituted that for a more meaningful absence.........

It would be like a soldier going off to fight in a war, then returning many years later to find that he has a son.........

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Old 10-30-2006, 08:47 PM   #110
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

kill the kid!!!!!

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Old 10-30-2006, 08:54 PM   #111
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

Everyone keeps complaining about them having unprotected sex.....he's a Kryptonian, she's an Earthwoman....the DNA should never have produced a kid in the first place...so there was no need for it.

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Old 10-30-2006, 09:07 PM   #112
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

Killing off Jason is far too simplistic, and far too depressing, an option.

In my opinion (this idea has been raised earlier), Jason should go into hiding with Richard for several years. Not sure about Jason taking over from Supes a few movies down the track, but giving him some minor cameos, such as Supes giving him some guidance on his powers, etc.

In regards to how it reflects on Superman himself - the sooner we realise that Superman is, at heart, human, and thus flawed, then the easier we will find it to deal with an illegitimate child. Plus, with society the way it is today, Jason is probably lucky. He has a good father and a good step-father, and a good mother, and given how shotgun weddings have gone the way of the dinosaurs, methinks its not too problematic.

Like I said, Jason should go into hiding, with periodic visits by Superman so as to learn about his powers. Richard should be his guardian, and make sure the boy grows up all well and good (etc).

And I believe someone said that a way of getting rid of Richard is to have him run the international department for DP. Methinks that him going international would be a good idea; it gives much broader scope for hiding, etc.

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Old 10-30-2006, 09:10 PM   #113
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

but doesn't this unneccesarily complicate the whole situation?

The problem with introducing a kid....is that it automatically takes the focus away from the hero, the main character....iow, Superman!!!

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Old 10-31-2006, 02:12 AM   #114
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mego joe
I don't think SUperman fathering an illegitimate child is a movie you should take your kids to either, but that's what we got in SR.

And you're right, it doesn't belong in a SUperman movie, and neither does an illegitimate child for Superman, but that's what we got in SR.
Are you comparing illegitimate children to murder?

Are you saying that a child whose parents werent married at his conception is akin to the result of a murder?

Illegitimate kids happen all the time, it's not out of the social norm now, this isn't the 1900's. You can't judge what is suitable for a Superman film, because you obviously can't judge what is suitable in real life.

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Old 11-01-2006, 08:30 PM   #115
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

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Originally Posted by Jasomius
Are you comparing illegitimate children to murder?

Are you saying that a child whose parents werent married at his conception is akin to the result of a murder?
No. But both issues are equally serious, albeit from different ends of the spectrum. However, they both touch upon how much you value children and how children are treated.
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Illegitimate kids happen all the time, it's not out of the social norm now, this isn't the 1900's. You can't judge what is suitable for a Superman film, because you obviously can't judge what is suitable in real life.
I'm saying that Superman fathering an illegitimate child is not something I would want my kids to see. In the context of the film it is irresponsible and no consequences for any of the parties are shown. It is portrayed as benignly as say eating a cheeseburger. You're not going to go into the dietary concerns of cholesterol when a character eats a cheeseburger. But, brinigng a child into this world is a lot bigger deal than eating a cheeseburger.

Just because things become the social norm does not mean they are right, the results of responsible behavior or something you would want a role model character to portray.

As far as judging what's appropriate, everone has their own personal view of morality and what is right. I'm sorry if you can't see the huge problem that the irresponsible fathering of children has brought into the world.

There are children that are conceived and born out of wedlock that whose parents end up fulfilling their responsiblities. However, the vast majority of these parents, are too young and too imature to handle such a responsibilty. COnsequently, the state and taxpayers end up picking up the slack as best they can, but there is really no substitute for being raised by two loving parents who value that child the way the child should be valued.


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Old 11-01-2006, 09:18 PM   #116
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well said, mega joe, well said.

If I had kids of my own, I certainly wouldn't take them to see SR, as I, too, feel that it sends the wrong message. The problem, for most people, they wouldn't know that beforehand, and they would probably take their kids anyways.....cuz it's SUPERMAN for crying out loud.

And, I think it's not the fact that Supes and Lois has sex out of wedlock ( and hence, had a child out of wedlock ). While that can be considered more offensive to some, what is even more offensive is that Superman didn't even STICK AROUND in the relationship to support the woman he loves and his future child.

It's like......he had his fun, slept with Lois, and then.....poof.....he disappeared.

And, as for Lois, it also sends the wrong message because she is lying to Richard ( making him think the kid is his ), and she is holding on to 2 men at the same time. She can't be honest with Richard and commit to him ( extended engagement ) because she is still in love with you know who....

