The Official Richard White & James Marsden Thread

[Dr.Dude]

I think the obvious thing to do, and not make for a depressing or spiteful sort of turn of events, is have Richard leave Lois... but in a friendly way, telling her that he knows she loves Superman, and doing what he feels like he has to do... for her.

He'd come off as a noble figure, and it would leave things open for Supes and Lois to come together --- something just rubs me the wrong way about the idea of them coming together if Richard dies, personally, but if they come together because Richard decides to let them... then it works.

[X-Maniac]

Richard White will die very suddenly early on in the SR sequel so that Cyclops will be in X4, okay....

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

Unfortuantly...if they want to try and stick to any comic book continuity....Richard has to leave in one way or another. I would prefer to see something halfway decent happen to the guy (all the calls for his death truelly astound me with their vitriol)....and have him live and walk away with some kind of glory attributed to him.

It makes Lois look like a creep if she dumps her for superman, especially with Richard thinking Jason is his son. Just give Richard a heroic death, that solves the problem, makes richard look good and noble and gives Superman a motive to really be pissed off and pound a super villain.

[04nbod]

maybe he'll die in the first 20 minutes and the screwing of jimmy marden will be complete. but seiously i liked him more than superman. i hope the writers have the conviction to be original and keep him with lois

[WhatsHisFace]

He can't become a villain. Just have him take off with another amazing woman when he learns about Lois' love for Superman.

[Moviefan2k4]

I actually like both James Marsden as an actor, and Richard White as a character. The whole deal between him, Clark, and Lois may be a huge bit of dramatic license, but it makes perfect sense for Lois to have moved on in 5 years. She clearly never expected Superman to come back, so she allows herself to fall in love with a man who can take care of her, no strings attached. Singer made a bold move with Richard White's story, and I think it paid off. Folks have to remember that, like Donner, Singer is trying to ground this new Superman film (and presumably any sequels) in a very believable reality base. One of my favorite scenes in the film is when Superman is rescued by Lois and Richard, then patched up in-flight on board the seaplane. Superman's powers are still very weak from the Kryptonite exposure, but as he turns to fly away and Lois looks at him, there's a moment when Richard looks back to see what's up. His expression says it all: "This is their moment. I'm keeping myself out of it, for her sake". You can tell he honestly loves Lois, and has resigned himself to the fact that she loves him too, but her love for Superman will always be on a different level.

To sum up this rather long rant, I think Richard should be in the sequel, and shouldn't be tampered with from his initial presentation. No villainy, no "home-wrecker" scenarios. Have him, Jason, and Lois be the "family", and leave Superman where he should be: always there if they need him, but remains committed to the world at large. Just my thoughts...

[romeogbs19]

Man, everyone is being pretty harsh on Marsden -- I think he was the best actor in SR, and came off the most natural. Admit it, Bosworth and Routh didn't deliver strong performances (though as I've said before, this is mostly due to craptacularly forgettable dialogue from Dan/Michael/Brian).

I agree killing him off isn't the best way to handle it. I think him recognizing the love between Lois/Supes/Clark is preferred. Having him die and then for Lois to leap into Supes' arms doesn't feel right. It also makes Lois look entirely too fragile, which as we saw in SR clearly isn't the way Singer wants Bosworth playing this part.

[ariellem]

Of the suggestions thus far - my own included - I'm leaning toward Richard staying with Lois/Jason for most if not all of #2. Clark/Supes will have to stay on the outside and earn his way back to Lois. In the meantime, give him someone else - Lana, or Cat Grant, or some new intern at the Planet, or several babes. Have them all be noble; have Lois start to feel guilty, if anyone. Figure it all out in #3.

[dude love]

How about Richard devorces Lois after Jasons death. Two birds just died with one stone.

[Cell]

I don't believe it's necessarily harsh or intrinsically negative to suggest a plot development that leads to Richard's untimely demise. It all depends on how the idea is implemented, certainly a sloppy or undignified death wouldn't work since we're dealing with a noble character.

The angle I think Singer should have played up when he introduced the character was the potential parallel between Richard White and Johnathan Kent. Both are noble fathers of adoptive children, and Singer failed in establishing a solid parallel when he decided that Richard White would not know Jason is not his real son. I really felt Richard should have known from the start (just as Johnathan Kent obviously knew), or at least suspected it, and for there to have been open dialogue between him and Lois on the subject in SR, including an open acknowledgment that Lois still has feelings on another level for Superman.

It would have rendered him even more noble if he were accepting of the situation, willing to raise and protect Jason as Johnathan Kent did with young Clark, in his real fathers absence. He'd gain even greater cred if he favored telling the newly returned Superman that he has a son, irrespective of his own feelings for Jason and Lois, simply because it's the right thing to do. This resolves any issues related to Lois being a liar, Richard a fool, or any of that.

All of it, as I see it, would be a set up for a selfless sacrifice on Richard's part, that >does< adversely affect Jason White's character. What would a young Clark Kent have done if a villain killed his adoptive father back-when? The situation would serve as the foil for Superman to swoop in and try to save his son from the 'dark side', and well, drama ensues.

[Hunter Rider]

Richard to me was the most likable and sympathetic character in SR,he makes the romance between Lois and Clark/Superman impossible to root for.

In the sequel what should they do with the character ?

Turning him evil will be hard and against the first movie's characterization

Killing him would seem a cop out

Keeping him alive and in the same role means the romance arc can't move on

Having him find out Jason is Superman's and trying to compete with him by getting power(i.e becoming Metallo) makes him even more symapthetic

[dark_b]

what singer did with richard in SR was amazing. i trust him.

[Showtime]

I think you make him evil all along if possible, maybe actually working behind the scenes with Lex through the guise of the Daily Planet. This strips him of the sympathy of the fans.

[El Payaso]

I think Richard is the kind of man who - after a period of grief and dissapointment - would raise Superman's kid even knowing it's not his own. His love for Lois easily compete with Superman's.

The real question is what Lois is going to do about him. I feel that if she'd find out Superman is Clark, things would be very different for her too.

But in no case to over-simplify things making him evil or killing him.

[dark_b]

Originally Posted by Showtime029

I think you make him evil all along if possible, maybe actually working behind the scenes with Lex through the guise of the Daily Planet. This strips him of the sympathy of the fans.

richard was soooo good in SR that if he would really be evil it would have a big impact. at least on me.

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by Showtime029

I think you make him evil all along if possible, maybe actually working behind the scenes with Lex through the guise of the Daily Planet. This strips him of the sympathy of the fans.

That would seem false to me though given the way the character came off in SR,it would be like they know they need to remove a more likable character than Supes

Originally Posted by El Payaso

I think Richard is the kind of man who - after a period of grief and dissapointment - would raise Superman's kid even knowing it's not his own. His love for Lois easily compete with Superman's.

That would mean we keep Richard as the true hero and relateable good guy of the movie and stop anyone wanting the Lois/Clark romance to happen.

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by hunter rider

That would seem false to me though given the way the character came off in SR,it would be like they know they need to remove a more likable character than Supes

There are only a few ways to go, and putting up an act pretending to be somebody else is done in movies all the time. It isn't that much of a reach.

Richard is supposed to be a human form of Superman why not make him "Bizzaro Superman" so to speak.

Also, there is nothing wrong with having a sympathetic character in Richard, he provides competition to the man of steel and a barrier for the Man of Steel.

The romance between Lois and Superman might not be where the writers go with this, the romance by start up with Lois and Clark himself, forcing Superman to reveal his secret. Better yet, maybe Richard figures out Clark's secret.

"Endless Possibilities"

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by Showtime029

There are only a few ways to go, and putting up an act pretending to be somebody else is done in movies all the time. It isn't that much of a reach.

Yeah it has been done before true but i just somehow don't think it would feel right,instead of feeling betrayed by the character i'd just feel the writers took a cop out unnatural twist

Also, there is nothing wrong with having a sympathetic character in Richard, he provides competition to the man of steel and a barrier for the Man of Steel.

The problem is he won that competition easily in SR,he shouldn't be more empathetic and likable and make you want to root for him more than Clark/supes,he should be like Harry from the start IMO

The romance between Lois and Superman might not be where the writers go with this, the romance by start up with Lois and Clark himself, forcing Superman to reveal his secret. Better yet, maybe Richard figures out Clark's secret.

If Richard finds out Clarks secret and then is cool with it then he becomes even more sympathetic,if Lois dumps him for Clark then she comes off bad so that leaves Richard then turning evil over jealousy of Clarks power perhaps ?

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by hunter rider

Yeah it has been done before true but i just somehow don't think it would feel right,instead of feeling betrayed by the character i'd just feel the writers took a cop out unnatural twist

Valid points, Mike and Dan have alot to think about.

The problem is he won that competition easily in SR,he shouldn't be more empathetic and likable and make you want to root for him more than Clark/supes,he should be like Harry from the start IMO

I think that was almost the point though, Lois doesn't need Superman any more because she already has her own in Richard. Whether was a good choice or not, depends who you talk to.