But, the movie celebrates all that.......it treats all of that as ok....as casual la-dee-do.....The characters are never meant to feel the CONSEQUENCES of their actions.....There was NO SHAME OR GUILT PORTRAYED.....it just casually passes that behaviour as normal.....which, i hate to say, is reflecting more and more on our society.

I mean, if you think about it, ALL OF THE PROBLEMS IN THE MOVIE WERE CAUSED BY SUPERMAN LEAVING. The complicated love triangle with Lois and Richard.....the issue with Jason.....Lex getting out of prison....Lex invading and burglarizing the FOS......Lex creating New Krypton and endagering all the people.......ALL OF THOSE ARE SUPERMAN'S FAULT!!!! IF SUPERMAN HADN'T LEFT IN THE FIRST PLACE, NONE OF THAT STUFF WOULD'VE HAPPENED!!

The problem is.....we didn't see any hint of remorse, or guilt, or shame from Superman. There was no scene in the empty, lifeless FOS, where Superman is reflecting and realizing the gravity and irresponsiblity of his action ( leaving for Krypton ). There was no scene where Superman questions his own competence as a SUPERHERO.....having created all of this mess. There was no scene where Superman realizes that, in his quest to find his home planet ( Krypton ), he forsake and abandoned his REAL HOME......EARTH!!!IOW, there was no hint that Superman felt bad or responsible for creating all this chaos.........

Such scenes would've been very powerful and emotional ( and would've been great opportunities for the audience to connect with Routh as the new Superman ).....yet, we got none.....

This movie was supposed to be GRAND AND EPIC......it had all the potential to be..........but, for me, it was merely SHALLOW AND HOLLOW......ultimately signifying nothing.


Last edited by X Knight; 11-01-2006 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 11-01-2006, 09:58 PM   #117
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Given just how secretive Lois would have been about the incident, I doubt that Superman knew that he had impregnated Lois before leaving for Krypton. So I don't think he was irresponsible. Ignorant and foolish perhaps, but not irresponsible.

That said, I do feel you have a point that Superman's absence allowed Earth to very nearly go to hell in a fast taxi. Realising this might not have occured to Superman while he was reestablishing himself on Earth. Dealing with Luthor probably did upset him (hey - didn't he go to a bar just before he saved Lois?).

But a more overt scene would have been a very good character-building one, I do agree. And we might get one, in SR2. I'd like to see it, quite a great deal more than I'd like to see a fistfight between Superman and someone else (NB - personal preference).

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Old 11-01-2006, 11:19 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by super-bats
well said, mega joe, well said.

If I had kids of my own, I certainly wouldn't take them to see SR, as I, too, feel that it sends the wrong message. The problem, for most people, they wouldn't know that beforehand, and they would probably take their kids anyways.....cuz it's SUPERMAN for crying out loud.

And, I think it's not the fact that Supes and Lois has sex out of wedlock ( and hence, had a child out of wedlock ). While that can be considered more offensive to some, what is even more offensive is that Superman didn't even STICK AROUND in the relationship to support the woman he loves and his future child.

It's like......he had his fun, slept with Lois, and then.....poof.....he disappeared.
Yes, exactly!!
Quote:
And, as for Lois, it also sends the wrong message because she is lying to Richard ( making him think the kid is his ), and she is holding on to 2 men at the same time. She can't be honest with Richard and commit to him ( extended engagement ) because she is still in love with you know who....
Don't forget if Richard thinks it's his kid, that means Superman wasn't gone long (about 2 weeks, i'd guess) before she jumped in bed w/ Richard.
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But, the movie celebrates all that.......it treats all of that as ok....as casual la-dee-do.....The characters are never meant to feel the CONSEQUENCES of their actions.....There was NO SHAME OR GUILT PORTRAYED.....it just casually passes that behaviour as normal.....which, i hate to say, is reflecting more and more on our society.
And that really is the fundamental problem with the film, and why I have no confidence in the sequel. The tone of the film is that no of this stuff is wrong either morally or just a mistake. It's all treated so casually, there is no underlying message except. "Stuff happens, even to SUperman, because ultimately you can't be responsible for anything. Stuff just happens."