If Richard finds out Clarks secret and then is cool with it then he becomes even more sympathetic,if Lois dumps him for Clark then she comes off bad so that leaves Richard then turning evil over jealousy of Clarks power perhaps ?

I think they will explore the Clark-Lois dynamic more in a sequel, while distancing Superman and Lois, until he possibly has to save her at one point. He didn't save Lois personally in this one.

Who knows, the dynamic could be that Richard, Lois, and Jason are all like family to Superman and the Lois - Superman dynamic is held of until a possible 3rd movie. This is definately a different take.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by hunter rider

That would mean we keep Richard as the true hero and relateable good guy of the movie and stop anyone wanting the Lois/Clark romance to happen.

That wouldn't mean the Lois-Superman romance won't happen. As loing as Richard can't fly and stop bullets, we all know who the main role will be.

But considering Lois has demonstrated time after time she's more in love with the Super of Superman instead of the man behind the icon, I'm very much interested in having a hero who's brave knowing he can die. Now THAT's a true challenge for Superman, to show Lois and the world he's actually brave, and not only dares to defy his enemies based on the knowledge he's invulnerable.

Now if for keeping Superman image intact and the character untroubled, let's have a ugly jerk Richard who's no possible competence for Supes.

[darkseid26]

make him evil, lets find out maybe he is brainiac in descise,

that can be a reason he ask lois so many questions about superman, in sr. i vote make him evil .

[Hunter Rider]

Originally Posted by Showtime029

Valid points, Mike and Dan have alot to think about.

I really wish they had someone helping them.

I think they will explore the Clark-Lois dynamic more in a sequel, while distancing Superman and Lois, until he possibly has to save her at one point. He didn't save Lois personally in this one.

I like the idea of making more of Lois/Clark,she treat him like crap in SR

Who knows, the dynamic could be that Richard, Lois, and Jason are all like family to Superman and the Lois - Superman dynamic is held of until a possible 3rd movie. This is definately a different take.

The longer Richard remains as is the more he becomes the real hero IMO

Originally Posted by El Payaso

That wouldn't mean the Lois-Superman romance won't happen. As loing as Richard can't fly and stop bullets, we all know who the main role will be.

But considering Lois has demonstrated time after time she's more in love with the Super of Superman instead of the man behind the icon, I'm very much interested in having a hero who's brave knowing he can die. Now THAT's a true challenge for Superman, to show Lois and the world he's actually brave, and not only dares to defy his enemies based on the knowledge he's invulnerable.

Now if for keeping Superman image intact and the character untroubled, let's have a ugly jerk Richard who's no possible competence for Supes.

If it was just a romantic drama with original characters that might be interesting but for me keeping any Lois/Supes-Clark romance apart and making another character the true hero of the piece is bad idea.

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by hunter rider

I really wish they had someone helping them.

As long as Singer is involved he will be the only one helping Mike and Dan as he did in Returns. He has a story credit but not a writing credit. If WB forces their hands and brings in a consultant Singer most likely won't be a happy camper.

I like the idea of making more of Lois/Clark,she treat him like crap in SR

I think Lois has continually treated Clark like a 2nd hand citizen during the run of the Donner movies, up until she found out that Clark and Superman were in fact the same person.

The longer Richard remains as is the more he becomes the real hero IMO

I don't see Richard as the real hero in Returns, he couldn't have saved his family without Superman. I think he is an exceptional father figure to Jason.

[I_Hate_U_All]

Uh you do realize pryor's no longer with us, don't you HR?

As for what to do with Richard. I'm rooting for another vague history scenario in which charactes and plots from previous films are ignored. that includes Richard White. His mysterious absence from the last part of returns indicates to me that Singer didn't know what to do with the character after the whole superkid reveal.

[Justice Bringer]

Check my Superman Sequel Ideas thread ...

Richard breaking off the engagement with Lois. I think it would be the best way to deal with him.

I also made him take over Perry's position as editor in the second flick but in the end the Daily Planet gets destroyed.

Richard stays back in Metropolis to supervise it's rebuilding while Clark, Lois and Jason move to Smallville temporarily.....as Lex gains power in Metropolis and makes a threat to Superman against Jason's life.


Richard shouldnt die but its obvious his romance with Lois will end in the next film.

He should still be a supporting character in all three films I'd say.

I also say they should take a definative stance on whether Richard and Lois knew Jason was Superman's son all along.