It's gonna be more of the same in the sequel. Except it will be like Jason and my 2 dads. I shudder to think about the ramifications of that.
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I mean, if you think about it, ALL OF THE PROBLEMS IN THE MOVIE WERE CAUSED BY SUPERMAN LEAVING. The complicated love triangle with Lois and Richard.....the issue with Jason.....Lex getting out of prison....Lex invading and burglarizing the FOS......Lex creating New Krypton and endagering all the people.......ALL OF THOSE ARE SUPERMAN'S FAULT!!!! IF SUPERMAN HADN'T LEFT IN THE FIRST PLACE, NONE OF THAT STUFF WOULD'VE HAPPENED!!
I agree. And he doesn't appear to learn anything from it, unlike the end of Superman 2.
Quote:
The problem is.....we didn't see any hint of remorse, or guilt, or shame from Superman. There was no scene in the empty, lifeless FOS, where Superman is reflecting and realizing the gravity and irresponsiblity of his action ( leaving for Krypton ). There was no scene where Superman questions his own competence as a SUPERHERO.....having created all of this mess. There was no scene where Superman realizes that, in his quest to find his home planet ( Krypton ), he forsake and abandoned his REAL HOME......EARTH!!!IOW, there was no hint that Superman felt bad or responsible for creating all this chaos.........

Such scenes would've been very powerful and emotional ( and would've been great opportunities for the audience to connect with Routh as the new Superman ).....yet, we got none.....

This movie was supposed to be GRAND AND EPIC......it had all the potential to be..........but, for me, it was merely SHALLOW AND HOLLOW......ultimately signifying nothing.
I felt very empty when I left. I also felt that the characters were flat and wooden. Such a shame...

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Old 11-01-2006, 11:26 PM   #119
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

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Given just how secretive Lois would have been about the incident, I doubt that Superman knew that he had impregnated Lois before leaving for Krypton. So I don't think he was irresponsible. Ignorant and foolish perhaps, but not irresponsible.
The real problem is that the movie does nothing to establish the context of the realtionship. We have to guess what kind of relationship Superman and Lois were in to understand it fully, and the fact that SUperman couldn't tell Lois he was leaving indicates it was not a serious and committed one. HEnce, the sex becomes irresponsible, especially if he's gonna leave that soon after having had sex with her. Plus, does she remember having sex w/ SUperman? WHat's in continuity from SUperman 2 and what is not. This is just poor film making IMO. You having to understand the context of the relationship to understand the motivations of the characters.
Quote:
That said, I do feel you have a point that Superman's absence allowed Earth to very nearly go to hell in a fast taxi. Realising this might not have occured to Superman while he was reestablishing himself on Earth. Dealing with Luthor probably did upset him (hey - didn't he go to a bar just before he saved Lois?).

But a more overt scene would have been a very good character-building one, I do agree. And we might get one, in SR2. I'd like to see it, quite a great deal more than I'd like to see a fistfight between Superman and someone else (NB - personal preference).
I actually felt for this story there needed to be more character confrontation/ resolution scenes instead of more action. THere was enough action, it was just action that really didn't move the story forward.

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Old 11-02-2006, 06:12 AM   #120
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

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Originally Posted by C. Lee
Everyone keeps complaining about them having unprotected sex.....he's a Kryptonian, she's an Earthwoman....the DNA should never have produced a kid in the first place...so there was no need for it.

Supes was a human being at the time, so their kid should be a normal human too.

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Old 11-02-2006, 11:29 AM   #121
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Supes was a human being at the time, so their kid should be a normal human too.
Just because he no longer had super powers...doesn't mean he was human. He was just powerless.


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Old 11-02-2006, 11:45 AM   #122
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Default Re: What should Singer do with Jason in the sequel?

Yeah, it didn't change his genetic make-up or his physiology, it just took away his abilities.

Jason should be taken away or something.

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Old 11-02-2006, 12:02 PM   #123
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Just because he no longer had super powers...doesn't mean he was human. He was just powerless.

Really? I'll have to watch that sequence again, I thought she specifically told Superman he would be a human.

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Old 11-02-2006, 12:11 PM   #124
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Yeah, it didn't change his genetic make-up or his physiology, it just took away his abilities.

Jason should be taken away or something.
I'm sure when they made Superman II they didn't really think about it too hard, how would they know anything would come of it.

I just don't see how you could take his powers away without his physiology changing. Earths yellow sun gives him his abilities strictly because of his alien physiology. So it only makes sense that if the sun has no affect on him, his physiology must have been changed.

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Old 11-02-2006, 02:27 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunk
Really? I'll have to watch that sequence again, I thought she specifically told Superman he would be a human.
She tells him he will be "mortal"....that the crystal chamber has harnessed the rays of the red sun of Krypton, and that once exposed to them "All your great powers on Earth will disappear."

Being exposed to the red sun's rays shouldn't be able to transmute his DNA from Kryptonian to Earthman...but it should be able to do something to his basic structure to make him powerless.

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